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Author Topic: Diana, Tiggy and Charles  (Read 4437 times)
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Jane23
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« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2013, 03:19:38 pm »

^ I think it was because they were friends of C & C waaaaaaaaay before Di was even a  teen ...but mostly it might have been because Di I mean the real Di was a nightmare behind close doors and it only got worse as time went on no one had time for that mess.
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« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2013, 03:44:33 pm »

Jane, I really object to you calling Diana 'that mess'. If your sainted Charles hadn't treated her with utter contempt, she would have had a happy marriage, and would probably still be here now.

No, she wasn't perfect but neither am I and neither are you. I think it is time you considered the whole picture here, instead of picking and choosing the bits you want and painting Diana like Godzilla. She wasn't.
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« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2013, 03:57:58 pm »

Not all friends were ok with Camilla and possibly many more still only accept her because she is married to Charles if he would have forgotten her, she would be yesterday's news.

Camilla's humiliation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-324169/Camillas-humiliation.html

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« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2013, 04:04:50 pm »

^ I think it was because they were friends of C & C waaaaaaaaay before Di was even a  teen ...but mostly it might have been because Di I mean the real Di was a nightmare behind close doors and it only got worse as time went on no one had time for that mess.

How do you know? Every strong woman who has tried to accomplish or improve has been called a b*tch.

C&C were trying to discredit Diana so that no one would believe her when she said they were having an affair.

Why would you choose to believe their campaign propaganda when history shows that they were having an affair?
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« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2013, 05:01:51 pm »

Sandy, I too agree with a lot of what you say, but other parts I don't and can't. 

What totally confuses me, and always has done for as long as I have been grown up is why Charles could not love this saintly goddess who could apparently do nothing wrong whatsoever.   Please, anyone - grant me an explanation as to why the most wonderful woman in the world ever to have existed could not hold the love of a man.   Why did Hasnat say one man could never fulfill everything she needed.  Why?  Why if there was nothing wrong with her?   Even if there was something wrong with, and in honesty I do tend to think there was - it would not define her entire persona in a negative way - it sure would explain a lot.

Some of you place her so high above many many wonderful women who wouldn't stand a chance of getting away with many of her antics - why?   Because of the wonderful things she did?  I do not discount those things.

Why does no one see she made shocking mistakes herself?

I don't discount what she did do.   I am trying to understand this woman who I perceive as being far more clever than she is given credit for.

Please put Charles et al aside - I had opinions on him and his now wife, this is not about them.  I would like to understand her - and without giving lame excuses for some of her behavior that was totally out of line. Period.  huh



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« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2013, 06:00:34 pm »

I dont think Diana & Charles had any chances since early on for simple fact he was courting her out advise of his mistress (& in his own words the woman he loved & was/is in love). They were doomed since before the engagement. He was looking for a broodmare. IMO he left this very clear in Dimbleby book. For me what existed between he & DIana was the typical the older man led on the naive, virgin & inexperenced girl. IMO If Diana, at least, had one real boyfriend before Charles I do think she would never get invoved with him. How she said Peter Settelen she was pushed to Charles ("It's like being sucked in... just people pushing and then people pulling, all in the same direction. "Yeah, my family thought it was great, and so did my friends, and so did, um, Charles's family.) And Charles was driven to her by Camilla. Words of Lady Fermoy.

About Khan I havent idea what you're talking about he never told this and yes on contrary (he was after her via phone when she was in ST Tropez with boys but she dont answer his calls and in end July when was back from an weeekend in Paris with Dodi she broke off with him and he tried call her when he saw Diana with Dodi in news but she had changed her phone). He never talked with none biographer or in any doc. The first time he talked was in inquest via two statements. What he says totally is the contrary what you quoted him.

Quote
say one man could never fulfill everything she needed
THis indeed remembers me the spin in many books about Diana (ie.Tina Brown book) she couldnt/can not have normal relationship with man because she was damaged person since her childhood and because she never get over Charles. But Khan isnt quoted he never talked with anyone else.

