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Author Topic: The Democratization of Blue-Blood Marriages - Why THOSE types of commoners?  (Read 999 times)
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misanthrocrat
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« on: December 13, 2018, 07:28:57 pm »

There has been a lot written about the democratization of Blue-Blood marriages. It started in the 20th century and has been growing ever since, peaking with MM.

We all know it is no longer uncommon for royalty and other "blue-bloods" to branch out of their natural circles to find partners. Not only do they do so but they do it   
with panache and showmanship, showing the world, from the top of their blue lungs, how democratic, inclusive and egalitarian they have become.

All right. Let's just say we all find this normal because, you know, 21st century.

Welcome to our world, the commoners!  And please, do have your pick. We have such a variety of options for you!

Now, I am not sure anyone has noticed this but there are many "walks of life" among commoners.
 
Commoners are not one monolithic, amorphic mass of identical souls, as the name seems to imply.
There are, in fact, numerous and very distinct hierarchies of substance among them.   

Some commoners have occupations that are particularly useful, noble and intrinsically admirable - considering how much value they add to life, every day. I'll call them Group A. 
Our world would be inconceivable without the incredible contributions of great engineers, scientists, architects, medical doctors, teachers, intellectuals, nurses but also many blue collar occupations. That's a fact - and not just some musings of "Enlightenment "thinkers.
 
Just the other day I was mulling over these very nicely-made kitchen gadgets I have (blender and a food processor) that literally allow me to do nutritional wonders at home in a matter of minutes. I couldn't help admiring the engineering minds that designed these fine gadgets and made them happen in my kitchen.
Never mind when I am in a plane. Good grief. Still can't wrap my mind around THAT thing. 

Then there are the type of commoners who function in Entertainment/ Mass-media / PR / Financial market related occupations  - without which society may be different (many argue MUCH better), but surely not unlivable. I'll call them Group B.
 
Entertainers, athletes, so-called "artists", photographers, journalists-turned-manipulators, talking heads, financial speculators, etc.
It is not unusual for such occupations to attract commoners of dubious character and vanity, without a whole lot of substance, and inclined towards NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). 

As a poster somewhere once very simply put it - I have needed a plumber, an engineer, a doctor, a teacher. I have never needed an entertainer, athlete or journalist.

So I have a question.
Has anyone noticed how these modern royal families INVARIABLY pick commoners to marry (and catapult to the top over night) from Group B but never from Group A?

How in the world do they end up with rugby players, celebrities, "artists", shady business people - but never with a doctor, professor or architect?

Granted - when you hear them speak, you kind of figure out why. 
Intellectually and morally, Group A would tower over them. They would never be able to able to live up to the standards of Group A. Which would make them feel more uncomfortable and insignificant than they've become accustomed to. 
So they find more compatible company in the clearly inferior Group B, to begin with. 

It is just so ironic that "Elites" who are supposed to be the supreme supporters of Excellence, Goodness, and Height prefer to associate and breed with shady commoner types as opposed to those who literally make this world a better place every day.
Genetically speaking, they are making a big mistake - unless the only genes they are concerned with are those that ensure tight, skinny bodies. 
 
Had they kept it strictly to their blue-blood silos, the old-fashioned way,  I would have understood. It's natural. We all mingle with "people like us" - it's our comfort zone. But why do they favor population B in the commoner world?     

Maybe it's because they've degenerated so badly and have distanced themselves so much from the Elite standards they are supposed to represent, that they are now only attracted to intellectually and morally inferior good-for-nothings and speculators.
Since in our corrupt word, these are the types who can bring in a significant enough extra buck to the Royal Wallet, through financial speculation or selling crap or illusions to the stupid masses - that's even better. 

They are simply attracted to their inferior commoner equivalents.
 
As a monarchist, I could not despise them enough. 
 


 
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 07:44:57 pm »

^ Queen Maxima of the Netherlands worked in the private banking sector for years before her marriage and works for the UN in the area of micro-management of funds in the Third World. She was marketing manager for a private bank in Europe and the US. Queen Letizia of Spain was a respected journalist in Spain and filed reports at times from war zones. Queen Mathilde of Belgium worked for many years before she married as a speech therapist in her native country. These are just three off the top of my head who went from university into professions. I'm sure there are more, especially in the Netherlands royal family, but haven't time to look it up.
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 08:10:06 pm »

Banking, journalism, etc.
I place that in Group B.

