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Author Topic: Henry VIII & Wives  (Read 64338 times)
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royalfanPKLS
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2011, 08:11:18 am »

In the show, the guy ended up getting beheaded because of it.

I think you mean Duke of Buckingham.

I've found some info on him. In the real live, he was also executed.

http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/edwardstafford.htm

Yes, okay thank you, I knew they were drawing that storyline from real life somehow.
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"Sometimes I think I was born backwards. You know, come out my mum the wrong way. I hear words go past me backwards. The people I should love, I *despise*. And the people I *despise*…”
tequiero
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2011, 01:38:23 pm »

You are very welcome  urwelcome urwelcome
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Harry-ite #6
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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2012, 11:10:23 pm »

The Tudors Wiki: http://www.thetudorswiki.com/
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HC
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2012, 08:39:41 pm »


Quote
Now that the future Swedish heir to the throne is a girl, the future kings in Europe is to count. In fact, the Danish Prince Christian is one rooster in the basket.

Besides the Swedish royal family has both the Norwegian, Spanish, Dutch and Belgian royal family had little princesses as first bornes in the youngest generation.
This will mean that Prince Christian has only female colleagues, when he takes over the Danish throne.
Only Britain's Prince William and Duchess Catherine can deliver a king to keep the Danish Christian company.
http://translate.google.dk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billedbladet.dk%2FKongelige%2FArticleFolder%2F2012%2F3%2FEuropas%2520fremtid%2520christian%2520og%2520dronningerne.aspx&act=url
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serene grace
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« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2012, 10:52:40 pm »

Can someone explain the real reason Henry VIII did not like Anne of Cleeves? I've watched three movies and two documentaries, all have different opinions. Also some documentaries say she was very attractive and some so she was not and that's what turned Henry off so quickly.

Also do you believe Anne Boleyn's sister, Mary definately had a child with Henry VIII?
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« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2012, 02:13:45 am »

^ I do!  My opinion is rather bias because I descend from the Careys, and I do consider myself to be a direct descendent of Henry VIII.  I think both of those children and some of the other children rumored belonged to him.  The fact that he failed to publicly acknowledge any of them means nothing because it took Henry VIII six years after the birth of Henry Fitzroy to publicly acknowledged the boy.  It makes you wonder if Catherine had given Henry a son during those six years would Fitzroy ever have been acknowledged either?

As for Anne of Cleves, she was not attractive in the traditional English sense.  She came from a German principality, could not speak very good English, and her sense of style and dress was not what Henry was accustom too.  Anne was also reared differently than most English noble women by that I mean she had been overly protected.  Many of the women in Henry's court were savvy in dress and manner and/or they knew how to flirt and flatter Henry. 

However, the story goes that after Henry's fling with Catherine Howard, he came to realize the mature qualities in Anne of Cleves that would have made her a good Queen and mother.  They were very good friends until the day he died.
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Snokitty
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« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2012, 11:19:34 pm »

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The QM really was a troubled individual. So resentful, melodramatic, and histrionic.  A champion manipulator.
thumbsup

This is how I always viewed her. She did manipulate the press and the public masterfully though.  shifty
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Snokitty
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« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2013, 01:48:25 am »

http://news.sky.com/story/1108966/henry-viii-would-be-a-modern-day-psychopath
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A study of some of the most successful people in British history has found that only one - Henry VIII - was a psychopath.

Professor Kevin Dutton assessed ten people regarded as among Britain's greatest to determine how psychopathic they were.

He found that Henry VIII was in the same category as dangerous criminals like Ian Brady or other serial killers, but others who had fought their way to the top were not.

Prof Dutton's experiment was inspired by psychologist William James who claimed that anyone who had been determined by history as successful was likely to score highly as a psychopath.

The theory was that in order to be highly successful, a person had to show the sort of charm, selfishness and ruthlessness common to psychopaths.

When ranked against the 'psychopathic spectrum', Henry VIII - who beheaded two of his wives - scored 174 against a 'starting' psychopath score of 168.

But others, like war leader Winston Churchill, romantic poet Lord Byron and top scientist Isaac Newton, scored lower.
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berlin
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« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2013, 03:33:39 am »

The only things Henry VIII is known for are his wives.  I don't know why he's considered among the greatest.
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terrajoule
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« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2013, 04:14:37 am »

Henry VIII would be what is called a charming psychopath. Dr. Robert Hare (author of the psychopath checklist used in law enforcement) wrote about it http://m.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath. He also has a book called Without a Conscience.
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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2013, 05:33:57 am »

The only things Henry VIII is known for are his wives.  I don't know why he's considered among the greatest.

It is because he broke the stranglehold that the Catholic church had on everyone.
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terrajoule
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« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2013, 06:34:21 am »

  He was/is known as "Father of the English Navy". He is reputed to have composed 'Greensleeves' and 'Helas Madame'.
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I am a collection of dismantled almosts. -Anne Sexton, from A Self-Portrait In Letters
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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2013, 02:03:08 pm »

Yes he was a very accomplished ruler who employed very intelligent people. His breaking of the stranglehold the Catholic church had was what set up the future. There would have been no Spanish invasion for Elizabeth I if not for that and that helped seal the British Navy being superior even though they had a lot of luck provided by Mother Nature.