----------------------------
on topic:
My says on Tiggy:
I believe she genuinely love the boys. I dont think Diana was this paranoid related to Tiggy. Then why Camilla loathes Tiggy? I dont konw if (believe) what existed between Charles & Tiggy was merely platonic. Camilla isnt idiot she knows very well when there's danger around.

I think, if there wasnt that law the boys belonged to the crown (in others words: Diana could lost access to her sons), Diana wouldnt care a bit about Tiggy and her "the boys regarded me as sort of surrogate mother" talk.

The Eton ep. I think William disinvited Diana & Charles for the lunch is more related the they be famous and William wanted be "normal" as his mates & with Charles & Diana there will be alot more photographers than only Tiggy. I think in this way because in his confirmation for what I remember he choiced this be in Windsor Castle than in Eton because he dont liked the attention in be different of others boys. Was this I read in time. I dont think the behavior of William was this anormal for a teenager. What I think sad is since that time he havent outgrown this.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 06:06:59 pm by dianab » Logged
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« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2013, 06:24:35 pm »

^ I have always wondered why Charles friends did not  like Diana. Surely they could all see the injustice of it all. At most they should have remained neutral. It was really not fair on Diana most of the things that went on. And the women in Charles circle of friends are stupid. How could they take Charles side knowing that he was cheating on his wife. Did they not put themselves in her shoes? How would they have felt if it was their husbands cheating on them. I just don't understand. Is it because of what they stand to gain by being friends with Charles?
They are a bunch of syncophants. In addition to be friends of Camilla too. They always were in know of affair since back 1970s. As also in know of Camilla's role in select/give amen to the future bride of Charles. IMO be syncophant is an important detail in be in inner circle of Charles.
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« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2013, 06:28:30 pm »

Not all friends were ok with Camilla and possibly many more still only accept her because she is married to Charles if he would have forgotten her, she would be yesterday's news.

Camilla's humiliation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-324169/Camillas-humiliation.html



Wow, Alexandrine, reading that article is a reminder of how vilified Camilla was back then and how awkward and uncomfortable she must have felt a lot of the time, both amongst the public and amongst those in her/Charles's social set. Since she now spends part of the time at Ray Mill away from Charles, it's amazing to think she put up with all that and with being seen as the wicked witch of the West for so long - and that she considered the humiliation worth it.

Maybe Charles, having seen Camilla weather those storms, hopes that Waity and Wills will come good eventually too. Trouble is, unlike Waister, Camilla has always had the capacity for warmth and for showing an intelligent interest in people, quite apart from observing an appropriate dress sense and knowing how to act with decorum. She knows the ropes.

Charles's friends didn't like Diana because she was so different from them. She was from a different generation, wasn't a lover of country pursuits and had different tastes, interests, friends and attitudes. I think she and Charles were ultimately incompatible and brought out the worst in each other. The age gap of 13 years was a huge factor as was Diana's age when she married - she hadn't yet reached full adulthood.
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« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2013, 07:12:02 pm »

@ana bolena no one can explain why someone loves one person and not another.

I think Charles didn't appreciate her because she wasn't prone to saying yes to him about everything.

Diana was not perfect nor was she as horrible as Charles's camp wanted everyone to believe. It would be impossible for her to hide that side of her from the people around her for all those years while doing the good deeds she did at the same time. Diana's compassion for her fellow human was real. She wasn't a saint just a human with a big heart for other people's miseries.

She was also not the only person in the relationship who did things and came up with lame excuses. Charles is the one who gets a big pass on his behavior not Diana. Diana's antics have been played out over and over but not Charles's.

All I read from some posters is how Charles is such a victim. His Grandmother spoiled him, his Mum neglected him, his Dad was to hard on him, he was abused at school. his wife would not be happy with him having a mistress etc. etc. etc..

As for Khan if he said that it sounds more like male ego trying to explain why she didn't want him than anything else.
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« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2013, 09:13:24 pm »

Sandy, I too agree with a lot of what you say, but other parts I don't and can't. 

What totally confuses me, and always has done for as long as I have been grown up is why Charles could not love this saintly goddess who could apparently do nothing wrong whatsoever.   Please, anyone - grant me an explanation as to why the most wonderful woman in the world ever to have existed could not hold the love of a man.   Why did Hasnat say one man could never fulfill everything she needed.  Why?  Why if there was nothing wrong with her?   Even if there was something wrong with, and in honesty I do tend to think there was - it would not define her entire persona in a negative way - it sure would explain a lot.

