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Author Topic: The Gun Debate In The USA  (Read 5877 times)
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RoyalWatcher
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« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2013, 06:01:59 pm »

Don't fall for the propaganda of the N.R.A....they don't speak for all gun owners.  In fact, I'd say that they are on the wrong side of this debate.

Most people are o.k. with limiting the access of high capacity magazines, most people are o.k. with doing comprehensive background checks, and limiting the access of semi-automatics to the general population.

Do I think it goes far enough?  Not really.  I'd like to see a total ban on civilian semi-automatics with more than a three shot capacity, but its something.  I think that gun owners should be licensed, and have it renewed annually, along with carrying a personal liability policy of $1,000,000 dollars in case their gun is used in a crime or stolen.   I also would like to see potential new gun owners have to have counseling prior to purchasing a weapon, at the minimum a three day waiting period and then have to see another "gun counselor" to make sure that they aren't being coherced into purchasing such a weapon and the reasons why they need such a weapon.   Self-Defense doesn't count.  Treat gun owner wannabes like they treat woman who want to have an abortion, like children who can't make up their own minds and are easily led.

I do think it has a good chance at passing in the Senate, but with the House of Representatives controlled by the corporations of murder, I highly doubt it.
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bluhare
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« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2013, 07:04:23 pm »

I live in the US, although I'm British, and we are being inundated with robocalls calling for everyone to stand together to keep their guns.  It makes me sick.

I have no issue with having guns for hunting.  They are totally different than assault weapons and their ilk.  Self protection is another, but if you are supposed to keep it unloaded and locked up, how much good is that going to do you when you hear a noise downstairs?  Besides, there are way too many articles about children killing themselves or others playing with a parent's gun.  There are also guns you can buy that are not automatic but they're cheap and very easily modifiable to fire many more rounds than as manufactured.  I think Piers Morgan has balls for going public with his opinions, even though they are not well received because he's British.

I'm for gun control -- major gun control -- if you haven't figure that out yet!
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bluhare
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« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2013, 07:13:06 pm »

Don't fall for the propaganda of the N.R.A....they don't speak for all gun owners.  In fact, I'd say that they are on the wrong side of this debate.


The NRA is part of the problem, not the solution.  They basically are the gun manufacturers' lobby in Washington, and have more power than any lobby except perhaps AARP (for seniors).  Their arguments are almost laughable . . . like this morning calling Obama hypocritical because his daughters are protected by armed men.  Well, they are.  They're called Secret Service, and have protection because their father is the president and they are huge targets. The Royal Family has RPO's who are armed.  Why?  Because they're targets too. 

To use that as an argument that everyone should have uzi's to protect their families is ludicrous.  The thing about gun violence is the impersonality of it.  You don't have to get up close and personal to someone to shoot them.  Much, much easier than knives or strangulation.
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HC
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« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2013, 07:30:10 pm »

I agree.

The other day I read that in China the excact same day as the school shooting in USA, there was a mentally disturbed man that had the same intentions at a chinese school.

He attacked a number of children before he was stopped.

The difference was that he only had a knife. Several children was hospitalized but non of them died. The parents got the children home. Some of them with only one ear but alive.
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bluhare
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« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2013, 08:42:12 pm »

I agree.

The other day I read that in China the excact same day as the school shooting in USA, there was a mentally disturbed man that had the same intentions at a chinese school.

He attacked a number of children before he was stopped.

The difference was that he only had a knife. Several children was hospitalized but non of them died. The parents got the children home. Some of them with only one ear but alive.

Exactly.  I saw the photos of that man with his knife.  Wouldn't be surprised if he's been tried and executed already too.  It is China; I don't think they mess around!
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YooperModerator
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« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2013, 03:22:07 pm »

Yooper send me a mail this morning and asked me to post this article in her name seeing as how she can't from her I-pad.
I'm not gonna get into this discussion myself any further, I gave my opinion on this a few pages ago.
So If you have comments post them at Yooper
A

Quote
Myths about assault weapons
Jan. 17, 2013/ 6 Shevat, 5773

By Glenn Garvin

   
 Otherwise intelligent friend
   
   
 An otherwise intelligent friend of mine launched a recent rant against "weapons that automatically feed bullets and can fire 100 rounds per second. I just don't get why the Average Joe needs one. Can you explain it to me?" I couldn't, I admitted. But I could explain that there is no hand-held gun in the world that fires that fast.

Even the machine guns mounted on military helicopters top out around 67 rounds a second, and any Average Civilian Joe caught with one of those would go straight to jail. Automatic weapons — that is, anything that fires a continuous stream of bullets as long as you hold the trigger down — are technically not illegal for civilians in the United States, but they're so highly regulated that they might as well be.

My friend, who erroneously thinks that America is awash in machine guns that can cut somebody in two with the flick of a finger, is a good example of how the debate over "so-called" assault weapons perfectly embodies the lament of Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis when he said that "behind every argument is someone's ignorance."

