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Author Topic: Mary Queen of Scotland and the Isles  (Read 3745 times)
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cate1949
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« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2014, 09:06:20 pm »

 I love the north of England -

KF - Catholicism died a hard death but yes there were recuse Catholics all over - especially in the north - the Percy's did not even convert to protestanism until the glorious revolution and they participated in the Pilgrimages of Grace - the revolts in the north against Henry's dissolution etc.  A member of their family - the one Elizabeth beheaded - is a step away from being a saint in the RC Church - Blessed Thomas Percy - there is a RC Church near Alnwick named after him.  The North always was more independent minded - you did not last as a King if you did not have the support of the Border Lords.

There are the nicest stories about recuse Catholic communities of people who for centuries their neighbors knew who they were etc but never said anything - there is a small village in north Yorkshire - cannot recall the name right now - when the penal laws were repealed - even helped those now free catholic neighbors build a new little church.  I like stories like this - restore my faith in humanity

Yes - Boswell was her biggest mistake. 
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2014, 11:08:20 pm »

I sometimes wonder how different things would have been if Henry VIII had noticed that Anne was bringing nothing but chaos with her. I mean, the Tudors have been one of the bloodiest dynasties ever to rule anywhere and frankly I don't think for one minute that the Northern Lords ever accepted the Tudors as rightful rulers. I do think that if Mary had signed the Treaty of Edinburgh and renounced any claims while Elizabeth was alive, that she would be tacitly considered heiress and then she just might have ended up Queen after Elizabeth's death. A lot of people think that claiming the crown while Elizabeth was alive is what caused her later horrendous luck.
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Freya
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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2014, 02:01:38 am »

^^
There was a lot of Royalist support for Charles 1 in the North.
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Ariel
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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2014, 05:48:36 am »

i read about the dog yesterday and i still feel sorry for it. poor puppy
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cate1949
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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2014, 05:52:42 am »

oh Ariel - so do I - it seems silly doesn't it? 

Rosella - yes found the painting - the cats name was allegedly Trixie.
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Rosella
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« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2014, 05:54:17 am »

Whoops, wrong sex!!
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HC
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« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2014, 09:08:42 pm »

Reportedly, Mary was pregnant and wouldn't have a kid out of wedlock; she staged a 'kidnapping' and were later married to restore Mary's honor. Remember, back then they didn't sympathize with a woman who was assaulted and the only way to save herself was to marry her abductor.
if mary was pregnant she could just claim the child was by her husbond_ after all he only died 3 month prior to the wedding.
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2014, 07:50:38 am »

By that time Mary and Darnley had been leading separate lives and Mary had been avoiding him since the time after she gave birth to James VI.

As for Elizabeth, I think it's karma that Mary brought so much chaos to her (Elizabeth); Elizabeth spent much of her time bribing Scottish rebellion and rebels that it made rule by Mary literally impossible (along with the Scottish tendency to make life difficult for their sovereigns either way) and Elizabeth sheltered a lot of rebels in English territory. Frankly I think the chaos Mary inflicted was only justice since Elizabeth was on one hand funding rebellion, but also then complaining about Mary's rights as Sovereign being usurped by her rebel subjects that she herself (Elizabeth) was funding to make happen in the first place.
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« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2014, 06:47:48 pm »

Queen Elizabeth was a far better queen than Mary of Scots could ever be.

Mary failed in every aspect as a queen.
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2014, 04:19:47 pm »

Mary didn't have the advisers that Elizabeth did; Elizabeth spent a ton of cash bribing Scots to thwart Mary in any way that could be done. Half the rebellions were funded by Elizabeth, along with the murder of David Riccio who was the one adviser that was trusted and not corrupted by Elizabeth's bribes.
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cate1949
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« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2014, 09:35:02 pm »

I don't think either of them were very good rulers although Mary at least provided the heir - for both of them!