Some of you place her so high above many many wonderful women who wouldn't stand a chance of getting away with many of her antics - why?   Because of the wonderful things she did?  I do not discount those things.

Why does no one see she made shocking mistakes herself?

I don't discount what she did do.   I am trying to understand this woman who I perceive as being far more clever than she is given credit for.

Please put Charles et al aside - I had opinions on him and his now wife, this is not about them.  I would like to understand her - and without giving lame excuses for some of her behavior that was totally out of line. Period.  huh


 goodpost

I  wish everyone here would respect other posters who may disagree with some of their views.  If we disagree, it does not mean we *despise* the other person, it just means we disagree.  Some people see only good in Diana or Charles, which is historically inaccurate, biased, and shows poor analysis. 

I'm totally comfortable with seeing both good and bad aspects to these important historical figures, based on established facts rather than selective assumptions.
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« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2013, 11:19:44 pm »

Respect of one's views goes both ways. They are not required to keep quiet if their view differs. So there will always be anti-Diana (which is most of this thread) and anti- Charles.

One should remember though that Charles is the one who raised William from start to finish not Diana.
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« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2013, 11:34:50 pm »

I'm simply asking for courtesy.
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« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2013, 11:44:46 pm »

Look I understand that all topics related to Charles and Diana are controversial in the forum because people do not agree on one opinion and that's ok. But please do not make personal comments about other posters. For example the Charles *despise* and Diana *despise* do not bring anything to the discussion.


Now please stay on topic because we have many threads about the marriage and the Tiggy situation is very interesting.  flower
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« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2013, 12:55:36 am »

There was no need for Charles to employ Tiggy. He only had the boys at certain times and should have been spending that time with them not sending them off with a hired Mother.


Of course if Charles and Tiggy were sleeping together that would explain her employment. He would need to throw everyone off by pretending she was there for the boys. Yes that sounds like Charles to me ignore your children because some woman is more important.
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« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2013, 05:09:18 pm »

I thought the discussion about proof was done and finished. There is no prohibition about asking for proof but most of the comments made here are just opinions, after all this is called Royal Gossip.

If we could only post but we knew was true the forums would be in blank.   easter-think
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AnaBolena
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« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2013, 05:15:39 pm »

Please note -:  I do not *despise* Diana or Charles or Camilla or Jane down the road.  I have never hated in my life and don't intend to start now.

I will not apologize for seeing two sides to this, and neither do I condemn others for their opinions.

I sincerely hope some of us are not referred to as anti-di or di haters simply....well....because whatever reason.  huh

PS: Hasnat turned Diana away - from what I have read.  I stand corrected if wrong.

 

« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 05:17:49 pm by AnaBolena » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2013, 02:58:16 pm »

^ Hasnat Khan denied all this  stories about him & Diana in his statements to inquest (I posted 2 statemments in thread about him). He said stayed with Diana in KP the night before she & the boys left for St Tropez. He said was all fine in their relationship even she left to St Tropez. When she was there she dont answer to his calls and he was suspicious she became involved with someone else in this holiday. And he said only saw she again when she was back from her weekend with Dodi in Paris when she said to him was all over between them. He also said the tensions in their relationship started in towards the end of affair because he dont wanted be seen with her. He said she was very supportive of his work and dont bother with the long hours he dedicated to his work but what bother her was his persistence in keep the affair hidden. And when she travel abroad she always made excuses the countries were unsuitable because security or another issue and they couldnt moved in to abroad because this issues not he had some issue. He said they were very good friends and dont take each other this serious and only towards the end they started have serious issues because he wanted keep the affair hidden. He also said would accept if Diana wanted cameback to him. And when he saw Diana with Dodi in news he called her but she had changed her number (who read bios about Diana know what this meant she wanted someone else of her life when she changed her phone). I'm not even remotely surprise he denied all this stories out there about him & Diana. I read many bios about her and what's normal is for one thing have many versions but then suddenly Diana resolved talked the same things (about Khan) to everyone else. I always find this very stranger. What it remembers me is the Morton book for all so called close friends the same story "I never talk with Morton and my friends see the stress I was going through and resolved open up to him (in other words: I have nothing with this book)" and after her death became known that book only existed because she wanted. I do think the true friends of Diana are those who dont talk and the press isnt aware. For example: Carolyn Bartholomew and James Gilbey werent persons who the media most described as close friends of Diana. Diana more was seen/photographed with others persons.