I am not arguing those are not legitimate occupations where work actually happens. It has to because people are given things to do, regardless of how they get a paycheck. 

I am  simply pointing out to a much more nuanced aspect of "commoner substance".

Those are not necessarily occupations reputed to attract the highest breed of commoners. Not if you look at complexity and difficulty of the profession, requirements for perseverance, strength of character and long-term commitment.
 
Many park themselves in "interim" occupations until they stumble upon a sweet marriage situation (usually women) or a major amount of money made fast via financial  speculation (usually men).

Generally speaking, the highest profile blue-blood marriages I see are those with commoners having had some activity in Group B professions - never in Group A.
Until they step into a sweet lifestyle and then they turn Charity Belles.

 
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 08:44:48 pm »

Quote
Some commoners have occupations that are particularly useful, noble and intrinsically admirable - considering how much value they add to life, every day. I'll call them Group A.
Our world would be inconceivable without the incredible contributions of great engineers, scientists, architects, medical doctors, teachers, intellectuals, nurses but also many blue collar occupations. That's a fact - and not just some musings of "Enlightenment "thinkers.

Thing is, people with these amazing careers do not want to leave them to walk two steps behind a man/woman and basically be ornamental. It takes a HUGE amount of self sacrifice and the rewards once they pay off become too good to throw away. Medical doctors, nurses, and architects study like crazy and frankly they don't want to just toss it all away. Respect and prestige come along with it and a lot of doctors would lose respect, hard earned respect if they were to quit for a prince. They also prefer to enjoy a life that doesn't bring them into contact with too many princes. Royals these days prefer the jet set hot spots and prefer to live a life of partying. You don't see partiers in medicine and architecture (at least not in the way that royals party) and too many royals are far too vapid.

^ Queen Maxima of the Netherlands worked in the private banking sector for years before her marriage and works for the UN in the area of micro-management of funds in the Third World. She was marketing manager for a private bank in Europe and the US. Queen Letizia of Spain was a respected journalist in Spain and filed reports at times from war zones. Queen Mathilde of Belgium worked for many years before she married as a speech therapist in her native country. These are just three off the top of my head who went from university into professions. I'm sure there are more, especially in the Netherlands royal family, but haven't time to look it up.

True, but Mathilde was the only one with a noncontroversial past and she was titled already before her marriage. Maxima's father was part of an elite that made up a junta that imprisoned and tortured others while Letizia was formerly a republican who marreid another man in a civil ceremony and then divorced him.
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2018, 05:32:43 am »

^ Thank you for your thoughts, Kuei Fei.
To be honest with you, I would have to respectfully and gently disagree that type A commoners would never want to leave their amazing careers for which they studied and worked like crazy (they do indeed) just to go be a royal. A "mere" royal. blink)

Perhaps few realize that there is such thing as the glamorization and idealization of professional life.
First off, there's not a single professional in this world today who does only things they are passionate about or for which they feel drive, intense interest and pleasure all the time.
Ask doctors how much time they spend actually practicing medicine and taking time with their patients and how much of it is just rush, stress, paperwork, electronic records, etc. Ask teachers how much time they spend actually teaching and how much they have to deal with bureaucratic guidelines, paperwork and discipline issues, e-mails. A good chunk of most professionals' work lives today involves answering useless e-mails.   Most are overworked, overpstressed and would retire quickly if they could.

Even assuming that some of these professionals have a perfect position where they get to do mostly what they've trained for and dreamed of.
Believe it - it gets old. Even the most glamorous, high-skill career gets sour at some point when you have to deal with it day-in-and-day-out.
Moreover, such people are always trapped in a career trajectory that must be followed without interruptions. They tend to be strongly penalized, professionally speaking, if they take breaks from it.

Speaking for the US at least, have you noticed how few older doctors are out there? Most push hard while they're reasonably young so they can build a large nest-egg and then get the H out.
The professions are no longer the brainy-glamorous occupations they are perceived to be.    

They're increasingly difficult with ever more requirements, require enormous exertion for too long, and they are drowned in ugly bureaucracy and high stress.

I can guarantee you there would be plenty of such Type A people who would happily leave their professional life behind to go have a royal one instead.

That being said, given how royals have degenerated - as you correctly pointed out to their vapid, jetset, partying lifestyles - such Type A people would probably not find satisfactory company in royalty. And the other way around.
My point was that these populations are now more incompatible than they've ever been.  
 
