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Author Topic: The Democratization of Blue-Blood Marriages - Why THOSE types of commoners?  (Read 990 times)
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misanthrocrat
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 03:57:29 am »

^Pippa's gun business?
It's a lot I don't know, apparently - but whatever it is, I am not surprised.

Without having any technical details about Middletons' business, something in this success story NEVER added up for me.
You start an online business with ...what? Paper plates and plastic cups for parties?...And you end up with the kind of fortune where you can keep your children in the poshest of schools, mingling with the highest of the high in the UK? All right, then.  

I find this rather...how can I put it...light.
Something desn't add up for me. I wonder what  reality lies behind this cute story of success whose believability seems to have been designed for IQ-s of 90 and below.

Curious to hear more if anyone has anything to add or link to.
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Rosella
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 05:02:25 am »

Michael Middleton's middleclass family were quite wealthy and successful, thanks to a legal firm in the 19th century and subsequent investments, plus marriage into the Lupton textile fortune in Yorkshire.  There was a family trust fund which paid for Kate, Pippa and James's educational expenses, including university.
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misanthrocrat
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2018, 05:15:23 am »

^ So the cost of private school was not covered from the "paper plates and cups" business.
 
They had such a significant trust fund from a 19th century generation yet they were originally working in positions such as "flight attendant" and "air trafic controller"?
At least, this was my understanding.
In all honesty, people who have significant trust funds dating back to the 19th century don't ever end up in such occupations. 

My knowledge may be very rudimentary but here's the superficial story the public knows: Middletons were middle class, regular people with full-time jobs.
Then they suddenly left their jobs to turn entrepreneurs and put together this "Party Pieces" business which made them rich. Yey.
People are aware of some vague discussions about Michael's wealthier roots but their position is advertised as largely "self-made".

Or maybe this is what Americans want to hear...

Nah. It still doesn't add up. 

 
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2018, 05:33:50 am »

Michael Middleton was going to be a pilot. He went to training school to be one, as his father had been. However, he switched to being a flight despatcher midway through the course. It was Carole Goldsmith who was a flight attendant. I don't know how much money the Middleton trust fund produced for the Middletons. I do know however that Michael and his brothers all went to Clifton public (private) school. Clifton wasn't a school for working class kids. I also know that the Luptons were quite an industrial and political dynasty in Leeds in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Their fortune and social doings are very well documented online.

  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8164731/How-a-Victorian-industrialist-helped-Kate-Middletons-parents.html
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2018, 06:06:22 am »

So not really self-made.

Well, this confirms my theory that a truly good life is NEVER made in one life span.
Just like "it takes a village"...it also takes a few generations with long-term thinking for that snow-ball to roll and finally be "fat and happy".
Success within one life span it's still a life of strife and struggle - regardless of the level of success attained.

It's gotta build up slowly, over a few generations. 

As cunning and scheming as the Middletons may be...goodness, did they play the cards right for their children or what.
You've got to give them that, as parents.
If we all had parents like this...well... I guess nobody would get anything done, so never mind. 

I just tend to take more dislike towards parents who unassumingly pour on children into this world, offer them the basics - roof and food - until they turn official adults, then wish them good luck on the job market, all while the world population and competition for limited resources is growing at dizzying rates.

I am a bit busier disliking this parental prototype than the planning, long-term thinking Middletons.
Well done there. That's all I can say.
   
     
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2018, 08:01:25 am »

The Middleton trust wasn’t that great and their initial PP success was due to ma Midds and her determination to rise above her sink estate and working class background.  According to those close and villagers she isn’t a very nice person, said to be quite nasty and for this reason gets so much flack at her social climbing skills and her lack of social graces.
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2018, 01:57:17 pm »

I truly think Carole wants her son James to marry a blue blood. So she'd have two such in laws in her family
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2018, 02:05:46 pm »

Of course. Carole only wants the best for her worthless spud and she surely has fantasies of creating a lineal MIddleton dynasty via her son.

The Middleton trust wasn’t that great and their initial PP success was due to ma Midds and her determination to rise above her sink estate and working class background.

