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Author Topic: Charles & Diana's Marriage  (Read 25462 times)
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Rosella
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« Reply #220 on: July 03, 2017, 10:07:05 pm »

None of the biographies on Diana that I've read (and I've bought several over the years) speak of her having had a miscarriage, not even Sarah Bradford or Lady Colin Campbell, who had access to Society gossip, mention it. Nor, more significantly, did Diana ever mention that she'd had a miscarriage in any of her tapes. Nor does it come up in female friends' memories of her.

This may or may not be relevant but Diana later complained to Morton and others that Charles was rather reluctant to make love to her. She stated that it was a once every three weeks sort of thing, but 'somehow we had Harry'. Of course, that rate has nothing to do with losing a baby but you self- evidently of course you have to have sex to become pregnant!
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« Reply #221 on: July 03, 2017, 10:39:40 pm »

^ That's something I've been thinking about too. Never has it been said by anything remotely "official" that she had one and she herself never said it either. Depending on the circumstances and what went on, it would have been quite an addition to the Wales war, "I lost our child and C wasn't there for me". Maybe she had one and kept that really private...  dontknow What sent speculation into overdrive, understandably, was that she'd interrupted a family holiday to specifically go to her gyn in Ldn all the way from the boonies (I kid, from Scotland I think to remember, Balmoral). Makes it look like sth was up. If she had a regular appointment, I'm sure that could have been moved to a more convenient date..

I can't quite understand why he wouldn't touch Diana, it's not like he didn't have a libido, he seems to have been at it with Camz like a rabbit. And with his duty to have an heir and a spare it's even weirder..
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« Reply #222 on: July 03, 2017, 11:06:38 pm »

^In regards to that, maybe Charles likes to do certain things that he didn't have the guts to ask his virginal bride to do or didn't have the patience to teach her. A lot of powerful men are like that and they prefer a 'well trained' woman for the sick stuff they like. Camilla's vast experience could mean that she's skilled at stuff we can't imagine and I daresay that Diana likely didn't know the half of it. I mean, there was something mentioned on here how at a party the guys would throw their car keys on a table and the woman would pick up the one and go off with the man whose keys she picked.

Being who she was at her status, Diana was raised to be a chatelaine and basically knew that she wouldn't have to degrade herself by using sexual acrobatics to get a man to marry her. Diana's future was secure and was going to be something that was straightforward. Camilla on the other hand was someone who was going to have to make an effort if she wanted someone with real status and she couldn't just easily attract one by meeting a compatible guy while working the corporate ladder or working in a shop, the only way up was via a man and I can kind of see how Camilla really did think that it would be the only way for her. Yet, she wrecked Charles' marriage and that is what makes it unforgivable.
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« Reply #223 on: July 04, 2017, 01:23:39 am »

Thanks for that. I remember her visit to London now.
I never paid much attention to it at the time. I think I still believed in the fairy tale at that point.
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Rosella
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« Reply #224 on: July 04, 2017, 02:58:29 am »

Camilla was a debutante, who came out at Queen Charlotte's Ball at eighteen. Her father was comfortably off but mother's family, the Cubitts, had a lot of money. An ancestor had been responsible for developing whole suburbs of London.

 Both sides of the family were well-connected, with titles on both sides. Camilla, whom I think is pretty loathsome, nevertheless wasn't worried about getting a job after she'd been to finishing school in Switzerland. I doubt that she would have known what a corporate ladder was.

Camilla had a few temporary jobs, including one at an art dealers that only lasted a couple of days. She was late because she was visiting her wealthy grandmother at the Savoy hotel the night before and overslept. Camilla shared a London flat with the daughter of the Cabinet of the Exchequer.

Junor, in her latest book, remarks that Camilla was completely unambitious as all she wanted to be was an upper middleclass wife in the country with horses and dogs, like her mother. She had boyfriends, notably from the polo and horsy set, because she (fox) hunted (as did her father who was a Master of Foxhounds) and was often at the polo. She fell in love with Andrew PB at eighteen and pursued him for seven years on and off, but not primarily for status and money. She was nominally his girlfriend but he was a womaniser.

