Royal Gossip
July 25, 2017, 01:41:07 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 22   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: British Royal Finances  (Read 40350 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
spookyboo
courtier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 449


Long live HRH King Henry IX


« on: November 10, 2010, 05:55:04 pm »

the Express - ROYAL BLOG: GEORGE OSBORNE'S BLUNDER OVER QUEEN'S INCOME

Quote
CHANCELLOR George Osborne thought he was being clever linking the Queen's future income to the Crown Estate but he has made a big mistake.


Under plans announced in the Government's October 20 Comprehensive Spending Review, the Royal Household's income will be linked to a percentage of the profits from the £6.6 billion property empire, which nominally belongs to
the monarch.


I say nominally because since 1760 the profits from the Crown Estate have gone straight into the Exchequer under the terms of a deal agreed between George III and his ministers. In return, since 1760, the Government has paid
the monarch an annual income, known as the Civil List, to cover the costs of being head of state.
READ MORE
Logged

Loyal Harry-ite#8
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 06:05:28 pm »

The way I see it, this way of funding makes her financial business simpler, no? easter-think
It looks to me as if she'l be a share holder in 'crown estate inc.'!  tehe
If their annual profit is high she'll get more if it's low she'l get less.
Sounds fair to me!  thumbsup
Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35764


Moderator/I'm so royal I piss blue


WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 08:45:44 pm »

Queen’s windfall pay deal will be capped after claims Chancellor's austerity formula was actually worth more

Quote
The Royal Family’s new funding formula will be capped, after complaints that the change could see a huge rise in payments to the Queen.

Chancellor George Osborne unveiled the new scheme last month, claiming future payments to the Royal Household would be tied to profits from the Crown Estate’s £6.6billion property portfolio.

The plan was initially to give the royals 15 per cent of profits from the Estate, the proceeds of which currently go to the Treasury.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332171/Queens-pay-capped-claims-Chancellors-austerity-formula-worth-more.html#ixzz16EcT0KQ8

Yeek. Why do I think that all this is happening because of Kate? Initially there was no complaints from politicians, now there is a cap.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 01:45:24 am »

I noticed some interest in royal finances so I decided to make a topic on it.

Let's start with HM and her income.
HM has two main sources of income: the annual donation from the government called the Civil List and the income she gets out of the duchy of Lancaster.  
Now the Civil List is a construction that was invented when George III handed over the Crown Estates to the government because he was unable to manage it himself, (he nearly went bankrupt due to mismanagement of the portfolio!) in return for managing the estates the government would get the surplus they got out of it and give a certain part to the monarch as allowance (pocket money if you will).  
The amount of said allowance was discussed and decided in parliament every ten years.
Recently there has been talk about changing that system because they found it annoying to have the same long discussions in parliament every ten years!
The new system would become simpler and fairer, in short: instead of a fixed amount every year that is reviewed every ten years, the monarch would receive a fixed percentage of the yearly income of the Estates, so if the income is good she will have more and in poor years she will have less. (Personally I think that is a good system thumbsup)

The Crown Estates has a large portfolio that includes:
Urban estate (big parts of West End London and parts in other mayor cities belongs to the Crown Estate, 75% of the total yearly income of the CE is made out of this part of their portfolio! :eyes:)
Marine estate (according to ancient law the first 12 nautical mile of seabed around the UK belongs to the Crown),
Rural estate (146000 hectars of agricultural land, mines, residential property and forests in England, Scotland and Wales)
And last but not least, Windsor estate (6300 hectares consisting of Windsor park, the Ascot race court, and other properties in the Berkshire county)

The urban estate makes most of the money from office (101,3£ milj) and retail (80,9£milj), basically they own the building and rent it out to firms and shops in London and other cities like Oxford.
They have mayor interests in shopping streets like Regent street and Picadilly and own a part of Bond street. (it's a bit like the game monopoly, I guess easter-lol)

The marine estate get their main income out of dredging (17.5£ milj) and coastal (13.6£ milj), they own a lot of harbours and marina's around the English shore.
Another part of there effort in the marine estate goes to renewable energy in form of windmill's. that part of the portfolio has grown hugely over the last couple of years: nearly 45% to 2.6£ milj! (yay good for them and the planet!)

