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Author Topic: King Richard III  (Read 5335 times)
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Grey Mare
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« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2014, 04:18:59 pm »

The only surviving Plantagenet was the child  of Woodville and Edward's second daughter who survives because she marries a commoner and goes to Guernsey (I think).  Her descendant is in Canada now and it was his DNA that proved this was Richard  - which is pretty cool I think.  Except he doesn't want anyone to know who he is - in case the current occupants get nervous about a real Plantagenet floating around.   easter-lol

The DNA used to assist in proving that the remains were Richard III is called Mitochondrial DNA.  

Richard III's remains were tested using the mitochondrial DNA of Michael Ibsen, a Canadian direct descendent of Richard III's sister, Anne Plantagenet, Duchess of Exeter.  Mr. Ibsen's mother, Joy, was a 16th great granddaughter (through an unbroken female line) of Anne Plantagenet, Duchess of Exeter.  

They also found another mitochondrial DNA descendent of Richard III's sister in America but that person, while tested, has chosen to stay anonymous.  Using the

There are many direct descendents of Elizabeth Woodville through her daughter Elizabeth of York but none of them are mitochondrial DNA descendents to date. Also, using the mitochondrial DNA of one of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's daughters would do no good anyway because mitochondrial DNA is only passed from mother to daughter.  Therefore, the daughters of Elizabeth Woodville would not share the same mitochondrial DNA as Richard III.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 04:26:55 pm by Grey Mare » Logged
Freya
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« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2014, 06:43:46 am »

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/23/world/europe/uk-richard-iii-reburial/

Richard 111 is to be buried in Leicester. I would have preferred to see him buried in Yorkshire but I am glad that the decision is made as it was extremely disrespectful to not bury his remains.
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Rosella
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« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2014, 08:07:37 am »

I would like to hear, when he has been buried, or rather re-interred, that some prayers in Latin are said over him, considering he is to have a tomb in a Protestant Cathedral.
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berlin
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« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2014, 01:45:58 pm »

Not only that, but isn't Leicester one of those hotbeds of Islamic extremism areas?  I certainly wouldn't want to visit there.
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« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2014, 09:08:07 pm »

^
It's multicultural but not an Islamic hotbed. Visiting the centre of Leicester in the day would be no problem. It's not a tourist centre like York but there is some nice countryside around Leicester and you could visit Bosworth at the same time.
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Fly on the wall
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« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2014, 08:58:05 pm »

Does Richard III's DNA question the Queen's right to the throne? Analysis reveals relative of medaeival monarch may have been conceived out of wedlock


He was one of the nation’s most notorious monarchs in life, and Richard III is still creating controversy more than 500 years after his death.

Genetic analysis of a skeleton discovered beneath a car park in Leicester three years ago has confirmed it did indeed belong to the last Plantagenet king.

Much more intriguingly, it held a secret that could shake the foundations of the Tudor dynasty. The genetic discovery even raises a question mark over the current Queen’s royal heritage.

DNA analysis revealed that one of Richard III’s male relatives was cuckolded - leading to his wife giving birth to another man’s child.

Depending on just who was unfaithful, it could have far-reaching consequences.

An international team of researchers, led by Leicester University, pieced together sections of Richard III’s family tree, right down to relatives who are alive today.

The team then compared the DNA of these living relations with genetic material extracted from the 15th century king’s teeth and bones.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2857524/Does-Richard-III-s-DNA-question-Queen-s-right-throne-Analysis-reveals-relative-monarch-conceived-wedlock.html

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« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2014, 09:26:11 pm »

Ha!  those Tudors were then fly by nighters - always suspected it!  LOL.  Actually - even of John of Gaunt was  not his father's son  Henry VII ruled by right of conquest - he beat Richard III at Bosworth - biggest army wins!  And of course the Windsor claim comes through the Stuarts whose claim comes from the Tudors.

It is amazing to see Richard III vindicated finally - although we still have those missing princes.  I suspect since it is clear he was vilified in so many other ways the claim he killed those boys is also perhaps Tudor propaganda.

There should be DNA testing on the two juvenile skeletons found in the tower back in the - was it the 70's?  I wonder too if they were given a proper burial?

