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Author Topic: The Transition to Charles' Reign  (Read 50118 times)
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cate1949
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« Reply #580 on: October 22, 2014, 12:53:26 am »

^Freya those ceremonies have historic precedent going back many years - even centuries  the investiture of a PoW really is not historically a tradition and it could ignite protest from the Welsh

I would think they'll do something but not as elaborate as was done for Charles

KF - since Charles funds all the work of the two Princes and his D in L he could get them "in line" anytime he wants to - he need not wait til he becomes King.

I think it may be Andy who is gotten in line.
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Freya
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« Reply #581 on: October 22, 2014, 01:02:44 am »

^
Quote
Freya those ceremonies have historic precedent going back many years - even centuries  the investiture of a PoW really is not historically a tradition and it could ignite protest from the Welsh

It goes back to Edward 1.
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Rosella
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« Reply #582 on: October 22, 2014, 01:30:43 am »

Yes the title the Prince of Wales is indeed a very ancient one, but the first investiture (of modern times anyway) was of the future King Edward VIII when he was sixteen. It was a bread and circuses idea of Lloyd George's, who was Welsh himself.
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Freya
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« Reply #583 on: October 22, 2014, 02:00:02 am »

^
Edward 1 invested his son as the first Prince of Wales in Lincoln. The tradition dates back to 1301.
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Rosella
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« Reply #584 on: October 22, 2014, 02:48:48 am »

Yes, not saying that the title of Prince of Wales is not an ancient one. It obviously is. However many Princes of Wales through history  were given the title as babies, not invested in elaborate ceremonies like those of Charles and the future Duke of Windsor. William may or may not be invested but, barring disaster, he will almost certainly be created Prince of Wales when Charles comes to the throne.
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sandy
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« Reply #585 on: October 22, 2014, 02:49:53 am »

I think Charles will plan an investiture. He wants to showcase the theoretical "scaled down" monarchy.
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cate1949
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« Reply #586 on: October 22, 2014, 03:06:13 am »

obviously there will be some kind of thing-a-ma-jing event but not I bet on the scale of Charlie's.  First of all his investiture occurred in a castle built by Edward I to subdue the Welsh - sort of not a very politically correct place to do it in now with all the independence talk in Wales.  Second - it cost a lot and that also would not be so judicious nowadays - recall the special leather chairs made just for the event?

BTW - recall how the Queen was dressed that day?  One of her most stunning day outfits - that gorgeous swan hat?  Very fashion forward HM was then.
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meememe
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« Reply #587 on: October 22, 2014, 07:19:09 am »

William and Harry, however, have a source of funding that hasn't been the case for earlier princes - the millions they inherited from Diana.

As Charles is supporting them from the Duchy of Cornwall that money will continue to grow unless there is proof that they have ever spent it.

William is learning about running the Duchy of Cornwall the best way possible - he has been attending members with Charles of the Duchy for a number of years now - mentioned in the CC. We don't see him going to these meetings - but we don't see anyone going to meetings but we do know when the meetings occur and who attends them at least twice a year as they are mentioned in the CC.

The Queen and Charles have been training William to be a King and they are the best people to do so. He may not really want the job but he has accepted it and will be fine when the time comes.

As for his future titles:

1. The instant the Queen dies William becomes HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge as well as Duke of Rothesay in Scotland along with a slew of other titles that will be his automatically as the heir apparent to the throne who will also be the eldest son of the new King (should Charles predecease his mother which I certainly hope doesn't happen then William won't be Duke of Cornwall as he won't be the eldest son of the monarch, in which case I would expect The Queen to create him Prince of Wales sooner rather than later).

2. Sometime after becoming King, Charles may create William as Prince of Wales.

3. An investiture may happen but given Welsh sensibilities it may not happen either although William chose to live in Wales and part of the reason was to create some connection to Wales for when he was Prince of Wales so I expect him to be created Prince of Wales AND Earl of Chester - the subsidiary title that goes with the Wales titles and one Charles has and was referred to as such when he and Camilla visited Chester earlier this year.

