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sandy
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« Reply #560 on: March 22, 2017, 07:27:52 pm »

I think Diana had much more of a clue about normalcy than Kate has. Kate waited 10 years for the ring, had part time very sporadic jobs and was supported by her parents. Diana had a window of opportunity to share a flat with roommates and work right up until the engagement (part time jobs).  Diana did not "stalk" Hoare, he pursued her. Carling denied an affair. Charles OTOH put his mistress first always. He had the numerous affairs and Camilla was considered mistress material for Charles even before she married Andrew Parker Bowles. Read up on Diana's interviews about her sons' future. She encouraged them to do charity work and did talk about the heritage of William's royal future. William totally skewed Diana's advice so normal equaled being lazy. And being a good parent meant doing little work. Diana was not around when William met Kate so she should not be blamed for William's own lifestyle. William's parents could never be accused of being lazy and workshy. So he is so unlike his parents as far as work ethics, they are world's apart.
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« Reply #561 on: March 22, 2017, 07:41:39 pm »

It is my belief that Diana did stalk Hoare, and I maintain that belief.  I am a great Diana fan, and not blind to her faults and failings, no way.  Bill medd has got away with most things because his mother died at a young age, that is his get out of jail card every time.  No idea who he takes after, he he is the laziest oik in a long time.  Haza better but still cut from the same cloth.  I do not blame Diana for bill medd and his ways, most of it is down to him and how lazy, deceitful and petulant he is, and he appears to do nothing to correct it, or even want to.

Diana was no saint, but she was treated very badly by chucky and his mistress, and yes there were three in the marriage, and I most certainly would not like that if it was my marriage, so why should she.  If anything the sleeping around in his genetics appears to come from chucky and his grandfather, plus many other of the windsor me.  If council cath thinks she will work him out of those ways she can think again.  He has always been lazy, and at nearly 35 doubt that is going to change, same applies to council cath.

Diana was not around when, sadly, bill medd met council cath, had she been then it might well have been a whole different story, but on my thinking, and I have always thought this, it is down to the rf that he was motherless, and maybe that is why he appears to hold a grudge against them, who knows.

Too many things we don´t know about what went on behind closed doors.  People write books, does that make them correct?  Not necessarily. It is all conjecture and assumption, none of us can 100%& say what is correct and what is not.  People also interpret things in different ways.  Unless we were given access to the whole truth, not one of us knows the real truth about Diana, most of it is what we think it was, not exactly what it was for real.
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sandy
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« Reply #562 on: March 22, 2017, 07:52:41 pm »

If she "Stalked" him it would be if he did not want her around ala Fatal Attraction. He did encourage her and moved out of the home he shared with his wife at some point in his relationship with her. Jephson and Wharfe did write he pursued her (and they were there). The Hoares are still together. I think Diana should have stayed away from him, however. But at least he did not 'kiss and tell' nor ever confirmed or denied an affair. Had Charles ditched the mistress, I doubt Diana would have strayed. It also was not as if Charles had one night stands and strayed that way. Camilla was firmly implanted even before Charles and Diana got engaged. 

On the surface though, Charles and Diana had the work ethic genes and did what they were supposed to do as royals and did not shirk. William just does whatever he pleases and for whatever reason, the senior royals tip toe around him.

Maybe he was resentful his father used him to promote his mistress back in 1998. But I do think William likes to take the easy way out, which means avoiding work and also he has some arrogance.

No, nobody knows the "real" Diana because she has been trashed in books by Charles' sympathizers. That may be something else that bothers William. But that does not excuse his bad choices in life. It's all on him.
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HRHOlya
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« Reply #563 on: March 22, 2017, 08:53:55 pm »

In one of the more recent articles in the dm, it was stated that Diana did call Hoare a couple of times, but the actual harasser, who actually called for months on end was a "disgruntled" school mate of Hoare's son.
I could swear it was in this (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4205234/Prince-Charless-fairytale-life-new-biography.html) article, I skimmed it over and cannot find it anymore. If I am not wrong and it was in this article, then I suppose it was edited out. Well worth saving articles offline....