The only female who married into the Royal family who had not much money and who worked because she needed to, and had a ton of boyfriends along the way was Fergie. Her father, Major Ron, was well-connected as was her mother, but there was no money on either side.
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sandy
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« Reply #225 on: July 04, 2017, 05:22:32 pm »

Camilla had lovers not boyfriends. She was experienced when she started dating Andrew PB. The two cheated on each other.
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« Reply #226 on: July 04, 2017, 07:23:07 pm »

Camilla was a debutante, who came out at Queen Charlotte's Ball at eighteen. Her father was comfortably off but mother's family, the Cubitts, had a lot of money. An ancestor had been responsible for developing whole suburbs of London.

 Both sides of the family were well-connected, with titles on both sides. Camilla, whom I think is pretty loathsome, nevertheless wasn't worried about getting a job after she'd been to finishing school in Switzerland. I doubt that she would have known what a corporate ladder was.

Camilla had a few temporary jobs, including one at an art dealers that only lasted a couple of days. She was late because she was visiting her wealthy grandmother at the Savoy hotel the night before and overslept. Camilla shared a London flat with the daughter of the Cabinet of the Exchequer.

Junor, in her latest book, remarks that Camilla was completely unambitious as all she wanted to be was an upper middleclass wife in the country with horses and dogs, like her mother. She had boyfriends, notably from the polo and horsy set, because she (fox) hunted (as did her father who was a Master of Foxhounds) and was often at the polo. She fell in love with Andrew PB at eighteen and pursued him for seven years on and off, but not primarily for status and money. She was nominally his girlfriend but he was a womaniser.

The only female who married into the Royal family who had not much money and who worked because she needed to, and had a ton of boyfriends along the way was Fergie. Her father, Major Ron, was well-connected as was her mother, but there was no money on either side.

Camilla's money and contacts doesn't change the fact that she was clearly sleeping with almost everyone she met. She didn't have much by way of herself and you're missing the point: Camilla was blazing through every bed she could find and also be passed around to. She never seemed to be able to find a man who pursued her with honorable intentions and she didn't seem to actually go out on the town to nice places with any guy that we know of.
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« Reply #227 on: July 04, 2017, 10:42:26 pm »

^ Camilla lived the life of upper middleclass women of the time. Upper class people attended polo matches and hunted, and she saw them in London as well. She and Andrew Parker Bowles went out on the town to restaurants in the West End and to parties, while they dated. We know they went to polo balls.

The Parker Bowles family had Royal and other upper class connections, Andrew was a Guards officer, the Household Cavalry is probably the smartest regiment in the British Army. He got engaged to Camilla and married her after all, (betrothal and marriage are surely honourable) and when they were dating they certainly wouldn't have been sitting at home every night! They also attended houseparties in the country at some weekends like other people of their class.

I'm certainly no fan of Camilla's but, KF, where have you read that she led a wild life being passed from man to man?  She had other boyfriends, we know Charles was one, but certainly nothing like you have described. Could you please give me links to articles or books that name these dozens of men she slept with and Camilla's lifestyle as a single woman? If she'd had that sort of hugely wild reputation it's strange that royalty, including the Queen Mother, would have come to her wedding.

I don't know what you mean by 'she didn't have much by way of herself'. She and her siblings had Cubitt money. Her grandmother, Sonia was very wealthy and her grandchildren were left considerable sums. That's why Camilla didn't need to work as a single woman.
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« Reply #228 on: July 04, 2017, 10:53:36 pm »

Camilla was a debutante, who came out at Queen Charlotte's Ball at eighteen. Her father was comfortably off but mother's family, the Cubitts, had a lot of money. An ancestor had been responsible for developing whole suburbs of London.

 Both sides of the family were well-connected, with titles on both sides. Camilla, whom I think is pretty loathsome, nevertheless wasn't worried about getting a job after she'd been to finishing school in Switzerland. I doubt that she would have known what a corporate ladder was.

