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Author Topic: The Duchy of Cornwall  (Read 26680 times)
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cate1949
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« Reply #160 on: December 04, 2013, 10:06:12 am »

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/03/prince-charles-secret-communications-ministers-leaseholder-duchy-of-cornwallhttp://




interesting article - seems that Charles and the Queen have a little known power to veto some laws. 
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Jane23
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« Reply #161 on: December 04, 2013, 10:36:20 am »

Some have a very hard time getting that The UK is a Monarchy of course The Queen and the next in line to The Throne have vetos ... and The Gurdian really?  laundry
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True Brit
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« Reply #162 on: December 04, 2013, 12:58:58 pm »

^ How many times? It's a constitutional monarchy and they are supposed to be figureheads. They are NOT supposed to veto anything, particularly Prince Charles who is only IN LINE to the throne and not in possession of it.
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« Reply #163 on: December 04, 2013, 01:13:09 pm »

Timed but wanted to add:


This could turn out to be a very interesting case as the Duchy always it maintains it is a private estate (despite a recent High Court ruling that it performs public duties). It seems this man is using the private argument so sit back and wait for the squeals of protest:

Quote
Davis argues in his written submission that the rule exempting the government from releasing correspondence with the heir to the throne should not apply in this instance because the prince, in his capacity as the Duke of Cornwall, oversees a private estate.

And as this leaseholder points out:

Quote
Jane Giddins, a leaseholder in Newton St Loe who is prevented from buying the freehold, said when she bought her home she "naively assumed something so patently unjust would be corrected" and said it was wrong that it has not been when the rest of the population of England and Wales has the right.

They should take these cases to the ECHR but PC won't risk that as he knows which way it will go...with costs.

Also look out for the people who own their homes but have been served notice that the Duchy suddenly claims to own the mineral rights beneath their properties - that has just kicked off. (BBC story but it's in the DM, Telegraph and yes the Guardian too shock horror)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-16962119

Here's the DM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510737/Villagers-brand-Prince-Charles-bully-sending-letters-invoking-ancient-right-homes.html
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:17:47 pm by True Brit » Logged

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cate1949
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« Reply #164 on: December 04, 2013, 09:10:57 pm »

a constitutional monarchy - operating under rule of law - so the laws apply to all.  A little known veto power of the monarch re:laws that affect  their ability to get money is not "laws applying to all".  There is no basis in common law for special classes that can be denied rights that everyone else in the country  has.  If everyone else has the right to buy their leaseholds - then why deny that right to those in the Duchy?  What rational basis is there to do that other than " I will support their right to trod all over everyone else so they can rip a couple more pounds from the common folk?"

People believe the monarchy is justified in part because the Queen and by extension her family (like the next in line) represent everyone - not just the banker class - but if the RF are increasingly seen as being just like the banker class - then the peasants will get unhappy.  PC had best be a bit more circumspect - for the sake of a million or two more - he could lose it all.
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« Reply #165 on: December 04, 2013, 10:14:27 pm »

Some have a very hard time getting that The UK is a Monarchy of course The Queen and the next in line to The Throne have vetos ... and The Gurdian really?  laundry

Silly me, and here I was thinking that the UK was a democracy.  Just goes to show that constitutional monarchy is inherently undemocratic.
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« Reply #166 on: December 04, 2013, 10:31:04 pm »

There is nothing democratic about it.
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Alexandrine
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« Reply #167 on: December 04, 2013, 10:41:36 pm »

Quote
They should take these cases to the ECHR but PC won't risk that as he knows which way it will go...with costs.

PC may not be interested but what about the other party? Or do you think Charles will try to reach an agreement before anything goes to the ECHR?

Because I don't see the Guardian in the press case not trying to reach the ECHR.
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« Reply #168 on: December 04, 2013, 11:02:00 pm »

 hello Alexandrine - from what I've read about this the householders are held back by the potential legal costs of all this.

However, I would hazard a guess that Republic may well get involved or at the very least one of their sympathetic barristers or even the Guardian but they have been financing other important legal and FOI issues re the Duchies. Also Liberty - the Human Rights organisation- is also known to give legal support so there are a few options.

Best to keep an eye on these stories and see how they develop.

Let's also not forget that the Kernow movement has always maintained that English law has no standing whatsoever in what was the ancient kingdom of Cornwall (Kernow) and it is certainly true that if you wish to pursue a legal case in Cornwall you have to use a Cornish based lawyer. That in itself tells us something is very odd about its status.

In short, the argument is that Kernow was not taken into GB during the Act of Union days (I think it was then must check) and has remained an anomaly ever since. This appears to be why PC refuses to acknowledge Kernow as it really means he is King of Cornwall not a duke and, as such, would have to pay for all of the ancient kingdom's costs of governance, policing, armed forces etc etc. and it would bankrupt him. He would also have to settle old tin mining claims against him which are running into millions but which the Duchy refuses to acknowledge.