The rural estate consists manly out of agriculture (17£ milj) and residential property (5.1£ milj)

The Windsor estate has residential property (1.9£milj) and Saville garden and building (2.1£ milj) as main parts of interest.
That last part is a fancy title but mainly means the money from the entrance tickets from opening up parts of Windsor park to the public and the prices for passes that allow you to ride on horseback in parts of the park .

Well that's a short overview to Crown Estates the first part of HM income
for more details check out the Crown Estate website: http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/annual_report/overview/index.html
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 05:12:34 pm by Alexandrine » Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35764


Moderator/I'm so royal I piss blue


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 04:34:52 am »

CRIKEY! That is a HUGE chunk of change. If HM has managed ot stay in budget for as long as she has, she will be off of taxpayer living (removing a lot of scrutiny) and go figure, she will have so much more to work with.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 03:03:25 am »

Ok so now I'm gonna explain the duchy of Lancaster.

The Duchy of Lancaster, now this thing started waaaaay before the Civil List,
In 1265 to be exact, when king Henry III had a dispute with a couple of his vassals.
He fought them, won the battle and as punishment seized their lands and gave them to his youngest sun Edmund.
After approximately a hundred years the estate was know as duchy of Lancaster and the grandson of Edmund, called Henry (it was and still is, quit a popular English name) became know as the first of Duke of Lancaster  wellduh.
It was a very wealthy (read large) body in the kingdom and after 50 more years, in 1399 the second duke of Lancaster became king Henry IV.
From that time on al the reining monarchs automatically inherited the duchy.
The duchy at this moment owns appx 20,800 hectares (80.3 sq miles) of land across England and Wales. (To give you an idea of the size, the city of Amsterdam is 84.6 sq miles!)
It consists of historical buildings, urban development, farmland and 'places of natural beauty' (I didn't make that up, it says so on their site!)
It's split up into 5 parts called surveys named after their geographic placement, so we have:
Lancashire survey: 5 estates between Lancaster and Preston, good for 4.650 hectares
Yorkshire survey: 5 estates between Pickering and Scarborough, the major part of the duchy nearly 6,900 hectares of land, part of it is a moor
Crewe and South survey: 5 areas good for nearly 6,200 hectares.
Needwood survey: used to be a large forest that over the ages was turned into farming lands covering a bit more then 3,000 hectares
Urban survey: The main urban holding of the Duchy of Lancaster is the Savoy Estate. This is the single most valuable block of property in the Duchy of Lancaster. It's situated near the Strand in London.

I'm gonna continue this tomorrow, ok guy's, it's nearly 4 at night  (again X-Mas_rolleyes) I'm sleepy!  Kiss

Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35764


Moderator/I'm so royal I piss blue


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 07:23:37 am »

I sometimes think that if the RF detailed expenditures, there would be a lot less criticism. I mean, a huge problem comes from the public not knowing how the money is spent. If the Palace showed how much they are spending in regards to trips, security, and explained that the Foreign Office provides an allowance for clothes for foreign tours (as they do to all heads of state and spouses), then there would be less resentment since people would understand more about the workings of the government. And about the workings of all the other issues surrounding the running of the monarchy.

If they did a comparison/contrast chart and showed how much the monarchy spends and how much the govenrment spends, there would be a lto more understanding as well. If the monarchy can stay within budget and maintain themselves, then the monarchy will be of good value. It will prove itself. The monarchy MUST stop pretending they don't have to justify themselves. These days they can bypass the press and go straight to the people.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Alexandrine
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13926



« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2011, 03:02:20 pm »

^^
Really? I thought that the BRF had to say where they spend every penny of the money they receive. At least in my country it is used as an example of how royal finances should be controled. The SRF recieves aprox 10 millions euros and no one knows where it goes.  wopedo
Logged



“Three things are to be looked to in a building: that it stand on the right spot, that it be securely founded, that it be successfully executed.” ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35764


Moderator/I'm so royal I piss blue


WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2011, 07:17:01 pm »

I od'nt pay all that much attention to the finances of the BRF, but if they do publish it, they should spend time marketing the details to combat press/republican criticism.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Yooper
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11112