Though Charles doesn't come out in the best light in these recent articles, I see that Diana is still painted in such a false light throughout and in some of the anecdotes that make her look bad only half truths are given. I think this is also the reason for "Saint Diana", because of the smear campaign, that everyone and their dog knows about, so people are almost forced to defend her to a fault. That's how I feel when I read this dross about her.

And I agree Sandy, the "normal" thing has been played to death. She wanted to show her sons how fortunate they are and the other side that exists in this world, not for them to play "Bill the Plumber" and "Hazza the ArmyPartyMan". Not to get into a Bill & Harry discussion, but I think the worst things the family did, where it went all wrong was 1. they coddled them after her death (esp Bill); a lack of discipline 2. Chuck was partly absent and tended to Camz instead of his sons and 3. the throwing the sons under the bus, either for own gain (Camz again) or for each other's gain/ detriment.

Diana was human as is always emphasised by her fans, yes, but much of her "irrational" behaviour stems from what she said in interviews, and what I have concluded for myself after all that's been written and said about the Walses & Camz: she may have had post partum depression (I think she admitted to this, and from this came the "irrational Di" thing), and then afterwards I think she didn't know anymore after a point how to get rid of the other woman and get her husband back, so I assume she resumed to drastic measures at times. Also because everyone in that set expected her to turn a blind eye, which she did not, and thus his friends labelling her "crazy" and "unstable". And many other things claimed have been disputed, but are still claimed to be true, stuff she lied herself about, like throwing herself down the stairs or all that selfharm she said she did, but I think to have read that she lied about that, and that I can believe. I doubt she went through the selfharm she said she did.

I think most of us would have gone kaputt in that family like Diana did: an uncaring husband, an ever present mistress who plays hostess & wife when you're not around, a husband who puts you second or even fifth after all else he cares about (incl said mistress) more than you, a MIL you initially get along with, but who won't help you and put a stop to her son's extra marital escapades, a granny in law who kind of arranged for you to marry in but only cares about her grandson, coldness, a set of friends of your husband who have a campaign going against you, tptb et al running around round the clock and dictating your life, being put to work instantly with a wide array of engagements and huge crowds for you to navigate, whilst you "shake like a leaf" (Di described by someone at one of her early engagments, the Xmas light thingy), a general lack of support from all sides, esp in the personal life department.

All this and a bit more are the reasons why I too am likely to defend her first and take another look second.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 08:57:53 pm by HRHOlya » Logged
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« Reply #564 on: March 23, 2017, 12:22:20 am »

^Yes they did and frankly I am glad someone agrees with me that Diana was no holy saint and didn't also imbue with them with a sense of duty. Diana was actually surprised that microwave meals existed and she was once calling up friends and telling them about the excitement of waiting in life for the first time in her life. Diana had no clue about normalcy and had no clue about consequences; stalking a married man among her numerous affairs. She distracted her sons from a straightforward upbringing that wouldn't have mainstreamed them, but it would have protected them from users like the Midds and it's likely that neither would be in half the messes they are now.
Totall agree with you.
I do too

After the divorce, Diana was a grown woman who was free to live her life, but she was not supposed to be free from consequences. Hoare and others that she messed with were not available to her, but she was just as much a part of that drama as they were. Once she knew they were married, she should have backed off and found someone else. No matter how she had it hard via her marriage, once she was a free woman, there was never any excuse; even Dodi was with someone else, according to many he was engaged and had made a promise.

Diana was busy running around partying and she could have settled at any estate on the planet, but chose to run around. She wasn't a teenager when she was making calls to Hoare's wife/house and she wasn't an ingenue when she got into a relationship with Dodi. She never at any point thought to stop and take a look at where her life was leading her. William was supposedly upset at how she was leading her life and disliked having her spill to the tabloids and at a young age, William never should have had this kind of thing on his mind, much less telling his mother to stop seeing one person or another.
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Sheridan_is_appalled
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« Reply #565 on: March 23, 2017, 01:01:38 am »

^ She got pretty reckless after the divorce. I think she really wanted to stick it to the RF no matter who got hurt in the process. And I say this as a Diana fan.
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« Reply #566 on: March 23, 2017, 01:14:26 am »