Don't forget Uncle Gary funding their campaign for that ring via selling 'young and fresh' children and pushing drugs on people to create new addicts. Drug and sex trafficking money is ample and for some reason, William didn't think that there was anything shady about lots of money insofar as a lot of money was coming in.

So not really self-made.

Well, this confirms my theory that a truly good life is NEVER made in one life span.
Just like "it takes a village"...it also takes a few generations with long-term thinking for that snow-ball to roll and finally be "fat and happy".
Success within one life span it's still a life of strife and struggle - regardless of the level of success attained.
It's gotta build up slowly, over a few generations.  

As cunning and scheming as the Middletons may be...goodness, did they play the cards right for their children or what.
You've got to give them that, as parents.
If we all had parents like this...well... I guess nobody would get anything done, so never mind.  

I just tend to take more dislike towards parents who unassumingly pour on children into this world, offer them the basics - roof and food - until they turn official adults, then wish them good luck on the job market, all while the world population and competition for limited resources is growing at dizzying rates.

I am a bit busier disliking this parental prototype than the planning, long-term thinking Middletons.
Well done there. That's all I can say.

Truth be told, I admire how the Midds operate as one tribe and work like a team, but the thing is, that the Middletons will never let a successful person forget that they helped and there is always that hanging over Kate's head. Kate has had to help her family along and get favors and perks for them and frankly it's not like any of the three Middleton siblings actually stood on their own two feet. Kate was supported due to the belief that Kate would land the ring. Once she did, she was expected to help her sister along, she did, and I am certain that she didn't like it, but she owed her mother and siblings for all the help they gave and I am certain that they have never let her forget it.

Kate made sure her mother/father had the prime seats, made sure her brother and sister had prominent roles in the ceremonial, and made certain that she had her sister plan the wedding, made sure her sister was placed near Harry exiting the cathedral and on the balcony, then of course there were invites to the various state occasions and so on and so forth. Kate has repaid her family and worked to make sure that other royals attended her sister's wedding. It's not like Kate has been able to move on and leave her family behind and actually live a new life of her own.
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2018, 03:40:29 pm »

^
I see that - but I would not have considered normal for Kate to do that.
I consider normal for her to do exactly what she did and repay what parents have done for her. Yes, there are strings attached in this world - and this is fine. It makes for fine, mafia-like work and certainly places those who practice it at a serious advantage. More could learn. Individualism only works for those who promote it for others while they continue to practice the clan/tribal way for themselves.

For themselves, as a clan - the Midds played all of their cards right. To a T.

That being said, not in a million years do I believe that all of their pre-W funds came from some "trust fund" with roots in the 19th century and some profits from selling paper plates online. Because suddenly people couldn't go to the grocery stop to grab some there .? ...they decided to buy party paper plates online from the Midds, in drones?
That's weird no matter how you twist it.

There's more to the funds that allowed them to catapult their children to the U.K. Social stratosphere - which is more like the mother of all social stratospheres.
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2018, 04:35:52 pm »

It was not a sure thing by any means that Kate would "marry in." She had to go out and campaign to win William back. Every Thursday night like clockwork for a few weeks there she would be at a club, in shorter skirts with other men.

The Midds might have had hefty mortgages and I think Uncle Gary helped bail them out.
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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2018, 04:41:22 pm »

I'm not going to make a big thing out of it but be mindful that this is not the Middleton family thread.  Broaden the discussion, plz.  We've trampled the Midds talk to death.  Thanks, YM
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« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2018, 04:44:19 pm »

I'll raise another topic. In past times, would born in Princesses like Anne, Beatrice and Eugenie have been expected to marry aristos and not commoners? Would this be encouraged in the future for them to aim to marry aristos?
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2018, 05:35:27 pm »

I think so. Unfortunately a lot of the time, the Windsors themselves do not offer much in the way of proving that they'll become good spouses to live with. It would be rough enough having to deal with a loss of conventional privacy, but thing is, marriage to the royals as people themselves would not at all be appealing. Princess Anne has shown herself to take herself way too seriously (looking down on Diana for showing proper deference) and marriage to the Yorkies would strain any wallet and strain any temper. Throw in William and Harry and it's clear that marriage to them as people in themselves is something else.