Moderator


« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 10:27:26 pm »

All I know, from far too many years of experience, is that no one (except Lee Iacocca) ever comes in under budget. In fact, looking back? Whatever I've been told I expect at least 25% overage. And that's with Darth Vader as the comptroller, so expect deception, or more diplomatically, discrepancies. I'm referring to the wedding costs here.
Logged


\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\"  Thomas Jefferson
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 04:37:21 pm »

euhm I thought that first I'm gonna list the income and then the expenses...
It's as important to know where the money comes from before you search what it's being spend on.
You can find that info, it's all published, (if you know where to look for it. hall-whistle easter-wink)

So back to the duchy of Lancaster, I told you what it is and how it started, now I'm gonna give you some numbers to go with it, ok!

In the end of march 2010 the duchy had £350m of net assets under their control, both in property and financial investment
It can be divided in rural estates, urban estates and development land.
This chart shows how the mix changed since 2009 
http://www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk/upload/asset_mix.gif

As you can see the financial part got smaller and that the rural and urban estates became more prominent.
They reinvested in safer options like farms and real estate rather then risk money on the exchange market! (lesson learned after the collapse in 08 I guess thumbsup)
Here a graph that shows the changes and growth of assets over the last decade. (yikes 09 was not a good year for HM!) current assets is actual cash money!
http://www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk/upload/asset_growth_net.gif

While reading through the financial info I noticed something odd: the value of the Duchy portfolio grew but the net income went down!
Here have a look: http://www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk/upload/Financial_Results.gif

The net revenues from the property and investments are paid to the Keeper of the Privy Purse, the member of the Royal Household who manages HM finances. Revenues presented to HM are currently in the region of £13.2m per year.
HM is not entitled to the Duchy's capital, nor it's profits because the Duchy needs to provide income for future generations of HM's in this case Charlie and Will's, (It's not Lilibet's money it's money for 'the King' or 'the Queen')
The Duchy of Lancaster does not pay tax, but the income receivable by the Privy Purse (read, what they give to HM) is taxable, after the deduction of official expenditure.
So she does pay taxes and a lot of it if you ask me! (£13.2m income can you imagine how much you have to pay on that!  Shocked)

So to conclude HM's yearly income lies by aprox £43.2m (£30m from civil list and £13.2m from Lancaster) that she still has to pay taxes on!

Coming up next, her expenses.....
You can run but you cannot hide, I will find your little black book HM !  easter-lol

 Kiss
Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 09:12:42 pm »

grmbl  pc-problem  hiss
Ok I'm a bit annoyed at the moment, I'll tell you why.
I went to the main page for the British monarchy  in search for HM expenses, you know the actual numbers.
And what I found....well it was a bit disappointing to be honest.. thumbsdown
I did find a summary of expenditure for the year 07! (that's old) and it really doesn't tell you that much.. :(  (it's like a two page pdf file! X-Mas_rolleyes)
I'll give you the link but it looks as if I have to dig a bit more on this
http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Annual%20summary%20of%20expenditure%202006-07%202.pdf

I'm not giving up on this tough !
Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 10:36:47 pm »

hmm OK 
I found some info on property-in-grant a yearly balance report for the year 07 (I know it's old but at least it's something)
The Property-in-grant seems to be an additional government funded source used for the maintenance of the buildings of HM.
In short it's the department of Culture media and sport who give them yearly funds to cover the costs of the Public Royal Palaces like Windsor castle, BP, CH and SJP and part of it's staff. (neither Balmoral nor Sandringham fall under this fund, as they are private family estates)
This report is a loooong pdf file (46 pages) and it's rather dry stuff  wellduh study 
But I'll give you the general idea..
Ok so, in '07 funds: £15.2m, expenses: £14.5, a saving of £ 0.7m   thumbsup
They managed to stay well within budget and looking at the years before they usually do so!