Fascinating stuff thanksFly!
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Countess of Holland
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« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2014, 07:37:11 am »

Actually, the Windsors claim their right to the throne through the Act of Settlement, a law that was accepted by the English parliament. The fact that the AoS refers to the Stuart-bloodline is less important since a law of parliament supercedes the bloodline in a democracy.

And who is to say that the 'faulty' DNA is in the royal line? It could just as well have been in the line of the Dukes of Somerset.
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Rosella
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« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2014, 09:21:54 am »

The bones of two juveniles were found buried in a chestunder the stairs in the White Tower of the Tower of London in 1674. King Charles II asked Sir Christopher Wren to design a tomb for the bones and they were transferred to Westminster Abbey. They were placed in an urn of black and white marble.

Between the wars there was a spurt of interest in the bones by the public and in 1933 King George V gave permission for the remains to be examined. An examination was carried out by an eminent physician of the time, Dr Lawrence Tanner, who was also Keeper of the Monuments at the Abbey, together with Professor Wright, a dental surgeon and President of the Anatomical Society of Great Britain.

The report was very interesting but of course the limited forensic knowledge of the time meant that some things were frustratingly  inconclusive. They had the incomplete skeletons of two children, the elder 4ft 10ins tall of slender build, and estimated age twelve to thirteen years old. The younger was nine to eleven years old and 4ft 6 and a half inches tall. King Edward was nearly 13 and his brother Richard was ten. Wright stated that the bone structure of the jaws etc indicated a familial connection.

There have been numerous attempts in the the last decades to get the bones re-tested since DNA became established, but unfortunately the Abbey authorities have taken the view that the bones are interred in the Abbey and shouldn't be disturbed just because the public would like them to be. And so they remain!
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Grey Mare
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« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2014, 02:52:42 pm »

I do not understand why the lack of a match with the Y chromosome is so earth shattering as the House of York and the House of Tudor’s claims to the throne were always through a female line of descent.

House of York’s claim to the throne was always though Philippa of Clarence as her father, Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence, was the second eldest surviving son of King Edward III.  They had a real legitimate claim as there was no Salic law. 

The House of Lancaster never had a real claim to the throne whether John of Gaunt was King Edward III’s son or not as John of Gaunt was the third eldest surviving son and younger brother of Lionel.  King Henry IV was a usurper.  They had no real legitimate claim because again England had no Salic law.

The Tudor claim to the throne was never through King Henry VII.  The Tudor claim to the throne was always through Elizabeth of York & her claim to the throne was always through Philippa of Clarence.  King Henry VII would have never gotten to be King without his marriage to Elizabeth of York.
 
This finding is only earth shattering to the Dukes of Beaufort because it is unlikely that they are male line descendants of the Plantagenets and I always assumed that people understood that Queen Elizabeth II held the throne by default.  The law in Britain might say that she should be Queen but genetically she is not a direct anything.
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« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2014, 03:05:46 pm »

Richard III was blue-eyed, blond, but should he have been king? DNA puzzle

DNA tests reveal long-lost King Richard III probably had blond hair, blue eyes
Scientists 99.999 percent certain remains found in parking lot are those of monarch
Experts say chances are 6.7 million to one that skeleton belongs to last Plantagenet king
Attempts to trace male line through Y chromosome failed because of 'false paternity event'
London (CNN) -- New DNA tests reveal Britain's long-lost King Richard III was blue-eyed and likely blond-haired, but they also raise intriguing questions over whether he -- and other monarchs before and since -- should have been on the throne at all.
Experts researching the case of the "King in the car park" -- a set of remains dug up from beneath a parking lot in the central English city of Leicester in 2012 -- now say they are 99.999% positive that the bones are those of Richard III, who died at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/02/world/europe/richard-iii-dna-hair-eyes/?hpt=wo_c2

DNA Confirms: Here Lieth Richard III, Under Yon Parking Lot
The king's genes also raise some royally embarrassing questions about the legitimacy of the Tudors who ended his reign.


The team of genetics detectives reported Tuesday that DNA from the skeleton shows that the bones were Richard III's, with a likelihood of 99.9994 percent. This is the first genetic identification of a particular individual so long after death—527 years.