I think she was reckless mainly since she was used to the courtiers cleaning up her messes and covering for her; for some reason she kept justifying her mistreatment of others as legitimate since she was the wronged wife.
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« Reply #567 on: March 23, 2017, 01:19:25 am »

^Agreed.  When she got with Dodi, even after finding out he was already engaged, I was stunned.  I knew she'd made some bad choices but what the hell was she thinking other than rattling the RF's gilded cage?  I was so disappointed in her.
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sandy
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« Reply #568 on: March 23, 2017, 01:28:34 pm »

^Yes they did and frankly I am glad someone agrees with me that Diana was no holy saint and didn't also imbue with them with a sense of duty. Diana was actually surprised that microwave meals existed and she was once calling up friends and telling them about the excitement of waiting in life for the first time in her life. Diana had no clue about normalcy and had no clue about consequences; stalking a married man among her numerous affairs. She distracted her sons from a straightforward upbringing that wouldn't have mainstreamed them, but it would have protected them from users like the Midds and it's likely that neither would be in half the messes they are now.
Totall agree with you.
I do too

After the divorce, Diana was a grown woman who was free to live her life, but she was not supposed to be free from consequences. Hoare and others that she messed with were not available to her, but she was just as much a part of that drama as they were. Once she knew they were married, she should have backed off and found someone else. No matter how she had it hard via her marriage, once she was a free woman, there was never any excuse; even Dodi was with someone else, according to many he was engaged and had made a promise.

Diana was busy running around partying and she could have settled at any estate on the planet, but chose to run around. She wasn't a teenager when she was making calls to Hoare's wife/house and she wasn't an ingenue when she got into a relationship with Dodi. She never at any point thought to stop and take a look at where her life was leading her. William was supposedly upset at how she was leading her life and disliked having her spill to the tabloids and at a young age, William never should have had this kind of thing on his mind, much less telling his mother to stop seeing one person or another.

Dodi was free when he met Diana on the yacht that summer. His father ordered him to break up with Kelly Fisher and he did. Kelly Fisher blamed the Fayeds not Diana.

What about Daddy telling his biographer he never loved Diana? And what about him admitting the affair one year before Diana's interview. And that did not bother William or Harry? How come Diana is singled out. What about Dad shacking up with his married mistress? It seems there is some selective blame going on here. Charles spilled his guts to his biographer and it was not pretty.

Diana did work and did not go around "partying" like her son and daughter in law are doing now.

Diana should have stayed away from Hoare. But he is just as culpable and he pursued her it was not one sided.

Sheridan and KF please read up on the history of Diana and Dodi, he broke up with Kelly on his father's orders before he started dating Diana. This is a fact. He was a free man when he dated Diana. Again, Kelly blamed him and his father, not Diana.
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Sheridan_is_appalled
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« Reply #569 on: March 23, 2017, 02:19:28 pm »

^ Condescending much?
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« Reply #570 on: March 23, 2017, 02:30:44 pm »

Let's keep the discussion without personal references. Thank you
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sandy
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« Reply #571 on: March 24, 2017, 12:39:38 am »

^ Condescending much?

I'm stating a fact. Not being condescending. Please do not get personal

She clearly blamed the Fayeds not Diana.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1572509/Dodis-ex-fiancee-tells-inquest-of-betrayal.html
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Sheridan_is_appalled
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« Reply #572 on: March 24, 2017, 12:45:19 am »

^ Sorry, but how is calling someone out by name and telling them to go read up on a subject (your words, not mine) not getting personal?
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sandy
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« Reply #573 on: March 24, 2017, 12:49:38 am »

I  routinely suggest people google to find out things or look it up. I've done this for years. It is nothing personal. So I posted the link. From Kelly's own testimony. She did not say Diana broke the engagement. I think she wanted a settlement from the Fayeds like Breach of Promise or Palimony or something to that effect.
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« Reply #574 on: March 24, 2017, 06:48:55 am »

Either way, Diana should have started doing her homework on the single/non-single background of her men.

Diana was in fact never aware of normalcy and less so than Waity; Waity didn't grow up in a huge manor home with dozens of servants and didn't really work because she had to, but as a way to pass the time and basically have fun while seeking for a husband.

