Royal Gossip
November 25, 2017, 01:48:23 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Should the Mainstream Middle Class Be Rescued or Made to Sink?  (Read 1589 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 36263



WWW
« on: August 01, 2016, 02:51:41 am »

This has been on my mind and chest for a long time and basically I want to get your views on this topic.

Everyone says we need to save/rescue the mainstream middle class from oblivion and basically do what we can to bring jobs.

To be honest, I'm all for letting the mainstream middle class sink or swim. I don't like how the mainstream whine about people on welfare being dependent on the government, but want the government to create laws and policies to protect their interests.

They want student loans forgiven, but keep taking out massive loans for prestigious schools that won't really do much for them after graduation. It's not like graduating from Harvard will end up with them being on the Social Register or going to society balls. Getting worthless degrees.

Blame Obama and the government for allowing easy loans, although no one FORCED them to take out huge loans and basically get houses and cars they couldn't afford otherwise. Maxing out the credit cards for designer gear; Fendi and Versace aren't utility companies.

Bashing people on food stamps and whining about not being able to pay for food despite making 50K a year. If they didn't insist on living in a 100K house, they would be able to afford food.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
kolkomilko
Duchess
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3193



« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 08:02:44 am »

It is a very good topic and interesting, too. Unfortunately I can't speak on it because I am not British or American and things are different here. I'll read it with pleasure. 
Logged

Maya
courtier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 371


« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2016, 08:21:10 am »

Thanks for posting this topic Kuei Fei as it's something that has been concerning me too.

I believe the issue is not so much the aspiring social groups but the social group who have already made it through inherited wealth and monopoly of vast resources.  While those in the middle and base of the hierarchy are clamouring over limited resources those at the very pinnacle of the pyramid have it quite cushy.

People, especially the middle middle, are sold a lie that a good university place is all it takes to get ahead in life. This as real life teaches is not the case. Taking out student loans in the pursuit of knowledge merely makes the rich, richer and those beneath the 1% indentured for life.

Knowledge is power and the less knowledge people can afford in a consumerist society the better it is for the already wealthy. While the majority of the middle are concerned with hoop jumping - get the BA/BSc Hons - and that used to be enough to score a good career, but now entry level is a Masters, so pursue a Masters degree. Then PhD because a Masters is no longer good enough for entry level etc - the real cabal is laughing openly about how much money they are making at the middle middle's expense.

IMO the modus operandi is to price the average person out of the education system because an educated workforce is a workforce that knows it's own value and will be combative about demanding the right worthwhile price for its own labour.

I very much grew up with the idea of knowledge for it's own sake rather than in the pursuit of a specific career, it's a modern invention that a degree will lead to a good career and a false promise as the number of vocational graduate level jobs out there has stagnated if not diminished over the years.

IMO what Veblen would refer to as 'conspicuous consumption' the brand name goods, the big house, the fast car is what the truly wealthy prey upon - social unease. The middle middle strive to be seen as 'good enough' or to 'fit in'. For the multi-billionnaires this is a good thing, as unease is profitable and the more this can be preyed upon the more profit is generated for their global conglomerates.

It feels that society is not only at the moment inherently corrupted but becoming increasingly feudal with people  separated into two strata: the 1% of multi-billionnaires who are always avaricious for more than their fair share and the 99 % who are left over taxed and under the cosh of the system.

IMO soon something has to give a good old dose of common sense is needed.
Logged
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 36263



WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 05:21:06 pm »

No one is making people keep up with billionaires or get noticed or anything like that. Billionaires don't make people do things they don't want to. No one MAKES a person max out a credit card for designer gear, no one MAKES someone go to a school they can't afford and it's not the fault of a wealthy person if someone wants to spend more money than they bring in on a large house. No one makes someone go to Harvard and get a useless degree or spend their time boozing. It's not like anyone is making the middle class do much of anything. Ironically, a lot of wealthy people live a low-key life that prevents them from becoming a target. The mainstream middle class is not a class of hapless unthinking victims.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Maya
courtier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 371


« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2016, 06:12:21 pm »

I have to disagree Kuei Fei corporations spend millions of pounds/dollars per annum on changing the way people think and spend their hard earned cash. Those corporations who employ PR and Advertising execs are...well generally there is a multi-billionnaire somewhere behind it.