Camilla had a few temporary jobs, including one at an art dealers that only lasted a couple of days. She was late because she was visiting her wealthy grandmother at the Savoy hotel the night before and overslept. Camilla shared a London flat with the daughter of the Cabinet of the Exchequer.

Junor, in her latest book, remarks that Camilla was completely unambitious as all she wanted to be was an upper middleclass wife in the country with horses and dogs, like her mother. She had boyfriends, notably from the polo and horsy set, because she (fox) hunted (as did her father who was a Master of Foxhounds) and was often at the polo. She fell in love with Andrew PB at eighteen and pursued him for seven years on and off, but not primarily for status and money. She was nominally his girlfriend but he was a womaniser.

The only female who married into the Royal family who had not much money and who worked because she needed to, and had a ton of boyfriends along the way was Fergie. Her father, Major Ron, was well-connected as was her mother, but there was no money on either side.

Camilla's money and contacts doesn't change the fact that she was clearly sleeping with almost everyone she met. She didn't have much by way of herself and you're missing the point: Camilla was blazing through every bed she could find and also be passed around to. She never seemed to be able to find a man who pursued her with honorable intentions and she didn't seem to actually go out on the town to nice places with any guy that we know of.

Mountbatten did refer to Camilla as "good mistress material" for Charles. She was not virginal when she started dating APB and the two cheated on each other. So she should not have been "shocked" that the same pattern continued into the marriage. Mountbatten wanted his (then) underage granddaughter Amanda. to grow up so while that was happening Charles could get involved with "unsuitable" women he could not even consider marrying then when she came of age, he could marry Amanda. The Queen Mum was fond of Andrew Parker Bowles and I think that's why she attended Camilla's and Andrew's wedding.

She was under the radar for the media when Charles was looking for Ms. Right. THen after she was "safely" married she was portrayed as one of Charles' married friends who "inspected" his girlfriends for suitability for dating.

Charles did not see her as a possible wife and mother to his children. He admitted to his biographer he moved on because he was "too young" to get married.
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Rosella
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« Reply #229 on: July 04, 2017, 11:10:35 pm »

^ I dislike Camilla intensely, and she was certainly as a married woman regarded as a 'safe' mistress for Charles, and she almost certainly had a lover or two in her marriage besides Charles after her children were born. Camilla met Andrew at eighteen when she was a deb and I would bet, although I certainly don't know, that it was Andrew that she lost her virginity to. She had other boyfriends during the seven or so years that she and Andrew were dating and she was nominally his girlfriend.

However, I have never read anywhere that Camilla as a single woman blazed her way through men and slept with practically every man she met. If you have read that anywhere Sandy, could you please tell me where, so I can look it up and read it for myself?

Nor have I ever read that she never went out to anywhere nice in town or that boyfriends never took her out anywhere. There are photos still around of a young Camilla and a young Charles in a car having attended an event, so she certainly went out on that occasion and with a very prominent boyfriend!

Camilla was independently wealthy, by the way. As I said in my previous post she and her siblings had access to Cubitt money when she was single and Sonia Cubitt left her £500,000.
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sandy
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« Reply #230 on: July 05, 2017, 12:21:08 am »

No, she lost her virginity to someone else. He came forward to the media

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-459315/The-night-Camilla-lost-virginity--changed-history-royals.html

Let me put it this way, Camilla was very experienced. Junor says she was referred to Charles by Lucia Santa Cruz. But Junor fails to mention that Charles lost his virginity to Lucia who told him to meet Camilla. That photo with Charles was not from an individual date with Charles. It was from ca. 1975 after her marriage to APB. Other photos show that Andrew was also on this "date." Charles oddly "dated" the mistresses at times with their husbands present. He also did the same with Dale Tryon and her husband. Very strange. So Charles could be out with these ladies and it be "safe" because the husbands were there too. All very "civilized". Charles was not her boyfriend during that night on the town, on the surface she was with her husband with Charles going with them.

