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Author Topic: The Transition to Charles' Reign  (Read 50079 times)
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Spice
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 11:27:18 pm »

The current popularity of the monarchy is because of the Queen. 

There are no guarantees that she will live to 100 like her mother, don't forget she has 50% of her genes from her father, who had very poor health.  None of his siblings lived beyond their seventies (and advances in medical science don't necessarily change things that quickly). Yes she appears to have had excellent health all her life but you cannot fight genetics.

So, if she has 5 years left, then Charles' reign will start with him having about the same popularity he has now, which is not much.  William's popularity I don't think will be the same in 5 years - his bubble will probably burst before then.  If the Queen does live to 100, then the Charles and William situation will be even worse than it is now.

Charles' reputation will decline further once he is King.  "Unpopular" is not a strong enough word to describe Camilla.  He made a politician's promise that she will not be called Queen Consort, then a few years later said "we shall see".  This is just the start of what he will be like as King.

Obviously the monarchy has ample support at the moment, that's not rocket science.  But longer term planning requires deeper analysis, an ability to see past trends and estimate future dynamics.  We have seen in the last fortnight that Charles hasn't got to grips with the internet or social media yet.  He thinks he can ignore the internet, bully the print media and kick people off the tour for asking questions.  This kind of ineptitude will be his undoing.
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2012, 02:12:52 am »

CHarles can call himself Emperor of the Universe not to mention "shadow king." BUt the Queen is not reported to have dementia or any illness that would keep her from doing her duties as Queen. Charles can put this in the papers but it is meaningless Unless there is an official announcement. Also Charles is not young anymore and at 63 looks old for his age. Nobody knows how long he will be around or the Queen will be around. In any event at his age he does not have the same stamina and energy he had 30 somethng years ago, he too has diminished capacity. So if story had any credence wouldn't William be told he must leave SAR now to help his father the Shadow King (sounds like a cheesy title in a Sci Fi movie) take on the Queen's duties. Charles is supposed to do HIS and the Queen's duties and he has a  wife with not much of a work ethic? Give me a break. William would then have to be the Shadow Prnce of Wales to take up Dad's duties and Kate would have to be a "shadow" to help out full time. ANd then Harry the Shadow to the Shadow, and where would Charles utopian dream of a scaled down monarchy be if he thinks he can do it all by himself. I think Charles is a narcissist but this plan is totally impractical. I think Charles though wheedles and cajoles his mother via sulks and guilt trips to get his way. But that is being an overaged  spoiled brat not a Shadow King.
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2012, 09:01:18 am »

^ He ain't calling himself anything the media is  sly.
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sandy
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2012, 04:10:29 pm »

Unless Charles gives his tacit consent, I doubt the media would be so free with these stories. Charles has PR people. This has Charles' fingerprints over it. If he didn't approve this would not have been mentioned at all--even some years ago when these blurbs started.
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2012, 09:03:21 pm »

^ Well said, Sandy.  PC's PR team are superstars in their industry, as good as they come, and highly paid out of the Duchy of Cornwall, which should be in public hands, I might add.

I think it's fair to assume that most of what we read in the mainstream British press that looks like it could have come from his PR team, probably did.
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 09:10:51 pm »

Of course if the Duchy was in public hands then the taxpayers would have to pay him an appropriate salary and the salaries of his staff as befits the heir to the throne of not expect him or any other member of the family to do any work for the nation - as they would have to earn a living full-time - no time for overseas tours, or even visits within the nation.

The income from the Duchy is to allow the heir to the throne to be independent of the monarch and the government and thus be able to have the time to represent the people.
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 09:23:31 pm »

^ PC could still "represent the people" (whatever that means) with an income source that is arranged differently.

It's medieval hangover that has no relevance in 2012.
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 10:52:31 pm »

^True MMM but I doubt he would get the generous package he gets now - £18.3 million from the Duchy and £2.194 from the public purse. He also gets the equivalent of £40 million a year public subsidy for the Duchy of Cornwall by not paying capital gains or Cororation tax on the Duchy's business.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/29/prince-charles-public-funding-up

^^ Spice I absolutely agree. The Duchy should be disbanded and taken into the Crown Estates and Treasury and a proper Government department should be set up to fund the monarchy (if it is to continue) which is transparent and fully accountable.

Just a reminder that MPs are not allowed to criticise the Queen or any member of her family in the Houses of Parliament - it's undemocratic and unsustainable.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 10:56:13 pm by True Brit » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2012, 11:02:38 pm »

Timed out that's £2.194 million from the public purse. Then there's the 124 people he has on his payroll costing £6million a year - a cost he deducts from the revenue of the Duchy.

I will dissect the Public Accounts Committee minutes when they met representatives of both Duchies - it makes for fascinating reading. Just need some time to do it but have been saying I will for a while so will make time.

This is from 2010 but it gives a breakdwon of his personal staff including 10 Spin Doctors. No wonder we read so much relentless PR puff pieces planted across the MSM.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 11:04:41 pm by True Brit » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2012, 11:11:35 pm »

Truebrit have you read the material available at Republic?  They've done a lot of the analytical work for us already.
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2012, 11:22:06 pm »

 hello Spice yes I have seen it but there is some terrific detail in the Parliamentary stuff and I intend sharing it - I'll try and sort ASAP.
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2012, 11:35:59 pm »

Thank you in advance, Truebrit.   flower
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« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2012, 12:28:11 am »

^ PC could still "represent the people" (whatever that means) with an income source that is arranged differently.

It's medieval hangover that has no relevance in 2012.