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2018, 04:00:36 pm »

I blame the royals, not the 'commoners' for this. With their resources, they should be better educated, better traveled (not just to the jet set locales), and better behaved. As for the stress of a top level career, I give you that, but really, better than being treated dismissively as a vapid ornament and not a respectable part of any team. Imagine being a brainless ornament and being that way for the rest of one's life; after adolescence, it can cause serious problems mainly since they never are able to grow into fully well rounded adults. I believe the royals of this generation are not willing to work twice as hard to prove that they have the smarts and ability to help run things. They stupidly want the perks and trust handed to them without putting in hard work to actually earn that trust, much less be taken seriously.

These days, most heads of state come from modest means, are twice as smart, and of course have had to work ten times as hard just to earn a degree, much less end up getting elected and living half as well as a born royal has. It's not like a born royal has shown that they have the zest to learn and cultivate themselves and it's not like they are willing to do what it takes to look after their country's interests. People with genuine drive and self respect are too busy building their lives just to get to square one and I am dead sure that it would be tiring being a 'support' system to someone who never had to think hard, much less work hard for all they have. It's not like the royals run the country (with the exception of the Arabs) and it's not like they even have to fend for themselves.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2018, 03:34:25 pm »

It was odd that William and Harry were not involved with other European princes and princesses and appeared to be isolated unless there were big events where they only saw the other royals briefly.  So any chance of them marrying princesses from other countries was greatly reduced. Plus aristos did not want their daughters to be humiliated like one of their own (Lady Diana) was and did not encourage marrying into a family where the mistresses trashed the wife and ultimately ousted them. So therefore the commoners were chosen as brides. One did not have any proper job and was treated as the "vessel" who "might" marry a royal if she was available near the phone all the time for his phone call.
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2018, 03:42:16 pm »

Neither prince want to bother trying to build ties with their titled European peers. Neither bothered even learning much about them and it is clear that each prince thought that they were entitled to have eligible women shipped in for inspection and it is clear that as a result, only women like Kate and Meg were willing.
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2018, 06:16:54 pm »

It was odd that William and Harry were not involved with other European princes and princesses and appeared to be isolated unless there were big events where they only saw the other royals briefly.  So any chance of them marrying princesses from other countries was greatly reduced. Plus aristos did not want their daughters to be humiliated like one of their own (Lady Diana) was and did not encourage marrying into a family where the mistresses trashed the wife and ultimately ousted them. So therefore the commoners were chosen as brides. One did not have any proper job and was treated as the "vessel" who "might" marry a royal if she was available near the phone all the time for his phone call.

Hmm.That's an interesting angle. I didn't realize these guys may not have been as popular in Aristo circles.

Then again, they had their pick from the tremendous variety of commoners...and boy, did they pick or what.

Commoners have not all been created equal (despite what the US Constitution would have us believe  pinocchio )
 
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2018, 08:01:20 pm »

I think neither prince were wanted mainly since their life's path was so different; more aristocratic women (almost all really) are career oriented and it's not like they all want to go out boozing/clubbing in their twenties. Second, the BRF has become notorious for their mistreatment of consorts. Third, Camilla got the ring and so it is an established fact that mistresses can not only get away with tormenting the wives and driving them out of their church sanctioned marriages (while having the blame heaped on them), but in time the mistress will get the ring, the tiara, a blessing, then a PR campaign to begin abusing the rep of the previous consort. So really, what possible benefit is there to dating either prince, much less marrying one of them? When you throw in the abuse that any woman would get if she didn't fit the fairy-tale mode, it is something that certainly would incur the abuse of the press. Remember, once Kate latched on, the press made it clear that she was THEIR choice and anyone who dared even SPEAK to William would get flamed and of course, if the woman in question was titled, said woman would be driven out of the nation.
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2018, 08:22:02 pm »

I remember Hello Magazine had an open letter to William begging him to "Take Kate back."
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2018, 09:15:09 pm »

More aristocratic women (almost all really) are career oriented and it's not like they all want to go out boozing/clubbing in their twenties.

I agree with the second part; I highly doubt the latter.

Aristocratic women whose families still have significant wealth are not knocking down the doors of "professional life".
I am not saying they may not employed in socially sparkly, largely hedonistic, light-weight type of occupations (Art curation, PR, Media, Journalism, Fashion, Modeling, Event Planning, Politics, etc).