Camilla had money troubles after the divorce from APB. She really was not independently wealthy so Charles purchased her home Raymill for her since she apparently could not afford to keep it. I don't know what happened to the money she inherited. It seems it was not enough for her to maintain a comfortable lifestyle.
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Rosella
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« Reply #231 on: July 05, 2017, 12:52:37 am »

^ Yes, I read that article after I'd posted! Nevertheless, three boyfriends with whom Camilla was probably intimate does not mean that she was a wild woman with a disgusting reputation who bedded every man she saw. When Camilla was young it was the Swinging Sixties and certainly there were plenty of girls in London, who were worse, much worse! It certainly made her unsuitable as a wife of Charles, however, as his future wife wasn't supposed to have had a sexual past at all. Lucia Santa Cruz, incidentally, has always denied that she was Charles's lover and does so again in Junor's latest book. She stated that she was dating her future husband at the time she met Charles.

There is also in this article ample proof that Camilla was taken out by boyfriends to cocktail parties, dances and other events within London Society, as pages in magazines like Tatler showed. As far as her money went, the Parker Bowles' hunted, a very expensive pastime, and it was supposedly Camilla's money that bought Bolehyde, their first marital home.

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« Reply #232 on: July 05, 2017, 12:58:24 am »

Perhaps her wrecking a marriage has rather dirtied her in my eyes.

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« Reply #233 on: July 05, 2017, 01:15:42 am »

^ I regard Camilla as totally disgusting, callous, disdainful and horrible individual, KF. I can hardly bear to look at photos of her grinning face.  We talk about Kate but at least Kate didn't plot to destroy the marriage of a very young woman and later move into Highgrove to act as hostess in her lover's wife's place. IMO I hope she never becomes Queen.
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« Reply #234 on: July 05, 2017, 01:19:40 am »

^ Yes, I read that article after I'd posted! Nevertheless, three boyfriends with whom Camilla was probably intimate does not mean that she was a wild woman with a disgusting reputation who bedded every man she saw. When Camilla was young it was the Swinging Sixties and certainly there were plenty of girls in London, who were worse, much worse! It certainly made her unsuitable as a wife of Charles, however, as his future wife wasn't supposed to have had a sexual past at all. Lucia Santa Cruz, incidentally, has always denied that she was Charles's lover and does so again in Junor's latest book. She stated that she was dating her future husband at the time she met Charles.

There is also in this article ample proof that Camilla was taken out by boyfriends to cocktail parties, dances and other events within London Society, as pages in magazines like Tatler showed. As far as her money went, the Parker Bowles' hunted, a very expensive pastime, and it was supposedly Camilla's money that bought Bolehyde, their first marital home.



I don't think Camilla gave Charles his first sexual experience--certainly Junor would have used that if it were true. I am not sure why Santa Cruz denies it at this late date. Charles was said to be smitten with her. Lucia dating someone in that circle would not have barred her from sleeping with the Prince.

Camilla was never really independently wealthy. And she had expensive tastes, obviously.

KF it is nauseating that this woman is raised to sainthood by Junor and other lackeys after what she did. At least Wallis did not break up a royal marriage the way Camilla did.

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« Reply #235 on: July 05, 2017, 01:42:07 am »

According to Tina Brown, Camilla allegedly had money, but she ended up blowing it all on a new house after her divorce and by making herself cash poor, placed herself in Charles' hands via the reasoning that a visible royal mistress has to look good. Charles fell for it hook, line, and sinker. So she started mooching right after. Allegedly her finances were so bad that she had to hide when merchants came calling for their bills to be paid. Despite being connected, she was not so rich that she had the best of everything. Camilla had her debut in a rented ballroom and had off the rack dresses and borrowed family jewels. I don't think she was ever wealthy that she could live like Diana could. She didn't really actually have the same kind of security. She was dependent on Charles' largesse that came her way and was certainly not going to be able to lead a comfortable country life if she were single. Camilla's family was not going to throw all sorts of money her way and I do know that for her, marriage and her husband's salary was the only way for her to survive. Women of her background were practically FORBIDDEN to have careers since their role was mainly ornamental.
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« Reply #236 on: July 05, 2017, 02:01:47 am »

By the 1960's though there were very few country gentry families or indeed aristocrats who had large houses in London any more in which debutante balls could be held. If there wasn't a large stately home in the country most people whose daughters still became debs used West End hotels and rented ballrooms. Young girls weren't supposed to have vast amounts of jewellery apart from a string of pearls and a few bracelets and earrings. Diana herself used the Spencer tiara on her wedding day, which was borrowed.