The Yorkies have shown that they prefer a jet set lifestyle and expect to be taken care of in lavish palatial style. Just to provide what they are used to is going to cost a lot and that is money that too many billionaires work too hard for. As someone who is self made, a businesswoman, I can honestly say that it would cause HUGE resentment that having to work so hard and come so far, that with someone like a Windosr, I would be at square one with them in terms of the lifestyle I would provide. A lifestyle of opulence and extravagance is what the Yorkies are accustomed to and it would not impress them or make them grateful.

I just think that this recent generation has been badly raised and regrettably the older generation let them get away with things that never would have been tolerated in the older generation and never should have been tolerated. I often wondered WHY there were so many strictures and regulations against what we think of as 'normal,' but now I realize that given the immensity of the privilege and power they have the ability to wield, they have to be able to handle it from an early age. The Yorkies and Wales boys and even Anne's children were not at all required to show the respect that HM deserves and it has been a huge mistake.

The 'younger generation' of royals were allowed to have the relaxed standards of normal kids, but regrettably, they were not at all required to earn perks and even respect like normal kids. 'Normal' to them is life of the upper one percent, not the even higher level they were born at and regrettably they were allowed to mix with the jet set Eurotrash and mooch around and get a token 'education' and then proceed to just loaf around. None of them were told to get an education that would actually be useful to their role and that would present them well on the world stage and second, they were allowed to expect it all to be handed to them.

Given that the Yorkies expected to do duties (and little else) they both just loafed around as teens, did a routine university round of schooling, and then expected to graduate into doing jet set duties while getting millions from everyone around them. Frankly, I don't blame Charles for not wanting them to do duties and live off of him. It's not right that either get even more than they already have, which is more than most will ever experience in a lifetime. Imagine being married to either Yorkie and being expected to provide an affluent life that they're used to and being forced to support them after working many years to just build it for oneself.
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2018, 07:21:45 pm »

^
"The 'younger generation' of royals were allowed to have the relaxed standards of normal kids, but regrettably, they were not at all required to earn perks and even respect like normal kids".

Normal kids are no longer required to earn respect either.  Normal kids today are raised in horribly lax ways, by parents and community at large - which turns them into obnoxious, entitled, tiring brats. Most children are like this today if the yardstick is children prior to the 1960's. I am saying this as a parent who has often had to throw hands up in the air when my traditional ways were literally drowned by the "normal" ways of the larger community which children see, take notes of and internalize, regardless of the direction the parents set. I mean ...look at QE and her children, never  mind grand-children.  Why didn't they copy her? Because children prefer to copy the "spirit of their times" instead of their parents. 
 
The trouble is that instead of honoring and preserving the traditional, dignified parenting ways that have stood the test of time (101 duty for any monarchy) - these royals too, just like regular people, jumped on the bandwagon of modernity. Lord Forbid should they be considered "dated" by the new cool kids in town.

Great points about money too. Self-made money are hard money. You never forget the strain and fatigue as long as you live.
Even if you made them doing something you love and your business just boomed over night - the strife and sense of competition are still there. Never mind most self-made people don't make their money by ONLY doing things they love, every day. Never mind constantly trying to keep the competition and detractors at bay. 

I am not denying that living the jet-set, easy, ascribed-status lifestyle is not pleasurable. Anyone would want to live like this if they could help it because virtually everyone likes pleasure and no ones likes strife.
Exceptions include the rare driven geniuses who simply can't live without pursuing their obsessive passions - but even those get pleasure out of their behavior. Everyone else toils regularly because they must. Otherwise the overgrown organic human system collapses.  This is why it's called "work with a schedule". 

That being said, just because we would all go for "easy and hedo" if we had their chance, doesn't mean a self-made person would have to sympathize and tolerate "mooching off" from the few lucky ones.
It is nauseating and revolting for the person who had to strive for what they have (usually not that much). 
 
