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Author Topic: Camilla's role on Charles' family  (Read 38005 times)
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sandy
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« Reply #260 on: August 25, 2014, 03:18:56 pm »

Diana broke up with Hoare not the other way around. You can look it up.

When the man gets absolved and Diana gets demonized it seems a bit on the sexist side--Hoare cheated on his wife previously so this was a practice of seeing other women on the side. He was no angel so it is all not on Diana's shoulders.

Wharfe said Hoare called Diana up all the time and pursued her and he was there.

And then there was Diana's husband feeling anything goes--and married women were not off limits.  He was being "civilized" according to the Highgrove Set. There was a documentary about Lady Tryon and her hubby played the civilized husband waiting a respectable length of time to return home to give Charles dibs on his wife. Gross.

As I said had Charles not just seen Diana as a means to an end and dropped the mistress, I think they could have made a go of the marriage. He wanted heirs and there was Diana...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 03:22:33 pm by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #261 on: August 25, 2014, 03:42:46 pm »

And when the woman is sainted for everything she does and the man is demonized in total for every crime the saint ever committed I just shake my head in disbelief.

http://martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/aug2007/diana_myth.html

The term "stalker" did not come from me.  Calling someone as many times as she did IS stalking. It matters nought who broke up with whom and who knows the truth anyway?

As for them ever having a relationship I read in one book that Charles had said words to the effect of preferring death over more time with Diana.


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« Reply #262 on: August 25, 2014, 03:44:38 pm »

I notice that the men are not demonized by some, it's just Diana who is condemned.

Nobody said Diana was a saint.

Charles talking about Diana that way just shows what a jerk he is. He got his kids from he then threw her away like a peach pit. How anybody can think that man "kind" is beyond me.

Charles expected Diana to bear his children and look the other way while he went off and did a married women who lived at convenient driving distance. what sort of a man acts that way?  Diana just pestered Charles so much and the poor guy deserved to be happy with his mistress.

And APB and Lord Tryon rolled over and played dead so Diana should have been tolerant. Such torture for Chuck.
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« Reply #263 on: August 25, 2014, 03:55:32 pm »

Sandy, with all due respect, by permitting Diana an excuse on absolutely everything and anything she did is no one sainting her but yourself by way of always exempting her from the realms of humanity. 

I'm not saying there was excuses for Charles and everything he did, there isn't.  He wasn't perfect by a long shot, but according to your own words Diana could never,ever,ever do anything wrong or anything she could be held responsible for.

I admit, I don't understand Diana, but neither do I understand logically how you appear to view her as someone who has never, and could never be held culpable. 

Earlier in the posts you said to Jane 'why don't you tell us what you really think about Diana'.  Or words to that effect.  Now if I recall, Jane is very young and still in her twenties, should she not gain concessions for her youth? 

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« Reply #264 on: August 25, 2014, 04:05:30 pm »

Had it been normal circumstances, Diana would have divorced and gotten custody of the children had she realized Charles preferred someone else. She could have walked away. But she was married to the Prince of Wales, divorce discouraged and the children could have been taken her from had she "bolted."

She was put in a spot that nobody should have to deal with.

Did I say Diana could never do wrong?  But I think Charles did not do right by her from the get go. If he wanted a broodmare and knew he preferred Camilla he should have spelled this all out to Diana before he proposed. He could have found somebody who would go with the perks and not expect love. IMO. He married Diana for expediency's sake. Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana wondered how Charles could marry a girl so besotted with him knowing he preferred Camilla. And Charles admitted this to Dimbleby that he preferred Camilla. That is wrong on so many levels.

Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

Alexandra looked the other way when Edward cheated rampantly on her.  But at least he did not leave her bed for good when he ran to one of his mistresses--he did not stop at 2 children because the mistress told him to. But Alexandra paid a price, she clung to her children a little too much dressing her adult daughters in little girls outfits, and keeping a daughter from marrying so she'd have a lifelong companion. She was sickly and used passive aggression on Edward.  Diana was only 23 and could not divorce so I guess she should have stayed celibate and watch Charles go to live it up with Camilla. I think had Diana not sought comfort elsewhere she might have been like Alexandra, sickly and long suffering. I think women should not be treated as chattel to put up or shut up. Diana was right to complain.