No matter how it is arranged some people will complain.

In addition he wouldn't then be independent but tied to the government of the day.

'represent the people' - is what he does whenever he does anything official for Britain and not for his charities.

I notice you don't complain about all the other medieval estates that provide independent incomes for other peers or even other people - I suppose you are opposed to all inherited wealth - as that what it sounds like .
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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2012, 12:39:13 am »

What is the value in him being independent of the lawfully elected government?
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2012, 12:52:28 am »

Absolutely not opposed to inherited wealth. I grew up within a shadow of the Chatsworth Estate and know all the hard work and dedication put in by Debo the (now dowager) Duchess of Devonshire and the late Duke - work that is being carried on by their son "Stoker" and his wife Amanda. They may well have applied for some public fund for historic houses along the way but I don't have an issue with that as Chatsworth is an absolute masterpiece and pays its own way.

The Cavendishes have given so much and are an essential part of Derbyshire life - the Duke was at my old village's history society a little while ago giving a talk and I have lost count of the time Debo attended my children's school to open the fete or judge some competition or other.

None of that was achieved with public money but by selling off some of their assets and many an old master that was in the house. In the 1960s/70s the late Duke was often popping down to the London  auction rooms to sell off some treasure or other to fund some aspect of the work on the house. There are many examples of such great estates working in this way.

I object to the vast sums of public money that are being handed over that is covered in a fog of unaccountability and financial jiggery pokery. Even Balmoral, Osbourne House and Sandringham have been funded from the privy purse in the past as the 1850 Hansard reveals. It's also a matter of tax breaks (neither PC or Hm paid any income tax until 1992 onwards) and they pay no corporation/capital gains/inheritance tax.

The QM was always being bailed out by the taxpayer as she was allegedly broke only for us to find years down the line that she had salted vast amounts away into trust funds for her grandchildren. We're being had on.

MMM not sure what you mean by this:

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In addition he wouldn't then be independent but tied to the government of the day.

They are always tied to the Govt of the day - this is a constitutional role not a political role. Charles is in waiting to be the symbolic head of state not the PM. Why does he need to be independent in waiting - it's a replica of what his mother is doing.
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« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2012, 10:02:53 am »

What is wrong with him? He has his new wife, he has more than enough, he has his Trust and he's been Prince of Wales since he was a kid. One would think that is enough, but now even his grasping ambition is to apparently knock his mother off of her Throne and end up taking it over with his tart in tow. As for the aristocracy, they actually spend time with the people and make it a point to be part of the community while Charles apparently does not (as far as I know).

As for inherited wealth, you would be amazed if you came to the US and saw all the amazing work that heirs/heiresses do for the US culture.

Quote
The QM was always being bailed out by the taxpayer as she was allegedly broke only for us to find years down the line that she had salted vast amounts away into trust funds for her grandchildren. We're being had on.

How disgusting; stuff like that in the US can get you arrested. The monarchy is no different than a greedy mistress.
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2012, 10:42:59 am »

Hi KF - interestingly C&C are very friendly with the D&D at Chatsworth and I suspect he would really love to be able to run his affiars like they do - but of course he can't because he's a public servant and funded by the public (one way or another).

I know he said he would vacate BP when he is King and I suspect he would then make it pay for itself and run it along the lines of Chatsworth which would be a good thing as it needs serious work and I would say this would be a good use of public money.

However in the Public Accounts Committee report the MPs accused him of running the Duchy as a private fiefdom.

I guess he's in a very difficult and frustrating position approaching old age and thinking he may never be King (not down to a republic or anything) but that his mother could outlive him. For someone like Charles that must be an extremely difficult pill to swallow.

Perhaps he's rubbing soap on the stairs at Balmoral as we speak?  Shocked
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2012, 03:49:17 pm »

What is wrong with him? He has his new wife, he has more than enough, he has his Trust and he's been Prince of Wales since he was a kid. One would think that is enough, but now even his grasping ambition is to apparently knock his mother off of her Throne and end up taking it over with his tart in tow. As for the aristocracy, they actually spend time with the people and make it a point to be part of the community while Charles apparently does not (as far as I know).

As for inherited wealth, you would be amazed if you came to the US and saw all the amazing work that heirs/heiresses do for the US culture.

Quote
The QM was always being bailed out by the taxpayer as she was allegedly broke only for us to find years down the line that she had salted vast amounts away into trust funds for her grandchildren. We're being had on.

How disgusting; stuff like that in the US can get you arrested. The monarchy is no different than a greedy mistress.
Very well put! I think Charles is a malcontent. a whiner and is never satisfied with his lot.  I doubt Camilla "makes him happy" and once he got to marry her wants the throne. I think his great love is himself and his own amtitions. I think his complaining about his upbringing via Dimbleby was the tip of the iceberg. I think he tells his mother how he was "ill treated" as a child to try to get his way. It is shameful how he puts t hese shadoe king blurbs out.
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« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2012, 07:54:24 pm »

I re-watched yesterday his BBC doco he released in June for the Jubilee, the one with him watching home movies at Balmoral.  He just whines his way through it, every time he sees something from his childhood he tells us what was wrong with it.  Eg he sees an old car they used to use for going on picnics and he feels compelled to say how much noise it made from creaking.  Why can he not just zip it, and realise he is incredibly privileged. 
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 12:29:20 am »

I think he tells his mother how he was "ill treated" as a child to try to get his way.

It was a horrible thing for him to do - to publically diss his parents.  Yet he had big problems with Diana calling him out on what a cr@p husband he was - hypocrite  eating cookies 
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