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Freya
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« Reply #588 on: October 22, 2014, 10:19:19 am »

Quote
An investiture may happen but given Welsh sensibilities it may not happen either although William chose to live in Wales and part of the reason was to create some connection to Wales for when he was Prince of Wales so I expect him to be created Prince of Wales AND Earl of Chester - the subsidiary title that goes with the Wales titles and one Charles has and was referred to as such when he and Camilla visited Chester earlier this year.

When Scotland voted recently for independence they were still planning to keep the Queen as Head of State so I don't think that it would offend the Welsh for an investiture to take place. The Royal Family likes to raise their profile whenever there is a possibility of a country becoming independent.

An investiture would also attract a lot of tourism which would help the local economy so I could not see the people of  Caernarfon objecting. 
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meememe
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« Reply #589 on: October 22, 2014, 09:12:23 pm »

There were objections to Charles' investiture by Welsh nationalists - not a lot but some.

Since then Wales has its own Assembly which may or may not agree with the idea of investing an English prince with the title Prince of Wales. Those changing sensibilities do have to be considered. The BRF have to take account of the feelings of the population and so if the Welsh people are not keen on the idea then there will be no investiture - if they are happy for it to happen then it will.
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sandy
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« Reply #590 on: October 23, 2014, 01:39:16 am »

William and Harry, however, have a source of funding that hasn't been the case for earlier princes - the millions they inherited from Diana.

As Charles is supporting them from the Duchy of Cornwall that money will continue to grow unless there is proof that they have ever spent it.

William is learning about running the Duchy of Cornwall the best way possible - he has been attending members with Charles of the Duchy for a number of years now - mentioned in the CC. We don't see him going to these meetings - but we don't see anyone going to meetings but we do know when the meetings occur and who attends them at least twice a year as they are mentioned in the CC.

The Queen and Charles have been training William to be a King and they are the best people to do so. He may not really want the job but he has accepted it and will be fine when the time comes.

As for his future titles:

1. The instant the Queen dies William becomes HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge as well as Duke of Rothesay in Scotland along with a slew of other titles that will be his automatically as the heir apparent to the throne who will also be the eldest son of the new King (should Charles predecease his mother which I certainly hope doesn't happen then William won't be Duke of Cornwall as he won't be the eldest son of the monarch, in which case I would expect The Queen to create him Prince of Wales sooner rather than later).

2. Sometime after becoming King, Charles may create William as Prince of Wales.

3. An investiture may happen but given Welsh sensibilities it may not happen either although William chose to live in Wales and part of the reason was to create some connection to Wales for when he was Prince of Wales so I expect him to be created Prince of Wales AND Earl of Chester - the subsidiary title that goes with the Wales titles and one Charles has and was referred to as such when he and Camilla visited Chester earlier this year.



With his gap year and ambitions to be a copter pilot I doubt William spent much time at any Duchy meetings.

It is not known how "fine" william will be with stepping up to full time duties. For now he appears to be avoiding it.
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meememe
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« Reply #591 on: October 23, 2014, 08:20:38 am »

There are only two Duchy meetings a year and William has attended three in the last couple of years, including the last two of them. How long each meeting goes for we aren't told but there is no reason to assume that William leaves the meetings early.

What is clear is that Charles is taking his son and heir to the meetings of the Duchy to introduce him to the running of the estate so that when William does become Duke of Cornwall the instant The Queen leaves us he will be ready to take over.
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sandy
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« Reply #592 on: October 23, 2014, 03:21:34 pm »

Attending meetings and spending time working and learning are two different things. He should be paying more attention to the Duchy work than going copter flying to play Normal.

I don't share your optimism about William being ready based on his sitting in on meetings. It takes a lot more than that.
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india
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« Reply #593 on: October 23, 2014, 08:59:21 pm »

He is a loser and doesn't cut the mustard.
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