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Author Topic: Camilla's role on Charles' family  (Read 38004 times)
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sandy
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« Reply #280 on: August 28, 2014, 12:01:49 pm »

He was not perfect. But when he died Camilla took over as mentor which was not exactly a good thing.
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AnaBolena
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« Reply #281 on: August 28, 2014, 06:21:03 pm »


It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either.

I agree in total.  I've already said that. 

Quote
Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

I'm not interested in Bradford particularly - she's about as believable as Junor IMO.  Although yes, they had to have been somewhat intimate or we wouldn't have Harry. 

Quote
Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Well, morning sickness kind of goes with pregnancy and I can tell you, it's not the end of the world despite how horrid it can feel, and I don't know why Kate was permitted what she was other than the fact that the queen may not care if she's around or not.   I did read that Diana stated her fertility was never tested and Fergie backed the statement up.

Quote
Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Incorrect!  Extremely incorrect.  Unstable people go every day for help with illnesses ranging from eating disorders right through to more serious disorders.  Many of these people are highly intelligent and carry on their public lives very differently from their private lives with the exceptions of paranoid schizophrenics and such like, although even some schizoidal type personalities are capable of 'acting' normal.  By the way, Bulimia, self harm and suicide attempts are hallmarks of mental illness each within their own right.  Bulimia alone in the DSM is a mental illness. 

You mention Penny Junor whom I grant very little credence to, but apart from her,  Diana's mental health is actually quite the debate for professionals.  They are permitted to say what they 'think', but her (Diana's) Doctors are never permitted to open the books and tell the world. No Psychs are on any person.  K.F is correct, although that doesn't extend to those who have not treated her taking a well educated guess.

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Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22. 

Quote
I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

On this we shall have to agree to disagree. I believe Charles was highly neglected by his mother (there are written examples of this) and by his father.  Anne not so much so as she was of a nature that appealed to her father very much whereas Charles could do no good by his Father.

I do agree that using mum and dad should not go on forever, but in both C and D's case I fully believe they were both damaged by their childhoods and didn't have the knowledge as to how to comfort each other as husband and wife.

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Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.

I never said she was!   Shocked
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AnaBolena
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« Reply #282 on: August 28, 2014, 06:26:31 pm »

cause Uncle Dickie was such a tower or moral approbrium - this is the guy who admitted publically and I quote

" "Edwina and I spent all our married lives getting into other people's beds"

I'd say he was Charles role model.

 laugh  thanks for the laugh, Cate  thankyou
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CathyJane
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« Reply #283 on: August 28, 2014, 07:48:45 pm »

 laugh
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sandy
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« Reply #284 on: August 28, 2014, 08:57:56 pm »


It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either.

I agree in total.  I've already said that.  

Quote
Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

I'm not interested in Bradford particularly - she's about as believable as Junor IMO.  Although yes, they had to have been somewhat intimate or we wouldn't have Harry.  

Quote
Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Well, morning sickness kind of goes with pregnancy and I can tell you, it's not the end of the world despite how horrid it can feel, and I don't know why Kate was permitted what she was other than the fact that the queen may not care if she's around or not.   I did read that Diana stated her fertility was never tested and Fergie backed the statement up.

Quote
Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Incorrect!  Extremely incorrect.  Unstable people go every day for help with illnesses ranging from eating disorders right through to more serious disorders.  Many of these people are highly intelligent and carry on their public lives very differently from their private lives with the exceptions of paranoid schizophrenics and such like, although even some schizoidal type personalities are capable of 'acting' normal.  By the way, Bulimia, self harm and suicide attempts are hallmarks of mental illness each within their own right.  Bulimia alone in the DSM is a mental illness.  

You mention Penny Junor whom I grant very little credence to, but apart from her,  Diana's mental health is actually quite the debate for professionals.  They are permitted to say what they 'think', but her (Diana's) Doctors are never permitted to open the books and tell the world. No Psychs are on any person.  K.F is correct, although that doesn't extend to those who have not treated her taking a well educated guess.

Quote
Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22.  

Quote
I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

On this we shall have to agree to disagree. I believe Charles was highly neglected by his mother (there are written examples of this) and by his father.  Anne not so much so as she was of a nature that appealed to her father very much whereas Charles could do no good by his Father.

I do agree that using mum and dad should not go on forever, but in both C and D's case I fully believe they were both damaged by their childhoods and didn't have the knowledge as to how to comfort each other as husband and wife.

Quote
Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.

I never said she was!   Shocked

Diana saying she did not have the test is hearsay. I never read anywhere of her saying this. If she were infertile I doubt Charles would have married her since heirs were important to him.

Again, why do you keep up the personal comments about my post for Jane. It is off topic and inappropriate. Catch 22 again. Stop going off topic please. I was not attacking Jane and I have every right to think calling Diana "crazy" inappropriate. I was disagreeing with Jane's Opinion which I am allowed to do. Your making assumptions about what I posted to Jane is IMO getting personal with me  AB and truly out of line. You happen to agree with Jane about Diana but I have every right to disagree with Diana  being called "crazy". I think you are bordering on a personal attack of me.

You apparently think Diana was unstable but once again it is your take on her and a bit on the harsh side. She was put in an awful position and I don't blame her for being stressed by it and this is not being "unstable." And once again, Charles sympathizers constantly play the Unstable Diana card which shows some bias. Again, Diana got over the symptoms of bulimia and got it treated. What else did you want her to do?  Anybody can sit down and look at celebrities and say I think he or she is unstable but unless the person has treated the person they cannot possibly know the person is unstable. Heaven help the medical profession if random people are "qualified" to say people they never met are "unstable."  You have your opinion about Diana and I have mine. It is the old defense for the straying husband to say he was married to an "unstable" woman and of course was justified in cheating on her.  I think it is no coincidence that Charles sympathizers play the Diana was unstable card. Diana had an eating disorder brought about by stress.  Think of parents who have bulimic children they love them and don't see them as "crazy" and many of the children to get help and lead productive lives. 