I like very much what Dick Arbither wrote in this book about Diana: (if you clicked on cover you could read what Dick Arbither wrote)
http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Princess-Cherished-Memories-Diana/dp/030733953X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360504885&sr=1-1&keywords=diana+people%27s+princess+larry+king
I agree, particluarly, what he wrote about the true friends of Diana and "these self-proclaimed friends" of Diana.

I dont *despise* Charles, Camilla or whoever. But I have none trouble in said I have none respect for them. IMO they played with the life and feelings of an 19-years-old girl when they were in their 30s and should know better. I think is disgusting their behavior and actions with Diana. And I think even worse their behavior after she died trying throw her name in the mud for they have a good PR.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Tiggy:
I do think other reason William choiced her over his parents in lunch, is because she never scolded/act as adult with the William & Harry. For example: I remember a story (I do think Liz Tilberis said this) once William in KP complained to Diana because he always had clean up your bedroom (in KP) when he never had made this things in Highgrove and Diana said to him when he lives with her he would have made this sort of things. And Tiggy in other way she dont impose this things I do remember episodes before and after Diana died when the boys had be with helmets and they werent and they were on responsability of Tiggy. One of this episodes was after the death of Diana and was commented that the Queen was livid could have happened something with boys because they were without helmets. I also remember - when Diana was still alive - William & Harry with Charles & Tiggy had holidayed in yacht of some greek millionaire and there Harry smoked cigarettes for 1rst time. I really dont think was something exaggerated the dislike of Diana for Tiggy. I do think she had her reasons.

I dont think the dislike of Camilla for Tiggy was only because she had crush for Charles... If there wasnt reciprocated then Camilla wouldnt bother...
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« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2013, 03:24:18 pm »

Sandy, I too agree with a lot of what you say, but other parts I don't and can't.  

What totally confuses me, and always has done for as long as I have been grown up is why Charles could not love this saintly goddess who could apparently do nothing wrong whatsoever.   Please, anyone - grant me an explanation as to why the most wonderful woman in the world ever to have existed could not hold the love of a man.   Why did Hasnat say one man could never fulfill everything she needed.  Why?  Why if there was nothing wrong with her?   Even if there was something wrong with, and in honesty I do tend to think there was - it would not define her entire persona in a negative way - it sure would explain a lot.

Some of you place her so high above many many wonderful women who wouldn't stand a chance of getting away with many of her antics - why?   Because of the wonderful things she did?  I do not discount those things.

Why does no one see she made shocking mistakes herself?

I don't discount what she did do.   I am trying to understand this woman who I perceive as being far more clever than she is given credit for.

Please put Charles et al aside - I had opinions on him and his now wife, this is not about them.  I would like to understand her - and without giving lame excuses for some of her behavior that was totally out of line. Period.  huh





I was away from the computer. And I am now replying. I agree with the other posters who disagreed re: Hasnet Khan.

As for the charges of Diana not "holding the love of a man". She was only 36 when she died and some women do not meet Mr Right until that age. It happens. They marry the wrong person. I knew somebody who was married for ten years and he up and left her. That did not make her a woman who couldn't hold her man. This person was a wonderful person and I never would have thought of saying to her you can't hold your man. That is  just plain unacceptable to me.

What if someone said Charles could not hold his woman (Diana). Of course it would be made "her fault." It takes two to make a marriage. Charles messed up big time by not working on his marriage and I think he only half tried. I think he was more or less obligated to marry Camilla when he named her in 1994--how "happy" they are is known only to them, but she loves the perks and I doubt he will be able to divorce her without losing credibility. If you point the accusing finger at Diana not "holding the love of a man" think back to the women who turned down Charles and these were "suitable for marriage" women: Lady Jane Wellesley, Amanda Knatchbull and Anna Wallace.  It takes two to make a marriage. Charles I think is not a nice person essentially: he also cruelly rejected a loyal mistress Lady Kanga, even refusing to see her when she was sick. I think he and Camilla deserve each other.