This is why I have ambivalent feelings about someone like Diana.

On the one hand, I cannot deny she had an adorable innocence, authenticity and ability to be herself exactly due to the fact that she never had to worry about a thing or compete for position or resources with anyone (unless you count the competition with Camilla over husband).
Her inherited privilege allowed her a perfectly secure, dignified life all while being a complete ditz. 
Being demolished as a result of comparisons with others never apply to someone like her. (They do apply to the rest of us).
This can make for a very refreshing, fun, sincere person to be around or look at. What you see is what you get.

On the other hand, I could never fully sympathize with or assign any sort of merit or sincere admiration to such people.
They are simply lucky creatures whom God chose to spare of strife for some reasons only He understands. So I choose to leave it at that.
But I don't LOVE God's apparent pets. Maybe they're not His pets but it sure does look like that from here.
The vast majority of humans don't love them either, even those who ooh, ahhh and go ga-ga over them, desperately wanting to convey they don't have a jealous bone in their body. 
When they do so, they simply express their subconscious fantasy that it could have been them.   
   
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2018, 07:34:25 pm »

The aristos who married into the family did see how large households were run and what servants were needed, customs and so on. It did stand them in good stead when they married in.
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2018, 09:17:34 pm »


At least an aristo would have brought knowledge of how to behave to the table. Kate and Meg are clearly uncouth and were not raised with manners.

Quote
On the one hand, I cannot deny she had an adorable innocence, authenticity and ability to be herself exactly due to the fact that she never had to worry about a thing or compete for position or resources with anyone (unless you count the competition with Camilla over husband).
Her inherited privilege allowed her a perfectly secure, dignified life all while being a complete ditz.
Being demolished as a result of comparisons with others never apply to someone like her. (They do apply to the rest of us).
This can make for a very refreshing, fun, sincere person to be around or look at. What you see is what you get.

On the other hand, I could never fully sympathize with or assign any sort of merit or sincere admiration to such people.
They are simply lucky creatures whom God chose to spare of strife for some reasons only He understands. So I choose to leave it at that.
But I don't LOVE God's apparent pets. Maybe they're not His pets but it sure does look like that from here.
The vast majority of humans don't love them either, even those who ooh, ahhh and go ga-ga over them, desperately wanting to convey they don't have a jealous bone in their body.
When they do so, they simply express their subconscious fantasy that it could have been them.   

I think Diana 'being her authentic self' was what was the reason she ended up dead prematurely. By 36 and at the time of her divorce, she should have  been more careful, but she made the mistake of throwing herself into another affair, this time without paying attention to the fact that she was messing with a married man. She had no business not doing her research and she had no business screwing a married man while believing that he would leave his wife for her. Then there was Dodi, who was engaged to a model Kelly Fisher; for some reason Diana was not viewed with disgust for messing with yet another established relationship. Being oneself is all well and good, but the thing is, that she wasn't growing up in ways that would have saved her life in the end. If she had researched the Fayeds and realized that Dodi was committed elsewhere, I am sure she might have thought twice about running around with him right away. Or if she had understood the trauma that Camilla caused her by being her husband's mistress, she might have understood what hurt she would cause someone if she had messed with Hoare. All she ever had to do was stop and think things through for once and decide to take the right path and choose to do thing that would cause the least amount of hurt to other people.

I also think that it is possible to be an authentic self if one decides to mature and grow up and think ahead and also stop messing with the lives of other people. Diana never learned that via being her 'authentic self' and that is how she kept getting into messes. There is a difference between being 'authentic' and being a mature adult and Diana never became the adult that she should have been by age 36, plus her experience. Diana was being immature and selfish, that is not being authentic (unless she was a fundamentally selfish and immature person).

Quote
"The 'younger generation' of royals were allowed to have the relaxed standards of normal kids, but regrettably, they were not at all required to earn perks and even respect like normal kids".