Normative values, the way society is structured especially wealthy societies with their complex social structures coerce people into certain lifestyles and in order to 'belong' to a certain social strata it's necessary to share similar income brackets and shared values. There's something called the National Readership Rankings which may be of interest:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRS_social_grade

The government census carried out every ten years in the UK calcifies these ratings further social demographics are big business, the class system is still alive and unfortunately well in the UK.

What I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that human beings are social animals who constantly seek confirmation of being among 'the same' rather than 'different'.

I've read New York Social Diary Kuei Fei, seen rich kids of instagram I don't think that's living life under the radar and being low key. Especially while a large proportion of society in the UK is using foodbanks.

There's some interesting articles out today concerning the scam that is higher education and student debt that is forced upon the young.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-01/college-isn-t-always-the-way-to-get-ahead-it-s-a-way-to-not-fall-behind

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3716814/Wages-graduates-don-t-justify-huge-university-fees-unless-doctor-dentist-Oxbridge-says-report.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36916009

As an insight what it's like in the British education system, I can speak for no other country but my place of birth, students are taught to aspire to top universities, to achieve good grades, to expect that if you fail to attend university then you have failed at life. This is of course a lie, but increasingly it's more challenging within UK society to get ahead so to speak. There were reports recently that the millennials will be worse off than their parents generation financially and in many other aspects of their lives. 

I'm not sure how the subprime mortgage scandal worked itself out in the US but I know in Britain that we the taxpayer bailed out the banks, helped out multimillionaires and were rewarded with austerity and higher rates of taxation on the average joe. If by middle class you mean the upper middle classes who benefitted from this bail out then I'm with you all the way I'm tired of the whining by those who consider themselves poor on £100k per year + bonuses. But I don't blame the squeezed middle when the super rich have grown richer than at any other time throughout history.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2016/01/62-people-own-same-as-half-world-says-oxfam-inequality-report-davos-world-economic-forum

Unless you're a billionnaire Kuei Fei - and good luck with that if you are - you're being screwed over like the rest of us.

Logged
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 36263



WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 10:26:53 pm »

Bill Gates isn't deciding how I live my life. Aspire like crazy, but be realistic about how to get there. This mentality that you need to spend money on appearances to get ahead is a myth. I get testy when the mainstream middle class bashes people who are on welfare or down on their luck or homeless.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Rebecca
Baroness
***
Online Online

Posts: 640



« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 04:36:31 am »

Thanks for posting this topic Kuei Fei as it's something that has been concerning me too.

I believe the issue is not so much the aspiring social groups but the social group who have already made it through inherited wealth and monopoly of vast resources.  While those in the middle and base of the hierarchy are clamouring over limited resources those at the very pinnacle of the pyramid have it quite cushy.

People, especially the middle middle, are sold a lie that a good university place is all it takes to get ahead in life. This as real life teaches is not the case. Taking out student loans in the pursuit of knowledge merely makes the rich, richer and those beneath the 1% indentured for life.

Knowledge is power and the less knowledge people can afford in a consumerist society the better it is for the already wealthy. While the majority of the middle are concerned with hoop jumping - get the BA/BSc Hons - and that used to be enough to score a good career, but now entry level is a Masters, so pursue a Masters degree. Then PhD because a Masters is no longer good enough for entry level etc - the real cabal is laughing openly about how much money they are making at the middle middle's expense.


IMO the modus operandi is to price the average person out of the education system because an educated workforce is a workforce that knows it's own value and will be combative about demanding the right worthwhile price for its own labour.

I very much grew up with the idea of knowledge for it's own sake rather than in the pursuit of a specific career, it's a modern invention that a degree will lead to a good career and a false promise as the number of vocational graduate level jobs out there has stagnated if not diminished over the years.