Archaeologists had peeled back a parking lot in 2012 to excavate the skeleton, which was among buried relics of the Greyfriars Friary in Leicester, England, long the reputed burial site of Richard III. (See "The Real Richard III.")
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/12/141202-richard-iii-genes-shakespeare-science/

Richard III's DNA throws up infidelity surprise
from remains found in a Leicester car park say the finding might have profound historical implications.

Depending on where in the family tree it occurred, it could cast doubt on the Tudor claim to the English throne or, indeed, on Richard's.

The study is published in the journal Nature Communications.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30281333
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 03:07:54 pm by Fly on the wall » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2014, 04:48:23 pm »

Quote
Depending on where in the family tree it occurred, it could cast doubt on the Tudor claim to the English throne or, indeed, on Richard's.

sigh  I love it how people lack any clue about genealogy and genetics then they jump to conclusions.

The Y chromosome's failure to match is intriguing but nothing more.  Richard III's claim to the throne and the Tudor's claim to the throne was always through a female line, anyway.
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« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2014, 02:31:26 am »

I wonder if Margaret Beaufort had something to do with the deaths of the princes. She was just that insanely ambitious and devoutly believed it was God's will that her son Henry rule as King of a united England. I find it telling that the French were readily eager to do marriage negotiations with the Plantagenet, but hesitated over the marital relations with the Tudors. A lot of the high European houses preferred to shy away from any kind of marriage negotiations with the Tudor dynasty. Yes, there were suitors for Elizabeth, but at first, Henry VII had to prove time and time again that his throne was secure and was legitimate.
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« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2015, 07:58:18 pm »

Countdown to the reinterment of Richard III

http://www.hinckleytimes.net/news/local-news/countdown-reinterment-richard-iii---8715875
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« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2015, 06:19:30 am »

I m looking forward to this - should be very interesting and even moving
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« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2015, 10:50:11 am »

I find it telling that the French were readily eager to do marriage negotiations with the Plantagenet, but hesitated over the marital relations with the Tudors. A lot of the high European houses preferred to shy away from any kind of marriage negotiations with the Tudor dynasty.

I think this was more the result of the low origins of the founder of the Tudor-dynasty.
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« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2015, 06:24:39 pm »

Exactly. Ironically, Henry VIII was larger than life and could have had a French princess if he had ended up NOT falling in love with Anne Boleyn.
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« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2015, 01:08:21 am »

I m looking forward to this - should be very interesting and even moving

So am I. Did not realise there was a ballot for invitations to the three services. I shall visit Leicester Cathedral at some point to see the final resting place.
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« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2015, 08:02:53 pm »

Richard III reburial at cathedral

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/national/11857610.Richard_III_reburial_at_cathedral/
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« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2015, 02:16:31 pm »

Ceremony fit for a king: Remains of Richard III begin five day journey to final resting place 500 years after he fell in battle

more than 500 years after his death in battle.

The remains of the last Plantagenet King have left the University of Leicester, whose archaeologists discovered the king buried under a council car park in 2012, after the first of a series of ceremonies.

He is now making his way through the Leicestershire countryside to Bosworth battlefield where he fell in battle against Henry Tudor in 1485.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006275/Ceremony-fit-king-Remains-Richard-III-begin-five-day-journey-final-resting-place-500-years-fell-battle.html


Richard III: Leicester reburial under way
Leicestershire ahead of his reburial.


The cortege departed the University of Leicester after a short ceremony. It will pass places in Leicestershire associated with the former king, who died at Bosworth in 1485.

The coffin is set to reach Leicester Cathedral at 17:35 GMT, where he will be finally reinterred on Thursday.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-31990721



Richard III: Farewell to a King
Leicester, England (CNN)Thousands of people are expected to line the streets in tribute to Richard III as the King's long-lost remains are carried through the English city of Leicester on Sunday, ahead of his burial.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/22/europe/richard-iii-farewell/
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 02:19:10 pm by Fly on the wall » Logged

NEVER *despise* correction,for those who correct you ,truly LOVE you .They are willing to displease you and possibly lose your friendship ,rather than see you destroyed. Those who *despise* you ,on the other hand ,will allow you to FAIL...because what do they care ?

Every praise is not good and every criticism is not evil..!
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