'06 funds £15.1m expences £14.3m, saving £0.8m
'05 funds £14.5m expences £13.9m, saving £0.6m
'04 funds £16.0m expenses £15.2m, saving £0.8m
'03 funds £15.4m expenses £15.6m, saving -£0.2m (oopsy, I wonder what happened in that year?)
'02 funds £15.5m expenses £15.4m, saving £0.1m

I'm rather impressed by this to be honest, they are doing a very good job, the palaces look amazing and as far as I can tell they managed to save mainly on heating and electricity costs which means 20.7% less carbon emissions thumbsup (I bet Charles will love to hear that easter-lol) and not on staff payment or basic renovations/repairs needed in the castles.


Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2011, 06:18:19 pm »

YES! Sing hallelujah!
I found it! 2joy
Thank you Google  worship
Aha! woot woot! Spooky-bat easter-bunny

http://www.monarchist.org.uk/#/royal-finances/4544581968
This web site gives us a full report of HM's finances from the year '09 (starting from march 2009 till march 2010)
You can download the 5 parts of the annual finance report in pdf file (which I did)
So I'm gonna  study it very carefully and of course give you gals the short version of the whole thing ok!  thumbsup
 Kiss
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 06:45:41 pm by akasha2411 » Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
Yooper
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11112


Moderator


« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2011, 06:54:50 pm »

Thank you, Akasha!  Very informative.  I'm assuming that any overrage goes back into their general fund.  They must amass a great deal of interest.  Good job!!!
Logged


\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\"  Thomas Jefferson
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2011, 08:57:44 pm »

Okidoki let's get started! 'rubs hands together'

So the annual financial report has five parts:
1. Introduction and overview
2. Civil list
3. Grand in aid Royal travel
4. Grand in aid Maintenance
5. Appendixes

Lets start at the beginning
The first page of the report shows us a picture of a smiling HM with above the picture her weapon 'dieu et mon droit' on a lovely Bordeaux coloured background and the title 'Royal Public Finances: annual report 2009-2010 (looks rather nice if you ask me  flirt)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i462/akasha2411/firstpageannualreport.png
(I know I know, you guy's don't read this for the pics, but still...)

Then we get a graph that shows us where the public money comes from and how big each part is in the total, for the last 5 years
You can see that Civil list and the grands in aid make up a good 90% of the total funds given by the government, for a total of £38.2m in 2009.
Which is less then the two years before.
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i462/akasha2411/expendituremetfromPF.png

Euhm on a side note
Has anyone of you ever wonders what HM duties where?
I now know the answer, it's in the report! lols (William read carefully! You'll need to know this one day!)
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i462/akasha2411/queensduties.jpg




The rest of the introduction and overview part is mainly text not numbers, they explain each part of the public fundings, what it is used for and who is responsible for what part.

I already explained the finer details of the Civil List to you guy's before so I won't repeat my self here.
In the rapport they also make specific mention of the fact that the money from the CL is not used for other members of the BRF.
The Duke of Edinburgh has his own public income which is set apart from the civil list, it's called a Parliamentary Annuity.
The Grands in Aid, yes there's more then one, three different ones to be exact: the GIA for property service, the GIA for royal travel, the GIA for information and comunication
The Grand in Aid for Property Services money comes from the dep of Culture, Media & Sports and it's used to meet the costs of the maintenance of BP, SJP, CH, KP (Kensington Palace), MH (Marlborough House) the Royal mews and Windsor castle, but you already knew that part. (that is if you read my other posts)
The Grand in Aid for Royal Travel get the money from dep of Transport  wellduh to cover the costs of official (work) travel by air and rail (so not if they go to Switzerland to go skiing or something)
The Grand in Aid for communication and info receives there funds from parliament (they don't mention a specific dep) to meet the cost of the Press Office and the websites.
The last small part is called 'Expenditure met directly by the government and the Crown Estate', it's a long title for 'other public funds' and it's mainly smaller amounts and services that can't be put under either of the above like military assistance during state visits (not exactly travel or communication, right! TCP baking cookies) or the maintenance of Holyroodhouse (because it's in Scotland and they've got their own parliament so..)

So let's get to the numbers
The Queen's CL:             £14.2m
Duke of E annuity:          £0.4m
GIA property:                  £15.4m
GIA Royal travel:             £3.9m
GIA comm& info:             £0.4m
Other PF                         £3.9m

Total public funds:        £ 38.2m

So now we know their budget in total (38.2) let's see how much they spend, whether they are able to keep in budget and what exactly they spend it on.






« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 11:40:15 pm by akasha2411 » Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
True Brit
Duchess
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4434


« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2011, 05:08:33 pm »

 thumbsup Good stuff.

Here's a few items I bookmarked and forgot about but of great interest.

http://axiomatica.org/revealing-the-matrix/royal-families-and-elites/1159-the-crown-jewels-the-queen-is-the-ultimate-insider-trader

This one gives some background to how almost bankrupt the RF were after the War

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dab07c16-ecb2-11dc-86be-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz1DPeeiqxs

There has been a new development which has turned the clock back 300 years by giving the RF a slice of the Crown Estates income and no questions asked. It won't be scrutinised by Parliament and I believe this to be a very bad development

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=517003&in_page_id=2

As does the author Doug Sanders (scroll down it's the second story after a long one on the EU)

http://dougsaunders.net/page/4/

The RF is quite simply stinking filthy rich. And when people on other forums start saying stop moaning they bring you in tourism money they are a) not there to promote tourism and b) why are people on low, average or even no income expected to give money to the fabulously wealthy? This is goingt o come to a serious crunch probably when HM passes away. The staggering thing is the Crown Estates agreement went through Parliament without a complaint.

There is a Republican movement which has started up and they are challenging this sort of thing

http://www.republic.org.uk/
Logged

" Kate, Pippa and Carole Middleton seen at Manolo Blahnik today.. overheard asking if they carried shoes for cloven hooves. "
YooperModerator
Super Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12923



« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2011, 11:39:26 pm »

Well True Brit my dear
It seems we are at the opposite sides of the table when it comes to the Crown Estate slice!
I mean for years I've heard ppl complaining about how much the Queen costs to the public and how they should change the system of the Civil List.
And now that they are about to change it it's not good either?
You can't please everyone it seems!
What would you perfer then huh? You want her to work for free?
That she gets no part at all from the Crown Estate?
An estate that belonged to her family for so many centuries!
She represents the British ppl just like your PM and mp's do, you would want them to do that job without payment as well?
Because you also pay for them with your tax money you know! (and they are by far more expensive than one King/Queen!)
Let's not forget that it was her ancestor who handed it over to the state willingly 300 years ago, they didn't have to!
And remember that without it the British government would lose a lot of income from the profit of the estate (neary £2bn)
I think it's more then fair that she get a share of the CE, she works hard enough for it!
Logged


\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
True Brit
Duchess
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4434


« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2011, 03:27:14 am »

Akasha you are missing a very vital piece of information here. The Crown Estates do not belong to the Queen's family. The title may well say Crown but the estates belong to the people of Great Britain. Prince Charles has been pushing the line that his family and not the people own the Crown Estates for the past twenty years however there is a major constitional problem with the RF claiming it is theirs when it is not.

These estates date back to William the Conqueror who, as ruler of the land, appropriated (stole)vast amounts of land from the existing landowners in the name of the state and they have remained the property of the state ever since along with the Church lands impounded by Henry VIII etc etc. The monarch and the state were, at this stage one and the same and the rents were used to run the country, finance wars etc etc.

What has changed is the monarch and the state are now not the same. We have an unwritten constition and a constitutional monarch as  symbolic head of state and symbolic keeper of the estates. When George 111 gave up the Crown Estates it was because he was broke and a hopeless manager and he gave them to the Govt and the nation in exchange for a generous stipend (the Civil List) which would give him a much greater income than the rents. Even at this stage the separation of state and monarch wasn't as it is today and he still wielded considerable power.

It's only in the late 20th century that these rents have become big money spinners with high value properties across the West End etc and the income has grown exponentially and thus have caught the attention of the Royal Family particularly after the 1950s when the Queen Mother was almost bankrupt. Various Govts allowed a secret deal with the Windsors which allowed them to build up a fortune and avoid taxation. Doubtless PoW would have taken up the torch at his Grandmother's knee. Although many eyebrows raised when this came out in the press a few years ago I think most people agreed with the principle that it was  ajust reward for George V's selfless rule throughout the war. That income has helped them build up vast personal fortunes. As I said before they are filthy rich.