IMO what Veblen would refer to as 'conspicuous consumption' the brand name goods, the big house, the fast car is what the truly wealthy prey upon - social unease. The middle middle strive to be seen as 'good enough' or to 'fit in'. For the multi-billionnaires this is a good thing, as unease is profitable and the more this can be preyed upon the more profit is generated for their global conglomerates.

It feels that society is not only at the moment inherently corrupted but becoming increasingly feudal with people  separated into two strata: the 1% of multi-billionnaires who are always avaricious for more than their fair share and the 99 % who are left over taxed and under the cosh of the system.

IMO soon something has to give a good old dose of common sense is needed.

I agree 100%.  thumbsup thumbsup
Logged
kolkomilko
Duchess
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3193



« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 08:35:33 am »

^^ I see this point of view and I agree with you.
Logged

Maya
courtier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 371


« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 05:54:35 pm »

I understand where you are coming from Kuei Fei and I respect your point of view, I can agree that I have no time for anyone who disparages another because of their means or lack thereof.

There's a sketch from the '60s which is famous in the UK called the Class Sketch which is painful in it's being so axiomatic even today:

The Class Sketch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c

@ Rebecca thanks!  flower
Logged
Dark_Destiny
royal watcher

Offline Offline

Posts: 43


« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2016, 10:41:10 am »

Thanks Kuei Fei. This is an interesting topic. I had the same debate with my collegue at work.

I don't live in America so I am unsure of what the system for midldle class benefits are. However I speak universally when I say I believe every citizen is entitled to an education and access to health care services free of charge no matter what country I live in. If I am made to work hard and pay tax, I think I deserve to get my share of benefits for it.

When I attended Primary and High school, my education was was partial funded by the government and my parents forked out the rest. However when I chose to go to University, I took out a loan provided by the government to pay for it. At the time, I fell for the assumption that everyone needed a University degree to get a good job. Of course, after graduation, I found that my expections of what is "skilled" did not match those of my potential employers. I blamed my University for not providing courses that are in line with industry expectations and skills. However, despite my regret with my choosen degree, I am dutifully paying my loan repayments. Unlike my collegues at work who refuse to pay their student loans because they believe it should be free.

Never the less, my work collegues and I would like to have these student loans on offer when our children decide they would like to attend University. Though I doubt it would be on offer because I can't see how the government can pay for our education if we are not paying the loan back.
Logged
Ariel
Duchess
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2200



« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 05:19:20 am »

I still think that prestigious universities are  the way to go. they put you into the right environment of future professionals who are going to be your contacts tomorrow. Big unitiversity's name has opened the doors to a top 20 Fortune 500 company... fresh out of university. Even though it cost me a fortune to attend it and even though it took me years to graduate because I didn't go the student loan route and worked my way through school. Whether the university prepared me for the corporate world or not is up for debate but it opened doors for me and taught me resilience and perseverance. So at the end of the day - the expensive universities are worth it.

As for the reckless loan taking of those who want to think they are middle class but are not - it's really a problem with lack of financial culture. The chances are - your family might not have financial acumen and may not have it in them to teach you how to handle money, but there are books. So many books that teach you how to budget, how to think and how to be strategic with your finances. If someone doesn't read they are at the perfect ignorance level to become slaves of the banks. It's a choice that many people do without  even knowing it. Why? Because they don't read. Someone tells them - go to university, take a loan, do this, do that ... and they just listen. They don't challenge the advice, they do not look for alternative ways to reach their goals, they do not learn agility.
Logged
Kuei Fei
Princess
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 36263



WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2016, 04:00:44 pm »

As for contacts, I think LinkedIn works just fine and frankly the big names are overrated.
Logged

To receive regular news, go to "@gossippsychotic" to get updates from various other gossip websites such as "Downtown Chatter" or "Royal Gossip Psychotic" and end up reading all about all sorts of peccadilloes.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines | Imprint Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!