I just do not believe any aristocratic women invest in intellectually demanding careers.

All careers have not been created equal. Just like commoners. blink)

Serious professions that provide heavy value to society involve years of maximum exertion and tedious, steady, rigorous toiling.
They are exhausting and not glamorous at all.
Just because they are not done in a coal mine doesn't mean such careers don't border downright slavery.

You won't see any aristocratic woman going into medicine, science, engineering, law, research, academia - and developing a serious career within  these parameters. The reality is these are too difficult. And who wants to live difficult lives other than people who have no other route for upper social mobility?
These are your middle and upper-middle classes with cream-of-the-crop genetics and who can withstand the rigors of tough careers in exchange of a chance to build wealth and solidify status.

There are extremely few people who go into these heavy-weight professions purely for passion.
If that was so, you would see some aristocrats having a go at them too.
I am yet to hear of a surgeon or engineer with aristocratic roots. 
   
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2018, 09:32:08 pm »

Fully agree, but thing is, that these aristos do not need a prince to secure their own financial future and I am certain that at this point, royals in Europe do as the press tells them and the press wants the fairy-tale, not someone who inspires actual respect. When the press is outright ordering William to take Kate back, it is celar that these titled women wouldn't stand a chance. Life is too short to put up with press abuse and by god, the press and public wanted that fairy-tale! There was no way that the press was going to allow Jecca or anyone else to interfere in their idea of a genuine royal romance.
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2018, 09:45:54 pm »

^ Very good points. I can absolutely see that.

Would the public want to see an aristo marrying a surgeon or some girl "next door" (who may have also happened to make some money, somehow - her or her family).  

I have noticed there's a widespread perception among the masses (particularly in the US) that individuals in heavy-weight and relatively well-paid professions like medicine and or law are "the rich / the upper classes".

Many are so far from the upper-middle strata, let alone the actual upper classes - that they lump together the two categories calling them "the rich".
Never mind there is a world of difference in lifestyle between these two categories.
  
    
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2018, 11:51:50 pm »

^^^ 'Yet to hear of a surgeon or engineer with aristocratic roots?

Dr Penelope Law is consultant obstetrician and gynaecologist at the prestigious Portland Hospital in London. She is also the Countess of Bradford.

Lady Katie Percy (the daughter of the Duke of Northumberland, served an apprenticeship at Purdey's, the leading British gunmakers. Apprenticeships in Britain take years to complete. That requires precision and engineering skills. She later became a self-employed gun stock maker.

The heir to the Duke of Gloucester married Dr Claire Booth, from an old country gentry family in Cheshire. She is a paediatric consultant, with MBBS, MSc and PhD degrees.
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 12:25:49 am »

Good point. Lady Kate Percy is someone who would have been ideal, or Jecca, but these days, the press wanted a Hallmark fairy-tale and with the fairy-tale narrative and I am certain that as long as this fairy-tale BS narrative is allowed to become part of reality, royals will never be able to find and date and eventually marry someone of quality. With the modern mentality, Princess Diana never would have been able to marry Prince Charles, she would have been driven out of Britain since the tabloids would NEVER have wanted a tall, blonde, blue eyed titled lady with only a finishing school education. Oh no, the press would have demanded some snotty university graduate with as slatternly a past as possible and would have demanded that Charles marry some physicist who he had nothing in common with.

^ Very good points. I can absolutely see that.

I have noticed there's a widespread perception among the masses (particularly in the US) that individuals in heavy-weight and relatively well-paid professions like medicine and or law are "the rich / the upper classes".

Many are so far from the upper-middle strata, let alone the actual upper classes - that they lump together the two categories calling them "the rich".
Never mind there is a world of difference in lifestyle between these two categories.

Thing is, a prince can only go so far down and they have more free time than the usual career focused young women and so therefore, the only monied types they meet are either socialites or they're vapid airheads who have parents who will pay for them to be able to chase a prince or they're Sofia types.
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 01:35:43 am »

^ Rosella,

Good to hear. Then these people are symbols of what aristocracy ideally should be.
However, this is not what the modern public sees about aristocracy nowadays.
Who in the world has heard of Lady Kate Percy? Maybe we should have.

In a technologically advanced world, anyone who is not the actual monarch in the business of ruling, should be doing something of real value - not just being a charity belle or playboy with panache, "championing" causes.
By the way, how much effort or brain does it take to "champion" something? How about doing it directly? 
 