It really is about time both Duchies were integrated with the Crown Estates as handing over tens of millions to PC (and HM) each year to spend as they wish is lavish and unsustainable in the 21st century. It may change post HM but I wouldn't get excited.
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« Reply #169 on: December 04, 2013, 11:10:13 pm »

TB  Kiss

Gosh Cornwall even has their own law? But I thought the Duchy is not exactly in Cornwall so it affects more areas than Cornwall which creates more confusion to this.

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« Reply #170 on: December 04, 2013, 11:34:09 pm »

^ It's very complicated and hidden under the fog of time but originally the Duchy was just Cornwall and it was grabbed by the monarchy to provide an income for the eldest son of the monarch as it was so rich in mineral resources, notably tin. The reason the Romans wanted retain was mainly for its mineral resources - it was like an ancient middle eastern oil bonanza and made the owners of these rights rich beyond comprehension.

Over the years the Duchy has acquired lands across the UK which has muddled things even further. Cromwell actually abolished it during the time of the Commonwealth.

Incidentally the claim by the PoW that he shouldn't pay tax on the Duchy income only extends as far back as 1913 when the then PoW (latterly Duke of Windsor/Edward VIII) decided he didn't want to pay any despite previous PoWs having paid up. People also probably aren't aware that he bought Mrs Simpson's fabulous pre marriage jewels using Duchy funds and when she fled to the South of France in 1936 following the abdication he provided her with security guards as she was carrying £250,000 from the Duchy for spending money. Lord knows the value of that £250,000 today but must be millions.

Have a read of the following link from political party Merbyon Kernow.

Quote
This follows the announcement that the Information Commissioner has ruled that the Cabinet Office must release the guidelines on how the consent of “The Crown” and “The Duchy of Cornwall” need to be obtained before certain bills can be passed into law.

The Information Commissioner has also ruled that the Cabinet Office must detail which criteria ministers apply before asking the royals to amend draft laws, which has been described by constitutional lawyers as “a royal nuclear deterrent.”

Speaking on behalf of Mebyon Kernow, Cllr Loveday Jenkin said:
“For many years, there has been a cloak of secrecy surrounding the position and role of the Duchy of Cornwall. The powers-that-be have also refused to debate the constitutional significance of the Duchy and how this relates to Cornwall’s past and future. 

“This recent ruling from the Information Commissioner may shed some much-needed light on the Duchy, but we need to go further.

“We need a full Public Inquiry into the Duchy of Cornwall and Cornwall's ambiguous constitutional relationship with the Crown, as well as the contradictions between Cornwall’s constitutional status and current administrative arrangements.”

https://www.mebyonkernow.org/news/article.php?id=60

This second
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india
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« Reply #171 on: December 05, 2013, 01:22:39 am »

Thank you True Brit. That was quite interesting.
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Jane23
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« Reply #172 on: December 05, 2013, 11:51:50 am »

^ How many times? It's a constitutional monarchy and they are supposed to be figureheads. They are NOT supposed to veto anything, particularly Prince Charles who is only IN LINE to the throne and not in possession of it.
Silly me I thought Liz was The Head of State !!!
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True Brit
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« Reply #173 on: December 05, 2013, 12:19:51 pm »

^ Do get a grip please. She is titular HoS but ONLY as a figurehead and is not supposed to engage in any activity which will compromise political neutrality. She isn't HoS as an absolute monarch or as a president would be.
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« Reply #174 on: January 12, 2014, 10:11:34 pm »

Eye opening link from Cornwall Community News.

http://www.cornwallcommunitynews.co.uk/2011/06/30/ask-the-duchy/
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« Reply #175 on: January 12, 2014, 11:07:06 pm »

^"A massive chunk of it probably also went on the Royal Wedding – but the Royals refuse to say what that cost.
The Prince’s private secretary Sir Michael Peat told reporters: “I don’t think generally people say how much weddings cost do they?”
Citing nobless oblige, the aristocrat went on to say “what really counted” was that William and Kate’s day had been “happy”.

This is some Enron logic right there.  ick I'd be "happy" too if someone handed me a thirty four million wedding easter-sly
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RoyalWatcher
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« Reply #176 on: January 12, 2014, 11:08:17 pm »

I'd be more thrilled with the cash.....
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cate1949
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« Reply #177 on: January 12, 2014, 11:47:06 pm »

well there is also the gold recently found.....

what is interesting is the seperatist movement in Cornwall.  I am too lazy to look the exact details up but apparently there are documents going back to medieval times which assert the Duchy of Cornwall - the county that is - as seperate from the KIngdom of England - it is on this basis that seperatists are claiming Cornwall is not part of England nor by extension the UK - would be something if they were to actually succeed and make Cornwall a seperate state - there goes a big chunk of the cash cow.

The Duke of Windsor is hardly one to choose as a role model - LOL - pay the taxes Charles!
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« Reply #178 on: February 01, 2014, 08:56:41 pm »

^ITA, all that money going to waste after the divorce.  Tragic, really tragic.
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« Reply #179 on: June 17, 2015, 02:55:52 am »

Interesting.
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