The fact-free case for banning assault weapons — the definition is cloudy, but essentially they're rifles that have the stylish accoutrements of military weapons, including collapsible stocks and flash-suppressors, but not the lethal automatic firepower — is being made with arguments that are practically fact-free, by a segment of politicians and chattering-class pundits who believe guns and the people who own them are innately repellent. Over and over again, they say things that simply aren't true; they don't bother to check the actual facts because they don't care about the actual facts.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, just to pick a random but highly publicized example, last week theatrically demanded that his legislature "stop the madness" by banning assault weapons. "It's simple," Cuomo said. "No one hunts with an assault rifle."

Leave aside some relevant facts that Cuomo simply ignored: that the rate of violent crime in America is plummeting. That the murder rate is the lowest since the presidency of John F. Kennedy. That the Second Amendment doesn't condition the right to bear arms on their use in hunting.

Just consider Cuomo's simple factual claim: No one hunts with an assault weapon. It's totally, absolutely, ringingly false.

"I'm not sure how many people" hunt with rifles that could be called assault weapons, says Russ Chastain, a hunter who writes a popular Internet outdoors column ( http://hunting.about.com/). But he adds: "While the percentage is low, I believe it has been growing in recent years."

If the commercial instincts of the gun industry are to be trusted, the growth is fast and significant. The magazine Outdoor Life recently ran a comparative review of 14 hunting rifles that could be considered assault weapons and noted that "virtually every manufacturer is producing these guns."

The idea that nobody hunts with assault weapons is undoubtedly linked to the myth that they're like machine guns, emitting bullets in bursts that tear their targets to pieces. In fact, assault weapons are semi-automatic — that is, they fire one bullet each time you pull the trigger, a characteristic they share with practically every other gun in America. And they're far less likely to tear big game to pieces because they fire smaller-caliber bullets than conventional hunting rifles.

"The small bullets would often cause too little damage to efficiently kill a large game animal," says Chastain. Mostly assault weapons are used for hunting varmints, smaller animals like coyotes and prairie dogs that damage livestock or property.

Here's what assault weapons are not used for: killing human beings. Despite the enormous and understandable publicity generated by last year's massacre of Connecticut schoolchildren, it's extremely rare for assault weapons to be used in murders. Of the 12,664 people murdered in the United States in 2011, only 323 — less than 3 percent — were killed with rifles of any type, according to the FBI.

That's why a 2004 Justice Department study on the effectiveness of a federal ban on assault weapons from 1994 to 2003 concluded that the law didn't have much impact. (Even on school shootings: the Columbine massacre took place during 1997, when the law was in effect.)

"Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement," the study said, because assault weapons "were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban." Unfortunately, that sentence doesn't get quoted much, because it lacks the poetry of "stop the madness." It's just a fact.
 
To Ignore the Facts does not Change the Facts!

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\\\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\\\"  Thomas Jefferson
deGuernsey
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« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2013, 07:06:39 pm »

This gave me quite a bit to think about.  Thank you for posting.
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« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2013, 11:51:24 pm »

I wonder how many years Glenn Garvin has been a member of the NRA. He brings up some points that would have only come from the NRA. Assault weapons do kill massive numbers of people at one time that is why they call it a massacre instead of just a killing. Assault weapons were created to wipe out as many of the enemy as possible at one time.

The Constitution does not say guns are only for hunting but then look when it was written and the men who wrote it had no idea what an assault weapon were or that citizens would turn them on other citizens including babies.

The Constitution is a living document and was intended to be altered and changed because the men that wrote it were aware that life changes continually.
Quote
Automatic weapons — that is, anything that fires a continuous stream of bullets as long as you hold the trigger down — are technically not illegal for civilians in the United States, but they're so highly regulated that they might as well be.

If they are so highly regulated how did the Mother of a disturbed boy happen to buy one, it is because they need to be regulated.

This guy is so full of it and so pro NRA that his arguments would never hold up in a debate. I see they have changed the tactic from taking everyone's guns away to assault weapons don't really kill.   laugh


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Snokitty
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2013, 07:34:44 pm »

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8963781

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Snokitty
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« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 01:45:02 am »

http://www.theonion.com/articles/62yearold-with-gun-only-one-standing-between-natio,30984/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:teaser:default

A perfect depiction of most NRA members.   tehe
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Yooper
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 09:05:09 pm »

^^^Only stating the facts.  If they don't mesh with your pov, ignore 'em.
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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2013, 09:13:53 pm »

Don't worry I erased all the propaganda from my mind as soon as I read it.   loveshower
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Yooper
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2013, 09:40:15 pm »

And I don't have to subscribe to HuffPo!!!!!   easter-bunny easter-bunny
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Snokitty
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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2013, 09:43:36 pm »

No one ever said you did. 