However, it was the PoW who began plugging the line that the estates belonged to their family and they repeat this on the various web sites that its is their hereditary estate. I suspect the spectre of near ruin is still clear in the family memory and my own feeling is the monarchy may be coming to an end and they are intent on shoring up their financial position whilst they can. I feel it's no coincidence that it is PoW leading the charge as his position is in question what with Camilla and his increasingly eccentric ways - not to mention his political interference. For instance he took himself off to the European Parliament (uninvited) on Wednsady to address them on climate change and exprssed his admiration for the EU - which is not a reflection of the UK public and Parliament tonight voted against an EU ruling.

It has been the work of Sir Michael Peat (recently retired) who saw through the recent changes giving the RF a share of the Crown Estates income and reduced Civil List. When he first raised this in 2001 there were a number of people onto him.

In the New York Times Dr Joanne Horton, an accounting expert at the London School of Economics called this claim “propaganda” and “a public relations stunt.” She was not the first to see things that way. In an internal Treasury memo in 1952 a senior civil servant, Burke Trend, wrote that “ … the hereditary revenues which it is now customary for the Crown to surrender at the outset of each reign are simply a historical relic from much earlier days.”

The writer who uncovered this memo, Phillip Hall, calls the arrangement “historical fiction.” He notes that the Estate only belonged to the monarch when the monarch was responsible for all civil government expenses, which ended at the end of the 18th century.

And yet the wily Peat managed to make this arrangement with George Osborne the Chancellor of the Exchequer. There is even talk that they used the Royal Wedding as a smokescreen to sneak it through. What's wrong with it? Apart from the Windsor claim that it's their family heritage any payments are to be given without any scrutiny by Parliament so they can spend it on anything they like Ferraris for Kate and William; mink blankets for the corgis - I know I jest but the reality is they should be open to scrutiny in their contract with the British people but this is turning the clock back over 300 years and is positively feudal.

There's much much more to it than this and I will share with you the reasons why PC has pushed so hard for this but that's for another post and I am away for a few days. However read the above links and google The Queen owns the seabed" as to how anyone can claim to own the UK coastline and 12 odd miles of the seabed all around is just risible but the Scots Nats are already kicking off about that one.

It is a fascinating and complex story of which we know a fraction and please be careful of their official websites etc as they are carefully revealing only what they wish us to know and nothing more. Afore I go I have great admiration for the Queen and PP. They have given fantastic service to the nation and of course they should be well remunerated for their public service. It's what comes next that's the tricky part.

Hope this helps us all develop a good and well considered debate and greater understanding of our monarchy.  thumbsup

Logged

" Kate, Pippa and Carole Middleton seen at Manolo Blahnik today.. overheard asking if they carried shoes for cloven hooves. "
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35764


Moderator/I'm so royal I piss blue


WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 06:30:54 am »

To me, restoring the Crown Estates would once and forever shut a lot of ingrates up. On the other hand, Parliment having control over hte income does act as a check against the RF acting up.

Lets go with two options:

1) The Crown Estates: The benefit would be that the RF will operate on a budget that is strictly under their control, ensuring that they will have to run things more responsibly and look after their own affairs and pay themselves for the upkeep, giving them more ownership and funds with which to work, letting the RF repair things wihtout going ot Parliament cap in hand. They would have more money at their disposal and it would ensure that they could deal with problems like maintenence discreetly and immediately, preventing HM from having to ask, especially during these hideous economic times.

The problem with it, is that the Civil List deos act as a leash that ensures the good beahvior of the RF and ensures that if they act out, Parliament can bring them into line and make amends. It also ensures a lot of accountability and that money is being spent where it should be spent.

2) The Civil List: Again, the benefit is that the RF is kept in line via Parliamentary grants. The problems come when a palace needs to be properly repaired and the RF goes cap in hand, but there is an uproar. BUT it constantly exposes the RF to accusations of parasitism and other stuff that always escalates during bad eocnomic times. The RF is often impaired from doing their job, soemtimes via cutbacks and the constant pressure to produce, but with the barest possible minimum.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 22   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines | Imprint Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!