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Author Topic: Diana's secret tapes  (Read 11365 times)
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Mooster
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2012, 11:53:04 pm »

This is not defending Charles in anyway, but I do think Diana would have found it difficult being married to anyone.  I think she was traumatised by her parents marriage and the feelings of rejection and neediness that it ignited in her.  I think Diana, even if she had not married Charles, would have needed marriage counselling and a husband who truly loved her and would never leave her no matter what, and stood by her while she was working through her problems.  There are a lot of good men like that out there, unfortunately for Diana, her fate was sealed at the tender age of 19 and she never had the chance to meet someone who would be good for her and good to her.  IMO, Diana was a very troubled and complex character and deserved much more care and attention that the RF ever gave her. 
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 01:25:02 am »

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But for the cheating, Diana cheated too, it doesn't matter it was after she learned about Camilla, Diana did cheat as well, and two wrong don't make one right. And her cheating damaged one of her sons very much so (Harry), as there will always be rumors that Charles isn't his father. As much as he knows Charles is, it must be horrible for you to have to deal with the whole world insinuating that to you.
I see big difference in a marriage where isnt allowed a divorce a man start cheat his wife at least since 2nd year (1983)... well Camilla start talking with Stuart Higgins since Jan/1982 according to Charles he call her for talk about the pregnancy of William and day the pregnancy of William was announced he was hunting with her ... but Diana said they start in 1983.

Diana started the affair in late 1986, AFTER FIVE YEARS MARRIED with her youngest son being 2-years-old.

You seems me, a Charles fan , none problem with it but why not assume it ... Charles ALLOWED this rumor on paternity of Harry run in press ... when Camilla is case he contracted Mark Bolland and spent a fortune on him for rehabilitate the Camilla image, when is Charles is himself the case,ie. rumours of him be homossexual: he had the unprecedented action send his spokesman deny the rumours, what only worsened the situation.

And Charles who encouraged the Harry image as bad/rebel prince, was Charles who leaked the drug story of Harry.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445248/Royal-spin-doctor-comes-clean-about-Prince-Harry-expose.html

Look what darling friend & supporter of Charles wrote about the youngest son of her idol Prince Charles
Article By Ingrid Seward:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-94774/A-young-man-desperate-need-firm-guidance.html

PS.After is Diana who damaged Harry... double standard is little for certain things I read by Charles fans   thumbsdown

I do like Prince Charles a lot... yes... but I do not thing he is a saint.... WAAAAAAAYYYYYY from that.

I don't think he'd start such a rumor as it could also trash his reputation.

And no, I could list a lot of things Charles has done wrong to his children but I also can say that Diana wasn't the greatest mother either.

And going back to the topic, Diana learned about Camilla BEFORE the wedding, and she asked her sister for advise and she told her sister that she'd call the wedding off and her sister said: Oh Diana, it's too late to call the wedding off, you have your face stamped on british flags.

I'm sorry, that was not a good reason not to call the wedding off. Plus, would you believe in a note he sent you the night before the wedding like that? If you catch you husband to be saying that he'll always love that woman, will you believe that in within a few days he felt in love with you at a point he'll never love that other girl???

Nooooo!
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2012, 01:30:52 am »

Mooster,Everybody needs care and love not just Diana. Diana was really still immature and had not realized her potential. She was seen as "good stock" and "Fertile" by Charles and suitable to bear his royal children. Prince Philip even said she'd "breed tallness into the royal family." That was the problem. THey saw her as a "concept" rather than a person. Charles saw marriage as a philosophical concept not in any sort of reality. He thought that Diana could be molded to suit HIS needs.  I don't think Diana was "troubled" I think she was used by her family for advancement. I think she felt very betrayed by her husband and humiliated at being rejected. Ordinarily a woman could divorce and walk away--Diana could not just leave when she found out about Charles and his issues--the boys did belong to the Crown and technically the Queen could determine their upbringing. Why do you only think Diana needed marriage counseling. Charles to me had a very bizarre idea of marriage--marriage is for two people and no matter what walk of life he is in he is not "above" morality;. He had no business sleeping with married women. I think that shows Charles a very peculiar, troubled man who thought himself so great he could do whatever he wanted. I think he needed counseling and badly before he could even THINK about marriage.

HarryWales actually Diana's sisters said your face is on the tea towels too late to back out now. Diana's face was not on a flag.

Also Diana would have had to be a huge cynic at a young age to think Charles would be a liar to her. He asked her to marry him and paid her the ultimate compliment, married her and swore to honor her in a Church of England ceremony. Do you think brides should go into a marriage thinking the man will lie to her? Diana as not a sorceress and had NO notions of what would happen to her in that marriage. She thought Camilla was history and thought "well that's over" at the time of the wedding. I think Charles DID sweet talk her. He had a lot at stake, he wanted heirs and he could not have them with Camilla. Camilla also helped Charles select his virgin bride and approved of Diana. I think that decided Charles on the marriage. Diana at the time did not trust Camilla but apparently thought Charles would do right by her. I can't believe people blame Diana for accepting a proposal than Charles proposing. Why not blame CHarles for the fiasco--he was 32 to Diana's 20 and knew the score--Diana did not think the man would hurt her and apparently trusted him back then.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 01:37:05 am by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2012, 01:38:05 am »

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HarryWales actually Diana's sisters said your face is on the tea towels too late to back out now. Diana's face was not on a flag.