I do not believe that her marriage problems however should have been used as a justification to load her resentments onto her adolescent son and she had no business saying that Harry would make a better king, or really mouthing off about her ex-husband in general to the public. I don't think Diana had any excuse with Hoare, even if he was running after her; if he was, she should have drawn some kind of line and basically she should have ordered him to back off. Diana had no business even compromising herself like that since she herself knew how painful the other woman can be for any wife.

I am frankly disgusted that Diana didn't learn about the pain 'the other woman' causes even if it's just light flirtation; I dislike how every one of her inappropriate (or just plain wrong) actions are in fact blamed on Charles and Camilla all the time. Charles and Camilla didn't make her do everything she did to other people.

Diana was once compared to Marilyn Monroe and she denied it stating she was more like Jackie O., since she (Jackie) had been mistreated by the Kennedy family (somewhat true to an extent) and she (Diana) knew all about that. Diana was constantly viewing and declaring herself to be a victim and never really faced the ugly truth that many of her own problems are in fact mainly because of her own actions. Jackie O. had her husband's brains blown out and managed to avoid going on national television or leaking to the press, but go figure, Diana went to the press on a constant basis (when she wasn't suing them or ordering injunctions) and I dislike how, despite her privileges, she still managed to make a huge mess for herself.
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« Reply #575 on: March 24, 2017, 07:03:42 am »

^ How did Charles and Camilla cause PD to do ANY of the things she did to other people? Yes, it is horrid reading how PDs actions are often pinned on the Prince/Princess of Wales. I don't follow these people but even I have heard and read this nonsense.  Diana just seemed like a mess to begin with. I might be wrong but she seemed a mess. I didn't know she sued the press! So this erratic behaviour against the media is more copycatting PD! Shocked dontknow Shocked blink
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sandy
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« Reply #576 on: March 24, 2017, 10:48:49 am »

It's funny how the Diana was a "mess" and "erratic" come straight from Charles sympathizers like Junor, this done to score points with Charles. The Duchess of Cornwall and the Prince of Wales are no saints and Charles minions like Junor and Bedell bashing Diana, to try to excuse their own actions, is oh so obvious. It's smoke and mirrors. The Duchess slept her way to the top, she ditched her own family for her ambitions, mentored a 19 year old that she felt would be the "perfect mouse" and she could manipulate, and undermined the wife, even stepping into her role as hostess at Highgrove. Diana was no "mess" or "erratic" she was spot on about Camilla. She was human. Diana sued the press about that photo of her in the gym. Which was justified. It is the oldest excuse int he book for a man's philandering to have his wife labeled "erratic." Charles I think was and is narcissistic and the world revolves around him. Well he got what he wanted, the wife, heirs, and got to see off the wife and marry the mistress.


Either way, Diana should have started doing her homework on the single/non-single background of her men.

Diana was in fact never aware of normalcy and less so than Waity; Waity didn't grow up in a huge manor home with dozens of servants and didn't really work because she had to, but as a way to pass the time and basically have fun while seeking for a husband.

I do not believe that her marriage problems however should have been used as a justification to load her resentments onto her adolescent son and she had no business saying that Harry would make a better king, or really mouthing off about her ex-husband in general to the public. I don't think Diana had any excuse with Hoare, even if he was running after her; if he was, she should have drawn some kind of line and basically she should have ordered him to back off. Diana had no business even compromising herself like that since she herself knew how painful the other woman can be for any wife.

I am frankly disgusted that Diana didn't learn about the pain 'the other woman' causes even if it's just light flirtation; I dislike how every one of her inappropriate (or just plain wrong) actions are in fact blamed on Charles and Camilla all the time. Charles and Camilla didn't make her do everything she did to other people.

Diana was once compared to Marilyn Monroe and she denied it stating she was more like Jackie O., since she (Jackie) had been mistreated by the Kennedy family (somewhat true to an extent) and she (Diana) knew all about that. Diana was constantly viewing and declaring herself to be a victim and never really faced the ugly truth that many of her own problems are in fact mainly because of her own actions. Jackie O. had her husband's brains blown out and managed to avoid going on national television or leaking to the press, but go figure, Diana went to the press on a constant basis (when she wasn't suing them or ordering injunctions) and I dislike how, despite her privileges, she still managed to make a huge mess for herself.