Many things happened under Henry VIII some were good and some were bad. He was a tyrant in every sense of the word.
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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2013, 06:34:30 pm »

A lot of his worst excesses came from the fact that he had hooked up with Anne Boleyn and his main goal was to get his marriage annulled, not just a divorce. If it had been a French or Spanish princess, I think the pope would have readily granted a divorce or even annulment. Maybe Katherine would have ended up being more amenable to withdrawing from the marriage. It was Anne herself that provoked so much dislike. There were excesses in the Church, but Anne's protege Cromwell was determined not to reform, but to destroy the Faith in England completely. Anne brought a lot more problems and I believe that a lot of deaths could have been prevented. This is a man who executed Sir Thomas More and Cardinal Fisher for the succession and supremacy issue. It was Cromwell who egged Harry on and if not for Anne, there would have been no destruction of a lot of good people.
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« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2013, 08:22:40 pm »

Anne was against the total destruction. That is why she and Cromwell were on the outs. Henry VIII is the one at fault.

Anne did not chase Henry but the other way around. Anne wanted to marry Percy but the King had his eye on her and after that her marriage prospects were slim because no one was going to go against the King. Anne was also used by her male relatives to progress their standing. Henry is to blame for everything that Henry did.
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tequiero
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2013, 09:41:54 pm »

Actually, a lot of his excesses came from the fact that he was totally and completely obsessed to have a male heir and he blamed Catherine for not giving him the son(s) (for their sons being stillborn or dieing very very young). He was over the moon when Bessie Blount gave birth to a healthy son. It soothed his bruised male ego and proved to all people that there was nothing wrong with him and he could successfully father healthy children to secure the succession.

Henry sought an annulment becuase there is no such thing as divorce in Catholic Church. What is more, an annulment doesn't affect children born from the union so if the Pope had granted H&C the annulment, Mary would still have been in the line of succession as Henry's heiress, of course after her brother(s)-to-be.

I think the best option for Catherine was to go to a convent and became a nun. She was a deeply religious person and the life devoted to preyers and God would suit her. She should have agreed to an annulment and made a deal with Henry protecting the rights of Mary. Maybe taking a highway would have been the best option for both women. Catherine would have maintained many privileges and made sure her daughter was taken care of. Maybe Mary would have found a good match and had a happy marriage with a bunch of children. Chances are she wouldn't end up paranoid, lonely and abandoned yearning to see his long gone husband.  And Henry for sure wouldn't dare to vent his frustrations concering her mother at her. And many people would still consider Henry a pig  tehe


And truth be told, if it wasn't for the Boleyns, there would be other families trying to throw their daughters at Henry. Being the King's mistress was a huge honour after all and it brought a great deal of wealth to those happy ones. And many were trying to achieve that. Only that they weren't as successful as Anne's father and uncle. Apart from the Seymours, of course. But they all paid the ultimate price for that. Only Howard got away as he was one of Anne's judges. Her father had to watch his beloved daughter and only son being innocently beheaded. Both Seymour brothers' end was the same. Karma just came full circle.
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« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2013, 10:09:54 pm »

 thumbsup   goodpost  ITA
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Tatiana
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« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2013, 04:42:36 am »

  Henry is the original Tony Soprano .. complicated, brutal, love struck, angry, frustrated, vengeful .. he learned well from his father.... Arthur, had he lived..our history might have been very, very different.

  Most of his wives didn't want him.. he pursued them, the last being very fearful and upset when she was told to marry Henry.

   Some very eloquent posts on this thread.  thumbsup
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 04:45:10 am by Tatiana » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2013, 06:50:29 am »

I wonder how different things might have been if Henry hadn't married Katherine of Aragon, but had instead married a younger princess more around his own age (or younger). It might have changed things; he might have had more children, healthy children, and ended up with quite a few sons in the bargain. After seven wasted years over Katherine, he then waited a decade to marry Anne Boleyn, then wasting more years of his prime breeding time and while married to her, gained a ton of weight after his leg problems started and gave up jousting.

Quote
Actually, a lot of his excesses came from the fact that he was totally and completely obsessed to have a male heir and he blamed Catherine for not giving him the son(s) (for their sons being stillborn or dieing very very young). He was over the moon when Bessie Blount gave birth to a healthy son. It soothed his bruised male ego and proved to all people that there was nothing wrong with him and he could successfully father healthy children to secure the succession.

Yes; there was also the paranoid worry that God was displeased with him and nothing apparently sent Henry scurrying around in fear than the idea that God wasn't approving of anything he did or didn't approve of Harry in general.
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« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2013, 11:30:35 am »

As I recall Katherine of Aragon won a battle while Henry was doing nothing significant in France.

So perhaps if he hadn't married Katherine that won the battle in England, King Henry might have lost his throne.
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