Mary lacked the toughness of her mother - she kept looking for a protector and chose poorly

Elizabeth - her greatness is part of a massive campaign over centuries to create this image of her as this great ruler. It helps also tp be portrayed in films by women like Bette Davis, Glenda Jackson and Cate Blanchett.  In reality she was irresolute, indecisive, lost control of her troops and sent England into bankruptcy with her psychotic bloodletting in Ireland.  The current Elizabeth called her a bloody tyrant and that she was.  She sent more people to the block than Henry VIII and Mary combined which says a lot.  147 in total.  England's great Golden Age was a function of her advisors and military leaders who she drove crazy with her indecisiveness.   In her later years her mental instability was obvious - she was bitter, paranoid and would spend hours in her chambers weeping. She was so overcome with guilt and fear over how many she had killed during her lifetime that as death approached she refused to go to her bed and instead remained in her chair praying constantly.  She also made the ultimate mistake of a monarch - she refused to name her successor.  As she lay dying her advisors kept asking her to name a successor.  She refused and it is believed she refused because she recalled how as her sister Mary lay dying all abandoned her and came to Elizabeth.  It is believed that her chancellor to avoid civil war simply claimed she had named James.  In her last years she would constantly speak of those she had sent to the block and go over the details of their betrayals so as to justify her decisions yet she grieved for those she had killed who had been her lovers - especially Robert Devereux.

There are at least 5 portraits done of her during her life - which when they were recently sent for conservation were x rayed.  The x rays discovered that the benign beautiful face of Elizabeth we are used to seeing was in fact a repaint done in the 1700's.  The actual face-done by those who knew her - was of a haggard woman with haunted eyes.
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2017, 11:28:42 pm »

In France, Mary, Queen of Scots and her husband the Dauphin Francis (later King Francis II) began to quarter the English arms with the French arms in their emblem. It was a gesture that displeased Queen Elizabeth I of England.
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Tatiana
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« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2017, 11:38:42 pm »

  Mary was a child at the time .. her uncles were responsible for that.
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« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2017, 11:49:46 pm »

   I notice there has not been one mention of John Knox. 
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2017, 11:02:10 pm »

John Knox did not like the fact that Queen Mary had considered a marriage to Don Carlos of Spain, the son of King Philip II.   
He married Margaret Stewart without Mary's assent.
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Tatiana
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« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2017, 11:49:28 pm »

  John Knox was a alleged paedophile and a hypocrite, he caused much of the ill feeling towards Mary.  He had no respect for women or for Catholics .. he HATED both.  Elizabeth was neurotic and jealous,  she had no hesitation in beheading hundreds of people.   Mary was too trusting and too soft hearted,  a better human being than Elizabeth could ever be.   
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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2017, 12:26:48 am »

One thing that shocked me when visiting westminster abbey is how someone would decide to put her tomb above another's in the literal sense like a historic f++k you. But I loved that Mary of Scots had a grand tomb in the other side.
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2017, 02:34:26 am »

John Knox was a alleged alleged paedophile and a hypocrite, he caused much of the ill feeling towards Mary.  He had no respect for women or for Catholics .. he HATED both.  Elizabeth was neurotic and jealous,  she had no hesitation in beheading hundreds of people.   Mary was too trusting and too soft hearted,  a better human being than Elizabeth could ever be.

He married a CHILD of eighteen and bitterly denounced anyone who dared be happy. Mary was a Queen betrayed by everyone who should have been loyal.
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2017, 03:39:12 pm »

  John Knox was a alleged alleged paedophile and a hypocrite, he caused much of the ill feeling towards Mary.  He had no respect for women or for Catholics .. he HATED both.  Elizabeth was neurotic and jealous,  she had no hesitation in beheading hundreds of people.   Mary was too trusting and too soft hearted,  a better human being than Elizabeth could ever be.   

Elizabeth certainly was neurotic and jealous, and a genius of a ruler for that time in history.  Mary's trusting and soft heart made her a poor queen for that time.   However, from all I have read, Elizabeth agonized over putting Mary to death and only reluctantly agreed to it when plots against Elizabeth were discovered, hatched by Mary's supporters.
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Tatiana
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« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2017, 10:48:47 pm »

  Mary,  Queen of Scots is one of my ancestors, so is Sir Antony Babbington .   Had his plot succeeded history would have been very different.  Both ended up losing their heads.
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