Given the resources the aristocracy has access to - not just wealth to catch you if your endeavors fail and ample time for growth and self-development, but also access to breed with the best genetic stock possible - given all this...they could have turned themselves, as a group, into models of excellence in society.
It's good to hear of cases who choose to do so.

Most, however, don't. This is why the best they can produce, generally speaking, is charity belles and beaus - many with "dumb" written all over their face.
 
I don't have empirical data and statistically significant findings to back up my statements, obviously; but I would go out on a limb to argue most are the kind I mentioned, not of Lady Percy's kind.

Kuei Fei nails it, as usual.
It's all about pleasing the modern, democratic crowds who demand their Hallmark Fairy-Tale in the age of unconditional egalitarianism.
They didn't use to. They knew people in high places typically marry other people of high caliber.   
 
Now, the dumb public revels in real life stories where good-for-nothings giant-climb through "serendipitous" (to be read well-planned) encounters with princes or princesses, which saves them from an undignified, meaningless life - usually a natural result of their own mediocrity or sub-mediocrity.   

Fueling such illusions and encouraging fraudulent social climbing at the societal level is very toxic.
 It causes nothing but massive social unrest, distrust, cunning competition and ultimately, a miserable life for most people.


   
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 02:20:07 am »

The Percy family of Ailnwick (Harry Potter territory) are well known in Britain. Kate Percy and her sister Melissa were part of the young royals' circle. She and Melissa and her husband Valentine were seen quite often with them at social events. Her brother George, Earl Percy, was equally well known as a friend of Pippa Middleton for many years since their university days together. Chelsy Davy (Harry's ex) and Kate were bridal attendants at Missy Percy's wedding when she married Tom van Straubenzee (one of the Cambridge children's godparents.) Harry was a groomsman at that wedding.

Aristocrats, both British and otherwise, aren't one big homogeneous lump. There are some who are wastes of space, some who've achieved quite a lot in different spheres and others who work quietly for many years trying to preserve the estates and country houses their ancestors built up centuries before. Gerald Duke of Westminster for example was an achiever.  They are certainly not all 'dumb', nor, would I suggest, are the majority.
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 02:28:51 am »

^That’s a very small bubble, really.  It’s unfortunate that these remarkable people do not receive the same level of global acclaim vs someone swinging in on a wrecking ball.  The social experiment we are experiencing now negates any hope of that changing anytime soon, sadly.
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 02:34:58 am »

Yooper, at some point this kind of situation becomes unsustainable. What still shocks me to the core is how low William fell compared to how he might have been, how good he might have had it.

Quote
In a technologically advanced world, anyone who is not the actual monarch in the business of ruling, should be doing something of real value - not just being a charity belle or playboy with panache, "championing" causes.
By the way, how much effort or brain does it take to "champion" something? How about doing it directly?

Ironically, in the pre-Georgian/Regency era, heirs to thrones were among the most heavily educated in the world. Many knew multiple languages, memorized philosophers, spent a lot of time outside of the court running their own principality (living at Ludlow, Wales, as the usual places where princes of wales would go) and learning how to handle officials. When they were at the main court, they would defer to the monarch/consort and make a show of respect and deference. It seems to me that it all went out the window once the Hanoverian era commenced and heirs to thrones just got into the habit of idling around making a mess of their private lives. That is why they were educated in their palaces, so they could learn the relevant topics while avoiding the distraction of the Middleton types. They knew the value of their role and learned accordingly and willingly.

Quote
They didn't use to. They knew people in high places typically marry other people of high caliber.  

Comes as a kind of comfort that people married at their own level and second, with the way people of good merit can move up in the world, I am dead certain that this is how most revolutions are avoided. I am also certain that if William and Harry had been raised right, they would both be better men. I'm just glad we're past the era when women could only move up via marriage, via a 'good marriage.'

Quote
Now, the dumb public revels in real life stories where good-for-nothings giant-climb through "serendipitous" (to be read well-planned) encounters with princes or princesses, which saves them from an undignified, meaningless life - usually a natural result of their own mediocrity or sub-mediocrity.

I wonder how different things would be if the palaces did not hide the ugly pasts of these consorts. It would have been intriguing to see how the public would react if they knew all about Kate's yacht days, or Pippa's gun scandal or perhaps they knew about Kate's Uncle's business dealings in full. Or maybe about the reality of the 'family business' that keeps the Middletons in funds.
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