Kate waited ten years for the ring and was not exactly lauded for having "fun" and falling out of nightclubs and vacationing. Her bad work ethic carried over into the marriage. She had ample time to work but chose to be on call for WIlliam. I don't find this particularly admirable or "normal". Servants or no servants.

Diana sued the press over that photograph of her in the gym. I don't recall any other time she did. Kate and William do push the envelope in suing people.

Jackie O. did live with a man who was still married (Templesman). So she was not above reproach herself.

Charles cut Diana loose after she had the heir and spare. ANd she was only 23. Should she have taken vows? She would have risked losing custody had she bolted. Charles in the mean time could have his fun with Camilla and Janet Jenkins and others. Diana should have been given a contract about what was expected in the marriage to Charles and maybe with a clause in the contract that she could divorce without losing custody of the children.Charles adamantly wanted the marriage HIS way. It was not as if she ran around on the Great Man before he ditched her. He ditched her and I think he had it in mind to leave her bed after he did his duty and had the children. In that sense I blame him.

Even if Diana had remained celibate, Charles would still have been emotionally abusive to her and Diana would have had to put up with it.  She was in a no win situation.

Diana did talk about Jackie O. in reference to how she raised her children. And expressed admiration about how she raised Caroline and John.

I find Camilla's and Charles' actions loathesome and whatever Diana did, they are still loathesome and selfish.

Charles had his people bashing Diana as early as the mid eighties. Some women would have done a lot worse than Diana under these circumstances.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 10:57:42 am by sandy » Logged
deGuernsey
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« Reply #577 on: March 24, 2017, 03:56:58 pm »

^ Sandy, I said Diana seemed like a mess and I mean it. In my opinion PD was not the best, most honest and/or honourable person and not the worst either. And I find she was quite the mess. This disaster was a shame all around and, no, I don't believe PD married PC because of love but as she said in am interview, "I want to be a ballerina or the Prncess of Wales. I found I am too tall to be a ballerina." Or some pother such nonsense aand she wasn't forced to marry the  Prince. She chose to. As I have said I find this matter a terrible shame all arround and PD a mess.
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« Reply #578 on: March 24, 2017, 04:27:17 pm »

Diana was once compared to Marilyn Monroe and she denied it stating she was more like Jackie O., since she (Jackie) had been mistreated by the Kennedy family (somewhat true to an extent) and she (Diana) knew all about that. Diana was constantly viewing and declaring herself to be a victim and never really faced the ugly truth that many of her own problems are in fact mainly because of her own actions. Jackie O. had her husband's brains blown out and managed to avoid going on national television or leaking to the press, but go figure, Diana went to the press on a constant basis (when she wasn't suing them or ordering injunctions) and I dislike how, despite her privileges, she still managed to make a huge mess for herself.
sorry but...Apples & oranges here... Jackie was treated like a 'queen' compared to Diana who was seen as a crazy woman since because she suffered PP depression and bulimia to the fact she disliked being trapped in a convenience marriage (a big facade) and didnt see normal having a cheating husband in love with his mistress. The Kennedys knew Jackie was a ASSET, they welcomed their charisma and popularity. The Windsors hated Diana for her popularity and charisma, didnt understand why she liked to hug people and particularly little kids who she had never met before AND getting involved in Aids and cancer charities. To them, IF she was normal and reasonable she'd have been involved in more clean charities and obviously would have seen Camilla as something normal in royal/aristo culture.

PS. When one of he babies of Jackie died, JKF father begged him to left a orgy and comfort Jackie in hospital. When some Windsor called out Charles and said for him to comfort and to be there for Diana

As for Panorama interview and Morton book I'M glad she did what she did. I respect her a lot for that. She wanted her life back and fought for it. Good for her. IT'S a shame back then she didnt out the fact Charles wrote a letter for get that religious man out of jail.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 04:37:16 pm by dianab » Logged
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« Reply #579 on: March 24, 2017, 04:49:35 pm »

^ I didn't know PD had post partum depression. Shocked  My heart goes out  to women with this illness. Omg it's bad! Am I wrong in saying there wasn't much by way of treatment back then or am I remembering incorrectly?
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