I also might have felt less critical of Charles had he not sat back and let his cronies put out the Diana is Crazy and Promiscuous spin which Jane apparently believes. Such spin re: a dead woman is wrong on many levels. Joan Rivers is a good friend of Charles and cackles on TV trashing Diana.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 04:10:31 pm by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #265 on: August 25, 2014, 04:40:56 pm »

Had it been normal circumstances, Diana would have divorced and gotten custody of the children had she realized Charles preferred someone else. She could have walked away. But she was married to the Prince of Wales, divorce discouraged and the children could have been taken her from had she "bolted."

True.  I do agree with this, although she could have bolted before getting pregnant. She could have taken the pill and chosen to leave.

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She was put in a spot that nobody should have to deal with.

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Did I say Diana could never do wrong?  But I think Charles did not do right by her from the get go. If he wanted a broodmare and knew he preferred Camilla he should have spelled this all out to Diana before he proposed. He could have found somebody who would go with the perks and not expect love. IMO. He married Diana for expediency's sake. Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana wondered how Charles could marry a girl so besotted with him knowing he preferred Camilla. And Charles admitted this to Dimbleby that he preferred Camilla. That is wrong on so many levels.

No, you have not said she could do no wrong, but anything she had got up to you excuse, and in a way it comes over as Diana being able to do no wrong by omission of any words that state 'ok what Diana did here wasn't such a great idea' or words to that effect.

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Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

I don't for one second get the impression that Jane loathes Diana.  I've never had that impression at all.  I think Jane sees what she sees and says it. 
I see some of her thought processes as very strange even those written pre marriage, pre Charles.  Something was not quite right there way before she married, but on the other hand neither was Charles!

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Alexandra looked the other way when Edward cheated rampantly on her.  But at least he did not leave her bed for good when he ran to one of his mistresses--he did not stop at 2 children because the mistress told him to. But Alexandra paid a price, she clung to her children a little too much dressing her adult daughters in little girls outfits, and keeping a daughter from marrying so she'd have a lifelong companion. She was sickly and used passive aggression on Edward.  Diana was only 23 and could not divorce so I guess she should have stayed celibate and watch Charles go to live it up with Camilla. I think had Diana not sought comfort elsewhere she might have been like Alexandra, sickly and long suffering. I think women should not be treated as chattel to put up or shut up. Diana was right to complain.

No, not for one second do I think celibacy was the answer for Diana or any woman.  I think under the circumstances waiting for a divorce or legal separation would have helped, or at least withheld herself from the Morton book and Panorama interview.  IMO the latter lost her a lot of respect.  I agree she was right for her to complain and want out, most certainly.  But no one on this earth can convince me that Charles didn't love her to begin with - there is too much photographic evidence to support that love did exist and something killed it, and I'm not convinced it was Camilla.

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I also might have felt less critical of Charles had he not sat back and let his cronies put out the Diana is Crazy and Promiscuous spin which Jane apparently believes. Such spin re: a dead woman is wrong on many levels. Joan Rivers is a good friend of Charles and cackles on TV trashing Diana.

In fairness Charles isn't responsible for what Joan Rivers does.  He is responsible for what he does.   Each of us are responsible for ourselves and cannot control another.  I'm unsure of what I think about Diana's mental stability, but I don't use the word 'crazy' despite a disorder any person may have. 

Diana did exhibit signs of two disorders without Charles saying a word.  I honestly have never heard Charles say anything about Diana's mental stability and don't really care to.  I've seen a lot being married to a psych though, and some people with disorders are the most brilliant, clever and talented people you could hope to meet, but can be hell to live with.
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« Reply #266 on: August 25, 2014, 08:48:40 pm »

Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 08:55:21 pm by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #267 on: August 26, 2014, 01:26:53 pm »

Sandy, I must commend you on all of your well researched balanced knowledge of the marriage between Charles and Diana. Your insight is excellent. I completely agree with all that you said. If Camillia hadn't been behing the scene being the grand puppet master controling Charles, that marriage would have surely survived. It is so tragic that it didn't.  Camilla has a lot to answer for. I hope she is happy where she is today with all of the jewels, power and status. I sure wouldn't be able to enjoy it with that kind of massive guilt on my head. There is going to be a major day of reckoning for her. And, it won't be pretty.
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« Reply #268 on: August 26, 2014, 02:28:19 pm »

ITA Sandy.
I read a piece about Diana's father recently and he was depressed for years when Diana's mother ran off.
Her childhood was not easy and that's why she IMO must have been madly in love with Chuck.
Otherwise she wouldn't have married so soon and so young, I guess she thought that love would conquer all( as girls of that age think).
Chuck was lucky to have a young beautiful vibrant wife but he threw it all away on the Wrinkly Homewrecker who plays him like fool, the Tampon Tapes illustrate that.
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« Reply #269 on: August 27, 2014, 08:59:30 am »

Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.