Tea towels or british little flags... it doesn't matter where her face was stamped on, that is still not a good reason not to call the wedding off.

And no, I think Charles has his fault in this too, but Diana wanted this honestly.
She did know about Camilla, she said she knew about her... and even though she knew about them she still married Charles. She fooled herself more than Charles ever did... because, the worst blind is the one who DOES NOT want to see.
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2012, 01:46:13 am »

Back then Diana thought the sun rose and set on Charles. At the beginning there were looks of affection between them and Stephen Barry who was cynical about the marriage (and worked for Charles) believed them to be in love. She did not trust Camilla. She persuaded Charles to take her off the wedding breakfast list. I believe she felt Charles would be true to her and back then trusted him. She was not a seer and could not see the turmoil in the marriage. I think she truly believed Charles would stop seeing or contacting Camilla. She didn't realize how weak and untrustworthy her husband would become. Again, she was not a sorceress. I am having trouble with this because I think Charles whom you "like a lot" is getting a free pass from you. Like saying Diana "asked for it." The man courted her, proposed and swore to uphold marriage vows to her. She thought the other woman would be history and Charles was an honorable man. This actually does make Charles look bad blaming Diana for "knowing"--it as good as says that Charles was not to be trusted. Diana if she truly knew all would not have gone into the marriage. No way could she have realzed the hold Camilla had on CHarles and how morally bankrupt Charles actually was.

Diana's family did not tell her she should not go into the marriage. Quite the contrary. Her father was bursting with pride at she and Charles marrying. One of her sisters said that D and C were "over the moon." Charles Spencer said Diana was in love. Diana's grandmother who knew about Camilla cynically plotted to match Diana with Charles and had the Queen Mother's support. People around her were telling her how wonderful Charles was. Diana was overwhelmed that this older man apparently was in love with her. She thought that she "won" over Camilla, because Charles chose her to be his wife and have his children.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 01:52:11 am by sandy » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 01:48:30 am »

sandy said:  'he was 32 to Diana's 20'   sob  this is the saddest thing to me, I have a 19 year old daughter, and to imagine a 32 yr old man manipulating her into being used, abused and discarded breaks my heart.  Diana was just a youngster - they say James Hewitt was a cad...WTF does that make Charles  Angry
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 01:49:03 am »

Charles & Camilla came up with a plan to use a very young naive girl as a brood mare and then executed their plan. Everything after that was a reaction to what they did.

Diana didn't turn out to be the Mouse they thought she was. Diana learned from their deviousness and then bested them.

Charles only received a part of what he deserved because a man should never use a girl as a brood mare and no female including Camilla should condone such behavior.
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012, 01:52:44 am »

Charles is not getting a free pass from me but I honestly think that Diana should have known better.

I think honestly that she was infatuated with everything that was going on and not only she was madly in love with him, but I think she was infatuated with the fact that the future King wanted to marry her.

I also think her family did not give her the help and support she needed because in my opinion they really wanted her to marry into the BRF and be Queen and relate the Spencer name to the monarchy.
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 02:00:52 am »

A 19 year old is not really that familiar with all the different ways men will use them given the opportunity.

I am sure Diana was flattered at the proposal and I am also sure that Charles sped things along so he could get his heir and spare before she figured out what type of man he is.

Diana did makes some mistakes and a 19 year old is going to do that especially when someone older is encouraging them. Charles intended on using her and he is the one that was old enough to know better.
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 02:01:22 am »

Diana was not a "nothing." She was from an old aristo family and sought after by Charles for her beauty, her youth and fertility. She also had "no past." Charles felt the need for heirs and Camilla helped pick Diana out for him because she felt she was a "mouse" and was so naive she could be molded to suit their own needs. It was all a very cynical arrangement. Had Diana been 3 or 4 years older and out in the world then I think she would have known better. She was young and had very little experience dating and being out in the world. If she had a steady BF she would have been perhaps more attuned to situations. The thing was Charles wanted somebody with "no experience" like his Uncle prescribed in a letter to him. Had he found someone with more experience she would have been smart enough to either be able to oust Camilla from CHarles life or walk away from Charles. Diana thought well he chose me to be his wife and mother of his children and at such a young age was more trusting than she should have been. Her only "guilt" was being naive. I think Charles was very cynical in the way he went into the marriage. Unfortunately Diana trusted him too much for her own good.
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« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2012, 02:12:52 am »

Ok, I heard that Diana's grandmother (?) worked as company lady for The Queen mother and independent that... they were aristocrat yeah, but her father seemed like he wanted this marriage more than anything because being an aristocrat is not the same as having your daughter as future queen.
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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2012, 10:59:22 am »

Diana's grandmother (on her mother's side) was Ruth, Lady Fermoy, a lady in waiting to the QM.  Lady Fermoy took the side of Lord Spencer when he was divorcing Diana's mother Frances.  That's right, Lady Fermoy threw her own daughter under the bus, Frances was branded a scarlet women for running off with Peter Shand-Kydd, and Lord Spencer won full custody.  Diana was 6 years old.