I've got a suspicion that the Parker Bowles lived up to their income and then some. There was a bit of money in the Parker Bowles family, but being an officer in a smart regiment costs, even nowadays. Then there was the hunting, the social life around the hunting/polo set, horses' maintenance and the house to be bought which wouldn't have been cheap. £500,000 not invested wisely (and I have read she lost money in a Lloyds collapse in the 1980's) would have been sizeably reduced under those circumstances.
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« Reply #237 on: July 09, 2017, 01:43:50 am »

According to Tina Brown, Camilla allegedly had money, but she ended up blowing it all on a new house after her divorce and by making herself cash poor, placed herself in Charles' hands via the reasoning that a visible royal mistress has to look good. Charles fell for it hook, line, and sinker. So she started mooching right after. Allegedly her finances were so bad that she had to hide when merchants came calling for their bills to be paid. Despite being connected, she was not so rich that she had the best of everything. Camilla had her debut in a rented ballroom and had off the rack dresses and borrowed family jewels. I don't think she was ever wealthy that she could live like Diana could. She didn't really actually have the same kind of security. She was dependent on Charles' largesse that came her way and was certainly not going to be able to lead a comfortable country life if she were single. Camilla's family was not going to throw all sorts of money her way and I do know that for her, marriage and her husband's salary was the only way for her to survive. Women of her background were practically FORBIDDEN to have careers since their role was mainly ornamental.

  Camilla lost most of her money when Lloyds crashed... Charles encouraged all his friend to give her money to buy Raymill, and he also contributed.  She did not blow it on anything.
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« Reply #238 on: August 06, 2017, 03:37:23 pm »

Princess Diana once overheard Prince Charles talking dirty to mistress Camilla Parker Bowles while sitting on the loo, secret bombshell tapes reveal
The Princess of Wales unloaded years of anger with the Royal Family in tapes recorded just months before her death in 1997

sex talk” with Camilla.

She also said that Camilla was the “raunchier of the two” after listening in on some of her husband’s phone calls to his mistress.

Her claims emerged in 12 hours of footage filmed by a handpicked BBC cameraman five months before her death in 1997.

They are separate to the tapes made by her voice coach Peter Settelen, which are due to be broadcast on Channel 4 tonight.

The cameraman, who has not been named, was secretly summoned to Kensington Palace by Diana in March 1997.

Over seven recording sessions, she offloaded years of anger with the Royal Family, including how she caught Charles red-handed — or “de flagrante” — talking with his mistress.

The cameraman kept a diary of the sessions in which he wrote: “She caught Charles and Camilla de flagrante after listening in to his phone calls.

“She described how she came to listen to their phone calls. In one, Charles was sitting on the toilet seat when she caught him.”

He said she described their conversation as phone sex talk, and claimed “Camilla was the raunchier of the two. She gives examples”.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4179390/princess-diana-caught-prince-charles-talking-dirty-on-loo/
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HRHOlya
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« Reply #239 on: August 06, 2017, 04:18:05 pm »

Oh wow, so more tapes exist, from march 1997?
This is certainly a new aspect. It gives me the impression that in the long run Diana might not have regretted the panorama interview and book with Morton, because then she wouldn't have done a new set of tapes as late as 1997...
Instead of destroying the Settelen tapes, she kept them, who knows why, but a possibility is imo that she might've intended to leak them at some point to the media..

The pic in my head of Charles sitting on the bog, having phone sex with Camilla is really funny!
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