Problem is The Prince never gave Dimbleby an interview he just let the man do his thing there NO proof whatsoever he has ever bashed his parents or Di in fact when Dimbleby wanted to write Di was basically insane The Prince's people stopped him and he has said so ...
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« Reply #270 on: August 27, 2014, 10:58:35 am »

Diana was not insane.
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« Reply #271 on: August 27, 2014, 03:03:19 pm »

Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.


Problem is The Prince never gave Dimbleby an interview he just let the man do his thing there NO proof whatsoever he has ever bashed his parents or Di in fact when Dimbleby wanted to write Di was basically insane The Prince's people stopped him and he has said so ...

Did you read the book Jane? It is full of criticism of the way his parents raised him even down to their missing one of his birthdays. If there were not bashing how come his siblings complained? Read the book Jane before making statements that he did not do it.

Diana was not insane. Again the bashing of a dead woman.

Diana was still alive when the Dimbleby book came out, had he made statements about her "sanity" Diana would have hit him with a lawsuit. Diana and Dimbleby met in person and he never said she was "insane."

Did you see the interview on TV Jane, Charles did give Dimbleby an interview. And he let Dimbleby have access to his friends and his papers. Dimbleby had to run things by the Prince. Do you honestly think Charles just would let Dimbleby write the book without his full cooperation and approval of the contents? Dimbleby was the Authorized Biographer for the Prince.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 03:05:14 pm by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #272 on: August 27, 2014, 04:33:33 pm »

Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Sandy, I apologize for not spelling out every word and detail.  From what is written Diana always took the pill, therefore she was not averse to taking the pill.  If she was so unhappy from the get go - that is what I mean - then she could have prevented children which would have got her out a lot sooner.  That fertility test was quashed by both her and Fergie as being false information as was any checks on virginity, although Diana's uncle vouched for her virginity even though it is questioned.  How an uncle could vouch for that - just shaking my head.  huh



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Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

Who would have stopped her physically from walking out?  

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AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

I 'seem' to is the operative word'.  Diana could well have been allergic to other forms of contraception - many women are - I am one of those women!

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Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.


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Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

There is never, ever, ever one person alone responsible for the breakdown of a marriage.  Please point out where I excuse Charles from the part he played?  Or is it simply that you don't read me saying 'Charles was wrong to do this.'?  Just like I say to you with Diana?   I have forever said this marriage or farce of a marriage sits with many grey areas - there is no black and white possible because both parties were damaged goods to begin with - yes, from their childhoods. Both!!!!!  Neither were capable of giving each other what they needed.  Both missed out. Both were lonely and miserable.

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Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

I have never seen the Dimbleby interview, but would very much like to.  I have read of how Charles was treated by his so-called Mother, and in all honesty the queen wasn't a good mother - she did neglect her son. Fact.  Diana also suffered as a child. Fact!

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Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

True.  I am not a psychiatrist. But how can you state with such outright certainty what I'm qualified for and what I'm not ?  Pray tell because I'm very interested.

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Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

What would it take for you to actually accept that I'm on no ones 'side'?  I left that behavior long gone in my childhood.
You do verbally excuse Diana for absolutely everything.  I excuse neither party.

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Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

Yes, there is a LOT wrong with Charles doing that to Diana.  Diana also did her fair share. This is why I stand by the fact that they both sabotaged their marriage.  IMO it should never have been.

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You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.

Pardon? I never said any such thing.  What I stated, perhaps poorly, was that Charles need not have said a word - Diana exposed herself by things she self-admitted, at the time this was not a smart move on her part as she painted herself as emotionally unstable.  She gave out too much for anyone with any knowledge to ever state she was a stable person.
I have not ever praised Charles!

For the record, I am not one of Penny Junor's followers or believers nor have I ever been.  I do not, nor ever have thought Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder!  Period!



« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:36:46 pm by AnaBolena » Logged

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« Reply #273 on: August 27, 2014, 07:05:43 pm »

IMO no matter how you look at it Chuck should cut Campon out.
He should have done that for her EVEN when nothing was going on at that time.
Diana felt threatened by her and rightly so, as history has proven!
Chuck entered the marriage in his thirties while Diana was barely out of her teens, he could have sought therapy to deal with his upbringing and be a giving husband.
But no: Chuck blames his mother( had a kingdom to run), his father(was neglected and traumatized his entire childhood and only at Gordonstoun found a sense of belonging).
He blames his teenage pregnant wife but NEVER blames himself and takes responsibility.
As a pensioner he is still dependent on his ruthless scheming mistress/nanny and Campon needs it to stay that way.
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« Reply #274 on: August 27, 2014, 09:05:05 pm »

Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Sandy, I apologize for not spelling out every word and detail.  From what is written Diana always took the pill, therefore she was not averse to taking the pill.  If she was so unhappy from the get go - that is what I mean - then she could have prevented children which would have got her out a lot sooner.  That fertility test was quashed by both her and Fergie as being false information as was any checks on virginity, although Diana's uncle vouched for her virginity even though it is questioned.  How an uncle could vouch for that - just shaking my head.  huh



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Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

Who would have stopped her physically from walking out?  

Quote

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

I 'seem' to is the operative word'.  Diana could well have been allergic to other forms of contraception - many women are - I am one of those women!

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Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.


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Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

There is never, ever, ever one person alone responsible for the breakdown of a marriage.  Please point out where I excuse Charles from the part he played?  Or is it simply that you don't read me saying 'Charles was wrong to do this.'?  Just like I say to you with Diana?   I have forever said this marriage or farce of a marriage sits with many grey areas - there is no black and white possible because both parties were damaged goods to begin with - yes, from their childhoods. Both!!!!!  Neither were capable of giving each other what they needed.  Both missed out. Both were lonely and miserable.

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Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

I have never seen the Dimbleby interview, but would very much like to.  I have read of how Charles was treated by his so-called Mother, and in all honesty the queen wasn't a good mother - she did neglect her son. Fact.  Diana also suffered as a child. Fact!

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Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

True.  I am not a psychiatrist. But how can you state with such outright certainty what I'm qualified for and what I'm not ?  Pray tell because I'm very interested.

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Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

What would it take for you to actually accept that I'm on no ones 'side'?  I left that behavior long gone in my childhood.
You do verbally excuse Diana for absolutely everything.  I excuse neither party.

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Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

Yes, there is a LOT wrong with Charles doing that to Diana.  Diana also did her fair share. This is why I stand by the fact that they both sabotaged their marriage.  IMO it should never have been.

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You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.

Pardon? I never said any such thing.  What I stated, perhaps poorly, was that Charles need not have said a word - Diana exposed herself by things she self-admitted, at the time this was not a smart move on her part as she painted herself as emotionally unstable.  She gave out too much for anyone with any knowledge to ever state she was a stable person.
I have not ever praised Charles!

For the record, I am not one of Penny Junor's followers or believers nor have I ever been.  I do not, nor ever have thought Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder!  Period!





It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either. Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 09:10:28 pm by sandy » Logged
Kuei Fei
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« Reply #275 on: August 27, 2014, 10:26:26 pm »

EVERYONE CALM DOWN NOW!

As for psychiatrists, they have to keep their mouths shut or be prosecuted.
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« Reply #276 on: August 27, 2014, 11:21:40 pm »

Diana's therapist did speak out.

I honestly don't believe she is the  "madwoman" of the spin of Charles' pals..

The basic problem was the anachronistic life of the royal family and that Charles had a huge "Edwardian" outlook being close to the Edwardians the Queen Mum and Lord Mountbatten. Mountbatten in a letter that became public chided Charles about his lifestyle saying he'd end up like his great uncle Edward VIII. He must have seen some danger signs in Charles' future and he was right.

I think had Lord Mountbatten lived Charles would have married Amanda Knatchbull and Camilla would have been kept at bay.
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« Reply #277 on: August 28, 2014, 03:49:32 am »

That's what I've always thought too, Sandy. Uncle Dickie would have seen off Cammie.
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« Reply #278 on: August 28, 2014, 07:05:22 am »

Absolutely, Sandy. There would have been none of this weak, nasty foolishness from PC or his team if Uncle Dickie had been alive. And Good God Almighty, there would certainly be no Middleton factor today either.
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« Reply #279 on: August 28, 2014, 07:17:43 am »

cause Uncle Dickie was such a tower or moral approbrium - this is the guy who admitted publically and I quote

" "Edwina and I spent all our married lives getting into other people's beds"

I'd say he was Charles role model.
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