Mary Queen of Scotland and the Isles

[Little light]

I've just spent the morning at Falkland Palace in Fife, Scotland which was the home of a few Monarchs including Mary. 

I never knew they actually took their beds with them. And they are huge!

Plus all their tapestries too. They must have had a lot of staff to take everything with them.

[Rosella]

^ Yes, royalty and powerful aristocrats would spend several months at one palace or castle and then move on to another with their entire Household and majority of their servants in those days, taking their favourite beds, mattresses, bed hangings and chairs etc with them. There would be a huge long procession, wagons, pack horses and primitive coaches and litters.

 They usually did this in the warmer months because of the state of the roads. The reason for the move would often be because the living quarters had become very uncomfortable and unhygienic and would start to stink. Food dropped on the straw on floors, fleas and beetles, lack of WC facilities meaning people using corridors and dark corners to go to the toilet, etc etc. While the household was away the servants that were left would give the place a thorough scrub and clean from top to bottom.

[Little light]

^That makes sense.

I saw the "toilet facilities" in one of the Royal bedrooms and it was a hole in the floor (which went outside the palace itself) in a cubby hole (recess) in the palace wall which was hidden by a curtain. The smell would have been horrendous, especially if you missed the hole in the middle of the night. Or had the runs. (diarrhoea).

And the lighting would have been a bit hit and miss too. So it would be easy to miss your target.  you'd definitely need this big time! 

I'm so glad I live in this century.

[Kuei Fei]

I often wonder how different things would have been if in fact Mary had renounced any claim to Elizabeth's throne; there wouldn't have been any kind of quarrel and it likely would not have escalated the way that it did. Almost every single mess in Mary's life was a result of that determined claim.

[Tatiana]

  Mary's son James VI would still have become James I of England.   Many saw Elizabeth as illegitimate, since they also saw Catherine of Aragon as the only wife of Henry VIII, until after she died, than they saw Jane Seymour as Henry's wife.   Anne Boleyn was seen by many as a mistress nothing more.

[leogirl]

Well, Henry had to break away from the Catholic Church and change the rules in order to divorce his wife. Many faithful Catholics across England and Europe did not accept him leaving a good wife and breaking up a lawful, valid marriage. One cannot have two living wives at the same time. Some even gave their lives as martyrs because they would not accept Henry as head of the church in England. St John Fisher. St Thomas More. Accept him as king and head of state? Of course. But not over the church. And then Henry annulled his marriage to Anne after she failed to give him a son on the basis that he had previously slept with her sister, meaning the marriage was never valid to begin with. Like he forgot he slept with her sister when he married her? Didn't he give himself a dispensation for that? Very sketchy all around.

[Kuei Fei]

Henry had a very adaptable conscience and I think Elizabeth inherited it. Elizabeth destabilized Scotland while Mary was there and basically left Mary, a Sovereign Queen, unable to deal with her nobility.

[Tatiana]

  Mary was well aware of her nobility,  she was the Queen of Scotland and a direct descendant of Henry VII and his daughter Margaret Tudor.  Elizabeth interfered and undermined her every step of the way, not least because Elizabeth was unsure of her nobility and position as "bastard" daughter of Henry VIII.  Elizabeth had a fatal flaw .. she was vain and jealous of her cousin.

[FrederickLouis]

When Queen Mary was widowed at the demise of her first husband, King Francis II, she spent her period of strict mourning with her grandmother Antoinette.

[Kuei Fei]

  Mary was well aware of her nobility,  she was the Queen of Scotland and a direct descendant of Henry VII and his daughter Margaret Tudor.

I meant the aristocrats in Scotland who basically undermined her (Mary) every chance she got. The Scottish nobility, the powerful lords who should have been obedient and should have serving her and Scotland, not Elizabeth's schemes.

Elizabeth interfered and undermined her every step of the way, not least because Elizabeth was unsure of her nobility and position as "bastard" daughter of Henry VIII.  Elizabeth had a fatal flaw .. she was vain and jealous of her cousin.

This is what I don't get; Elizabeth should have NEVER paid for treason against Mary and never should have been surprised that Mary did the same once she was imprisoned.

[FrederickLouis]

In 1566 if Mary, Queen of Scots had gone to France instead of England, what would her chances have been to be restored to the Scottish throne?

[HC]

Perhaps Mary just had poor planning. She choose husbonds who wanted to be regents but they werent sufficient at all.

[Alexandrine]

Hello HC 

[HC]

Hi dear Alexandrine 
I’ve been busy at a new job

[Alexandrine]

I can understand, but nice to see you!

[FrederickLouis]

How well did Mary, Queen of Scots get along with Catherine de Medici?   
http://www.economist.com/node/2441574

[FrederickLouis]

John Knox and Mary Queen of Scots in discussions about Queen Mary being Catholic   
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-illustration-of-john-knox-and-mary-queen-of-scots-in-talks-about-queen-52769949.html

[Kuei Fei]

Perhaps Mary just had poor planning. She choose husbonds who wanted to be regents but they werent sufficient at all.

Mary's biggest flaw was sometimes her idealization of life as a commoner. One biographer mentioned that despite her vast prospects, Mary wanted to have the same romantic adventurism that her 'lessers' had and regrettably it led her to making horrible choices and horrible mistakes. Second, she was someone who had wanted to live an undemanding life and never really was raised to be anything other than pliable, deferential, and ornamental.

It is a shame that she never ended up being able to gain steady ground in Scotland, it was truly unwinnable. She didn't have the advantages of a loyal and reliable nobility and she was someone who had to put up with the abusive John Knox who wouldn't at least TRY to let her rule or even worship in peace. He constantly denounced her in the pulpit, denounced her to her face (WAY out of line), and did dirty work with Elizabeth most willingly, just like the Earl of Moray did.

[Little light]

That first paragraph of yours is apt for the current younger royals, William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie.

At least the first three, to be, want all the ‘freedom’ of being ordinary (despite never having to hold down a full time job etc) and wanting to live undemanding lives.

It goes to show nothing ever changes.

[Kuei Fei]

True as anything and frankly it was something that cost Mary valuable allies. I read in one biography (that was admittedly not pro-Mary, but it was well written and had excellent points) that it is easy to envy the less well off from the comfort of a velvet cushion. A lot of the newer generation of reigning royals truly think that someone with a lot of insecurity in their life is 'freer' than they are in their pampered bubbles. As for a gilded cage, they should try living in the iron cage of poverty. It disgusts me that these royals think that they have horrible restrictions, when in fact they don't have ANY restrictions on their movements or freedoms or choices, not anymore. I find it mind boggling that the recent generations of royals (I am fed up with them calling themselves the 'younger generation') truly think that they have it rough, when they do not. Like them, Mary wouldn't understand that there is a wider world out there that is bewildered at how they're destroying themselves and not caring at all about the well being of their people and the development of their nation.

In regards to marriage, Mary could have married almost any European prince and secured trade for her country and allies for her army, but she refused so many of them, proceeded to marry Darnley, and then her entire life fell apart.