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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2012, 11:05:50 am »

Lady Fermoy was a disgraceful old snob - Tina Brown commented in the Diana Chronicles that had Frances run off with a Duke that would have been alright but because she ran off with Peter Shand Kydd it was beyond the pale.

It is pretty clear that Johnnie Spencer was unable to raise the children properly they were left to do what they wanted and they lacked emotional support of their mother gives.

The same book tells how the RF were shocked that Diana had never experienced hosting dinner parties with impressive, well connected guests. They assumed as, that was what all arists usually did she would have been very used to such things.

I just find the whole business desperately tragic.

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« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2012, 11:09:39 am »

Diana was in a very difficult situation during the engagement, that was a state issue not a normal wedding (was hard for her call-off that big event alone without support). She was only 19-years-old and had spent most of her life in boarding schools, was a naive and inexperienced girl who never had boyfriends. What more exit in world is older men ledding 19-years-old girls on. And Diana said to Peter Settelen on courtship:
It's like being sucked in... just people pushing and then people pulling, all in the same direction.

Diana, indeed, was very let down for her family. I blame them too but Charles, too, had none right in played with the life of a girl. I think Diana follow with the wedding out desespair than love.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:15:58 am by dianab » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2012, 11:27:04 am »

^ diananab  thumbsup - the thing about Diana was, that even among aristo girls she was like a girl from the 1950s not the 1970s - it was quite extraordinary. For a few generations both working and middle class girls had been to university/college and held down careers and so too did many aristos. Tina Brown said she felt her gifts were such that she would have made a great career in social work of some kind but it would never have occurred to anyone that she ought to.

Even Frances who was, by all accounts, a talented all rounder academically, sporting and musically, and had run away from all of this failed to encourage her daughters into doing something other than "keeping myself tidy" as Diana said for marriage.

They were all victims of their upbringing.

As for Charles he knows no better because he has spent his life surrounded by utter privilege, sycophancy and fawning yes men. He was never going to come out of such an experience undamaged. I often laugh at these attempts to say these people are "normal" - only on Mars.

I also do wonder just how Kate Middleton is really coping in all this. They may say it's changed but it's doubtful it really is. Her parents should have stopped her getting embroiled in this but they too will turn out to have failed their daughter IMO
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:33:57 am by True Brit » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2012, 02:05:48 pm »

Charles had his pals label Diana "mad" because she would  not kiss his feet and make nice with the mistress. Charles idea of a heavenly arrangement IMO was a husband "sharing" his wife with him and all were "civilized." I think he thought Diana would readily be into sharing him with Camilla. Charles was so hung up on his self importance he could not see how other people might not think his idea of bliss was not their cup of tea.
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2012, 02:28:31 pm »

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I also do wonder just how Kate Middleton is really coping in all this. They may say it's changed but it's doubtful it really is. Her parents should have stopped her getting embroiled in this but they too will turn out to have failed their daughter IMO
imo
Her slimness/thinness talks for itself ....
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2012, 02:30:22 pm »

Diana was in a very difficult situation during the engagement, that was a state issue not a normal wedding (was hard for her call-off that big event alone without support). She was only 19-years-old and had spent most of her life in boarding schools, was a naive and inexperienced girl who never had boyfriends. What more exit in world is older men ledding 19-years-old girls on. And Diana said to Peter Settelen on courtship:
It's like being sucked in... just people pushing and then people pulling, all in the same direction.

Diana, indeed, was very let down for her family. I blame them too but Charles, too, had none right in played with the life of a girl. I think Diana follow with the wedding out desespair than love.

Exactly, Diana had grit but even she would have found calling off the wedding an impossible task.  Diana's family give the impression of being a very aloof, cold and selfish bunch of people, not one of them appeared to have the warmth that she had.
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« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2012, 02:44:31 pm »

Also, when Diana voiced her fears about Camilla during the engagement she was told that she was over-reacting and there was nothing to worry about. When the whole world is sweeping you along to your wedding day, as a young woman I imagine she hoped all would be well and that Charles did love her. I think she said as much on the tapes.

How awful to feel like you have married the man of your dreams only to find his dreams are focused elsewhere.
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2012, 02:50:39 pm »

I think she could have called it off had she been older or even if the relationship had run a bit longer before the engagement. You are only naive for so long and she learned quickly and - with the support of a "proper" family - she would have had the backup - after all one thing the Spencer's were definitely not was in awe of the Windsors.

Yes dianab the thinness of KM does speak volumes. I have recently been re-reading my collection of RF and Diana stories and history is just repeating itself. One of Mark Bolland's comments is about what he called "an old lag" (experienced aide) who said the RF just use people up and spit 'em out when they've outlived their usefulness and  bring in another.

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How awful to feel like you have married the man of your dreams only to find his dreams are focused elsewhere.


It's beyond a nightmare.
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