I don't know what your problem is and I don't really care but everyone does not have to view the world the way you nor I do we are all allowed to have opposing views without the snarky *butt* under current sniping that you seem to be good at.
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Yooper
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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2013, 10:08:30 pm »

^Not sure what you're getting at.  Just trying to lighten this up a bit.  For me, I perhaps prefer informative information from the person's point of view, perhaps, and not mainly from the media, although I am at fault for that myself.

No offense intended.  It's only politics!
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\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\"  Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2013, 10:24:42 pm »

Sometimes the media does give a persons point of view but I will give you my personal point of view if that is what you want.

When you love a country and it is in trouble you do whatever it takes and make the necessary sacrifices to help said country recover from whatever the problems are.

Obama may not have done much to help with the problems although he has tried in some ways but he also has not done anything to make them terribly worse. These problems were caused by George Bush and the Republican Congress and they would already be getting better if it wasn't for all the game playing that the Republicans in the House have played over the last four years trying to make Obama a failure just so they could take back the White House. Their entire focus has been on their party's power instead of the betterment of the country. I admit there are some Democrats who are in the same boat with the Republicans.

People have got to start thinking about the country instead of party politics. No party cares more for the country than the other does but the people involved individually have to care more for the country than they do the party.

I pay no attention to propaganda from anywhere and I know it when I see it. I am neither Republican nor Democrat and I wish the system were set up so that we could get some new blood in Washington D.C. but for now Obama is President and unless I see him doing something to harm the country I shall support him.

I also have no use for people who cut and run when the going gets tough.
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RoyalWatcher
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« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2013, 12:06:47 am »

^  Yup.

I don't understand why the republicans don't like Obama...he's been a good republican since he's been in office.  I am a progressive Liberal who's been disappointed in what's happened, however, I thank my lucky stars that Sister Sara and her Mule, and Brother Romney along with Chuckie didn't get in.
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Yooper
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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2013, 12:11:05 am »

^^ thankyou, Snokitty!  Very informative.

^I'm neither Republican nor Democratic m'self.  And I don't think it's *despise*, I think it's more frustration at the enormous rush to make a mark for himself without considering the ramifications, but then all politicians do that to make themselves popular.  For me, the less government control, the better.  It can get out of control.  All one really has to do is look at the government run businesses to see that they are, at times, bad at business.

I found this also interesting.

Quote
Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder
 
Democrat Senator Shoots Intruder
 



State Senator R.C. Soles (D - NC)

Long time Anti-Gun Advocate State Senator R.C. Soles, 74, shot one of two intruders at his home just outside Tabor City , N.C. about 5 p.m. Sunday, the prosecutor for the politician's home county said.

 

The intruder, Kyle Blackburn, was taken to a South Carolina hospital, but the injuries were not reported to be life-threatening, according to Rex Gore, district attorney for Columbus, Bladen and Brunswick counties..

 

The State Bureau of Investigation and Columbus County Sheriff's Department are investigating the shooting, Gore said. Soles, who was not arrested, declined to discuss the incident Sunday evening.

 

"I am not in a position to talk to you," Soles said by telephone. "I'm right in the middle of an investigation."

 

The Senator, who has made a career of being against gun ownership for the general public, didn't hesitate to defend himself with his own gun when he believed he was in immediate danger and he was the victim.

 

In typical hypocritical liberal fashion, the "Do as I say and not as I do" Anti-Gun Activist Lawmaker picked up his gun and took action in what apparently was a self-defense shooting.

 

Why hypocritical you may ask? It is because his long legislative record shows that the actions that he took to protect his family, his own response to a dangerous life threatening situation, are actions that he feels ordinary citizens should not have if they were faced with an identical situation.

It has prompted some to ask if the Senator believes his life and personal safety is more valuable than yours or mine.  But, this is to be expected from those who believe they can run our lives, raise our kids, and protect our families better than we can.

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\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\"  Thomas Jefferson
Snokitty
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2013, 12:43:34 am »

The President may be the leader of the country but there is very little that he can do without Congress so they are as guilty if not more so.

Gun control is not about disallowing people to own weapons it is about exercising some control over the types of weapons they own. I see nothing hypocritical about the Senator believing in gun control and believing in protecting his family against an intruder at the same time.

Besides every Congress man and woman has rules that apply to them and other rules that apply to everyone else.

Who published the quote you posted?
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Yooper
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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2013, 01:02:00 am »

^Got it in an email from a friend, but it's everywhere on the 'net.  And nowhere do I see the President mentioned, so you've lost me there.

Here's a random one:

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/anti-gun-senator-shoots-intruder/32049/

Interestingly, in my entire life in the USA I have never seen a rifle or assault rifle in the public domain.  I saw them everywhere in Europe. At shopping areas, public streets.  Even at the airport.  Just a factoid.  None when I landed in the US.  Just a hug.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 01:04:51 am by Yooper » Logged


\"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.\"  Thomas Jefferson
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