Charles even made fun of Diana's bulimia which makes him appear like a cold blooded bully. That is not "healthy" in the least.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 09:07:54 pm by sandy » Logged
AnaBolena
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« Reply #285 on: August 28, 2014, 10:53:02 pm »

Sandy, I was not making any such thing as a personal attack on you - it wasn't even close!

This is exactly what transpired - I couldn't exactly keep up one subject all on my own, could I?

I said:
Earlier in the posts you said to Jane 'why don't you tell us what you really think about Diana'.  Or words to that effect.  Now if I recall, Jane is very young and still in her twenties, should she not gain concessions for her youth? 

You replied:
Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

I replied:
I don't for one second get the impression that Jane loathes Diana.  I've never had that impression at all.  I think Jane sees what she sees and says it. 
I see some of her thought processes as very strange even those written pre marriage, pre Charles.  Something was not quite right there way before she married, but on the other hand neither was Charles!

You replied:
Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

I replied:
Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.

(That was clearly my end to the topic)

You replied:
Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

I replied:
It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22. 


I shall leave it at that, but please don't accuse me falsely again for being what I felt was polite in replying to you.  I at no time made a personal attack on you.

Yes, I do believe Diana was unstable.  No person on this earth could be classified as stable whilst purging their food, self harming and making suicide attempts.  Just making a suicide attempt can get an every day person sectioned for minimum of three days.  Do you think 'stable' people are sectioned???  Diana needed help medically on a serious level.

As a woman who once suffered Anorexia Nervosa as a young girl I think I can speak with a little knowledge on the subject of eating disorders.  It is a mental illness. 











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sandy
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« Reply #286 on: August 29, 2014, 12:19:03 am »

Ana Bolena you are practically acting like some sort of a judge putting me on trial. Even putting up "evidence."

You are way out of line Ana Bolena.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 12:21:54 am by sandy » Logged
sandy
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« Reply #287 on: August 29, 2014, 12:26:47 am »

Diana was not unstable. She was put in a terrible situation.

I think Charles and Camilla have a lot to answer for.

Nobody who did not treat Diana cannot diagnose her.
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« Reply #288 on: August 29, 2014, 12:43:53 am »

Sandy, I totally agree with everything you have said throughout this thread. The facts are very clear. Poor Diana was put in a terrible situation with Charles and his family. They are a ruthless, passive aggressive lot who are nothing but weak, nasty, sneaky bullies. They disgust me. And with the added factor, of Charles' nasty mean old ambitious rottweiller behind the scenes calling the shots regarding their marriage. HM should have stepped up and put an end to all of their machinations to this TEENAGE VIRGIN but she didn't. Hence the consequences were tragic and quite horrific.
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india
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« Reply #289 on: August 29, 2014, 12:45:30 am »

By the way, AnaBolena: leave Sandy alone.
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AnaBolena
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« Reply #290 on: August 29, 2014, 02:01:03 am »

Ana Bolena you are practically acting like some sort of a judge putting me on trial. Even putting up "evidence."

You are way out of line Ana Bolena.

I didn't put up evidence.  Shocked

I stood up for myself against you accusing me of 'almost attacking you'. 

Sandy, there's an old saying 'it takes nothing to join the crowd but everything to stand alone.'  I debate with you out of interest with no malevolence intended or even felt, even when we disagree.  But I don't have backers and yes, it does take some guts to stand alone.

You say I am way out of line?  For standing up for myself? 

 dontknow
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AnaBolena
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« Reply #291 on: August 29, 2014, 02:04:27 am »

By the way, AnaBolena: leave Sandy alone.

India, with all due respect, Sandy stands on her own merit quite admirably.   Kiss
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« Reply #292 on: August 29, 2014, 02:14:03 am »

Sandy, I totally agree with everything you have said throughout this thread. The facts are very clear. Poor Diana was put in a terrible situation with Charles and his family. They are a ruthless, passive aggressive lot who are nothing but weak, nasty, sneaky bullies. They disgust me. And with the added factor, of Charles' nasty mean old ambitious rottweiller behind the scenes calling the shots regarding their marriage. HM should have stepped up and put an end to all of their machinations to this TEENAGE VIRGIN but she didn't. Hence the consequences were tragic and quite horrific.

thank you.  I don't know what else there is to say--she had a bad time with C and C and is even derided after she is dead. Charles has to try to justify what he did and even if it means his cronies labeling his late wife and making fake diagnoses.

Charles unfortunately was in the thrall of the other woman and thought he could have the best of both worlds--a life with a fertile woman who could give birth to his heirs and time with the mistress who called the shots all the way.

Camilla saw off women like Anna Wallace and Kanga Tryon and though it took longer, managed to oust Diana.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 02:15:53 am by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #293 on: August 29, 2014, 05:17:08 am »

After review, there are numerous issues within the postings that I feel fall outside of Forum Rules.  First, and I'll admit that the topic of this thread is quite loose in its boundaries, there are posters who have made personal attacks, gone into Diana territory which is off topic I do believe and so, secondly, I'm shutting it down for a cooling off period and also to better define what the topic focus should be.  It will be closed for one week and I'll get back to you.  In the meantime, take a breather, consider other poster's POVs and we'll resume after a distancing and hopefully perspective change.  Thank you.  YM
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