Normal kids are no longer required to earn respect either.  Normal kids today are raised in horribly lax ways, by parents and community at large - which turns them into obnoxious, entitled, tiring brats. Most children are like this today if the yardstick is children prior to the 1960's. I am saying this as a parent who has often had to throw hands up in the air when my traditional ways were literally drowned by the "normal" ways of the larger community which children see, take notes of and internalize, regardless of the direction the parents set. I mean ...look at QE and her children, never  mind grand-children.  Why didn't they copy her? Because children prefer to copy the "spirit of their times" instead of their parents.


Most normal kids do not have military trained security officers and do not have taxpayer funded private transport or are able to get oligarchs to give them free yacht trips. They also do not have the ability to get MI6 to give them info on people and do not have the ability to push the media  around via threats.

These royals have too much power at too young of an age and also too much money and too much adulation. Regrettably, they were not raised (at this critical turning point in history) to handle it responsibly and therefore, I am dead sure this is never going to turn out well. It never does. I understand now why the Yorkies are being cut out, mainly since it is clear that neither have any real work ethic, they are just drifting through life. Frankly I believe that none of the recent generation are equipped to handle a part time job, much less direct the monarchy. Clearly none of them have been raised how they should have and none of them are willing to learn anything.
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2018, 09:36:22 pm »

^ Unfortunately, the royal kids probably have all the looseness and self-centered-ness of the regular, modern kids + all the mega-privileges and perks you mentioned.
That makes for some perfect storm of "Mega-Yuck".

You are correct about Diana. My comments about her authenticity regarded mainly the way she came across on cameras, in interaction, etc.
She was not a fake. You did not feel that nauseating, hyper-competitive phony-ness and wannne-be-ism that most modern people either exude or are forced to put up with in their every day environments.
You see that syndrome perfectly in the body language of the likes of MM; or if you really need to sample closer to home, try a few "beloved" colleagues in the workplace.
They "How are You??!!!" their co-workers with the biggest grin on their faces, yet would love to back-stab you as soon as they get a chance so they can get ahead.

This nauseating vibe was simply not there when you watched Diana -  because she never competed in any way, with anybody, and she had NOTHING to prove.
This, in itself, can be incredibly refreshing in the modern world. 

You are correct, however, in pointing to her clear lack of maturity and wisdom. As I said before, she was, unfortunately, a ditz.
With all her status and resources, she might have enjoyed a really wonderful life eventually, had she played her cards better.

Oh, well.
     
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2018, 10:14:56 pm »

Diana wanted to remain an eternal ingenue and regrettably her lack of formal education is what resulted in her inability to learn and grow and mature. Her background as a teen bride was perfect and her lineage impeccable, but as life has shown, that means nothing after a decade of life in the wider world and a lack of education will trip a person up. I am dead certain that Diana would have been better off if she had just accepted that her ditzy days were at an end and if she had just chosen to start thinking before she acted and started thinking before she spoke out on anything.

As for anything to prove, you're right. She was working at a solid job as a teenager, she worked like crazy as a consort, and continued on when she was divorced. Thing is, that she should have proven her understanding of the pain of infidelity by not messing with men who were either married or already in relationships.
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2018, 11:22:54 pm »

Back then women of that set mostly went to finishing schools instead of University. The family that Diana and others married into were not exactly Einsteins.

Diana  was cut loose by the royals when her childbearing duties for the Prince were over (she was only 23). IMO anyway.

OTOH Alexandra a previous consort  was considered not that "brainy" but she did work hard, was a royal in her own right and her husband never dumped her for a mistress. She was allowed a large family and she was devoted to her children.

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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2018, 11:25:35 pm »

^Indeed

^^(Prefaced with this isn’t the PD thread either) but, Diana understood pain and was drawn to it.  Always was /would’ve been. Moth/flame.  She really couldn’t help herself.  She was, however, an anomaly the likes of which we will never see again.  She had everything except a willingness to play the marital game.  My .02 on PD.

We are still seeing the living results of the grenade Diana threw into that setup.  She is proof that modernizing didn’t work with this org. I’m not sure it ever will.  How much democratization will the BRF withstand before they are irrelevant?
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