Diana could have "held on" to Charles if she had acted meekly and never complained about the mistress and allow hubby to have his extracurricular activities with Camilla and play nice. Her "sin" was that she didn't accept the arrangement. She could not easily move on since divorce was discouraged and she could have lost custody of her children.  Diana never had a serious relationship pre Charles and was inexperienced so it wasn't like she was a "reject." Diana herself dropped Hewitt and broke up with him. She broke up with Hasnet because she didn't want a "halfway house" of a relationship where he did not want to be seen with her.

A woman is not defined by relationships with men by the way. A lot of women don't remarry  and I don't consider them "rejects." They lead happy lives. Diana would have reveled in being a grandmother and she had a strong work ethic.

I think Diana was well rid of Charles who had many hang ups.

Diana was not perfect and nobody here denied she made mistakes (don't we all) but she was honest and knew what she did and didn't want. I think she would have found a happy relationship had she lived. And even if she didn't nobody would think of her as a reject and define her by her relationships.

I think that Diana was not jealous of Tiggy herself but felt threatened. She felt that she could lose custody of the boys since they belonged to the Crown and the Queen in theory could take over their upbringing. I don't blame Diana for being upset over the situation.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 03:29:09 pm by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2013, 03:51:07 pm »

Not all friends were ok with Camilla and possibly many more still only accept her because she is married to Charles if he would have forgotten her, she would be yesterday's news.

Camilla's humiliation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-324169/Camillas-humiliation.html



Wow, Alexandrine, reading that article is a reminder of how vilified Camilla was back then and how awkward and uncomfortable she must have felt a lot of the time, both amongst the public and amongst those in her/Charles's social set. Since she now spends part of the time at Ray Mill away from Charles, it's amazing to think she put up with all that and with being seen as the wicked witch of the West for so long - and that she considered the humiliation worth it.

Maybe Charles, having seen Camilla weather those storms, hopes that Waity and Wills will come good eventually too. Trouble is, unlike Waister, Camilla has always had the capacity for warmth and for showing an intelligent interest in people, quite apart from observing an appropriate dress sense and knowing how to act with decorum. She knows the ropes.

Charles's friends didn't like Diana because she was so different from them. She was from a different generation, wasn't a lover of country pursuits and had different tastes, interests, friends and attitudes. I think she and Charles were ultimately incompatible and brought out the worst in each other. The age gap of 13 years was a huge factor as was Diana's age when she married - she hadn't yet reached full adulthood.

What "storms" did Camilla have to weather when one of the most powerful people in the UK was her lover? He was her sugar daddy, she wanted for nothing, and had sycophants who rallied around her because of who she slept with.  Her sugar daddy put spin out in the press vilifying Diana.  Camilla  got jewels , luxuries and privileges and even got to dictate how her lover treated his wife. And called the shots. She was no victim. If Charles had rejected her from the outset she would not have been a victim either since she was married to someone else.

Of course Camilla felt it was "worth it". If she didn't she would have left Charles and Diana alone to work on their marriage. She would have lost a lot more if her sugar daddy gave her up.

The mistress I felt sorry for was Lady Kanga who died still loving Charles. She was involved with  him when Charles took a furlough from Camila who was having children with APB. He cruelly rejected her and the woman's calls were shut off. I felt sorry for the way she was treated since she showed loyalty to Charles for many years. She was not "with" Charles when he was married to Diana.

Charles IMO only wanted Diana for her youth because she was fertile and could give him heirs. I think he saw her as "disposable" after she had the heir and spare. Camilla was said to have told him not to have more children with Diana after Harry was born.

Kate is the wife and never broke up a marriage to marry a royal. She unlike Camilla was considered suitable to have royal heirs.
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« Reply #99 on: February 11, 2013, 06:27:14 pm »

Dianab, thank you for the information on Hasnat as I have read so many conflicting stories.  thankyou
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