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Author Topic: The 'oldmoney' Goldsmiths  (Read 87073 times)
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Countess of Holland
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« Reply #300 on: August 31, 2013, 06:31:13 pm »

I reac the book by Lady Antonia Fraser about Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire. When the book was published in The Netherlands, there was an interview with Lady Antonia about the peerage and their affairs.
She said that there was an unwritten rule that women were free to do as they pleased but only after providing an heir and a spare for their husband.

considering that Frances had not even provided an heir in 1959 when she was having the alledged affair with Goldsmith, I very much doubt that the affair happened at all. No way Spencer would have stood for it. She could have become pregnant with a son who would the be his legal heir...he would have divorced her then and there.

And both Prince William and Prince Harry have resemblances to the Spencer-family as well.
As for resemblances with the Goldsmith children, their mother is an aristocrat and all these peers are intermarried in so many ways it is getting incestuous. And these traits can go a long way back. Just look at Princess Beatrice who shares the eyes of her ancestor Queen Victoria.
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« Reply #301 on: September 01, 2013, 01:27:52 am »

Quote
I reac the book by Lady Antonia Fraser about Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire. When the book was published in The Netherlands, there was an interview with Lady Antonia about the peerage and their affairs.
She said that there was an unwritten rule that women were free to do as they pleased but only after providing an heir and a spare for their husband.
You must be mistaken. The famous book Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire was written by Amanda Foreman.
Antonia Fraser has never written a book about her. Else, I totally agree with your post.
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Freya
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« Reply #302 on: September 01, 2013, 07:06:51 am »

^
I think that Antonia has reviewed this book so perhaps that's where the confusion is.
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« Reply #303 on: September 01, 2013, 07:12:02 am »

When James Goldsmith was very ill Diana was kept informed. Diana was also very friendly with Annabelle more so than her own mother.

I personally think that the likeness between the Goldsmith siblings and half sibling and Diana is striking.
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« Reply #304 on: September 01, 2013, 01:55:16 pm »

^^ Indeed, it was a review by Lady Antonia. I was confused since Lady Fraser has written so many biographies herself.
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« Reply #305 on: September 01, 2013, 04:05:18 pm »

When James Goldsmith was very ill Diana was kept informed. Diana was also very friendly with Annabelle more so than her own mother.

I personally think that the likeness between the Goldsmith siblings and half sibling and Diana is striking.

Diana was also friendly with Elsa Bowker an older woman. It was not that she was related to Annabelle but that Diana had sort of surrogate mothers since her relationship with her mother Frances was not always amicable to put it mildly. William particularly has the Spencer chin that John Spencer and Charles Spencer have. The resemblance is striking.  Harry closely resembles his cousins (through Sarah Spencer).  And Lady Cynthia Spencer looks a lot like Diana and Diana referred to her as guarding her from heaven. If Diana thought she was not her "real" grandmother I think she would not have talked about inheriting her dedication to charity from Cynthia Spencer.
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« Reply #306 on: September 01, 2013, 04:06:15 pm »

When James Goldsmith was very ill Diana was kept informed. Diana was also very friendly with Annabelle more so than her own mother.

I personally think that the likeness between the Goldsmith siblings and half sibling and Diana is striking.

Agree, the resemblance is indeed very striking, if you did not know anything of Diana you would be forgiven for thinking she was part of that family.  
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« Reply #307 on: September 01, 2013, 04:45:10 pm »

There is no proof that Diana is a Goldsmith. I think it would have come out had it been true. Frances was expected to produce a male heir  at the time and if she introduced someone else's child to John, she would have been ousted right away and the marriage annulled. When she took4 up with Shand Kydd after she produced the boy in 1964.
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« Reply #308 on: September 05, 2013, 11:09:37 pm »

^

It's completely obvious and clear that Diana's father was Sir James Goldsmith. And that he had to be murdered before her, since he would have blown the lid off sooooo much.

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Perhaps it's time for Henry IX and
The House of Hewitt ?
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« Reply #309 on: September 06, 2013, 03:22:01 pm »

Not obvious to everybody. Read the authorized bio of Diana's mother and the conditions of her marriage. If she fell madly in love with Goldsmith do you honestly think she would have stayed with John? She didn't hesitate to bolt for Shand Kydd. I think if there were anything to this rumor, she'd have married Goldsmith, had kids with him and Diana and her sisters would be primarily with John Spencer and he would have remarried to have the male heir.
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« Reply #310 on: September 06, 2013, 04:49:30 pm »

The Aristos have been marrying into each others families for so many centuries that if one has similar features to a person who is not in their immediate family it doesn't necessarily mean that they must be siblings.
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« Reply #311 on: September 06, 2013, 07:51:20 pm »

^

It's completely obvious and clear that Diana's father was Sir James Goldsmith. And that he had to be murdered before her, since he would have blown the lid off sooooo much.

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Are there people in your world who actually die of natural causes? James Goldsmith was not murdered, his illness, pancreatic cancer, was well-documented and he won't be the first to suffer a heart-attack because of intense treatments against his pancreatic cancer (which is one of the most lethal cancers anyway with a very low survival rate).

And I don't see any likeness between Sir James Goldsmith and Princess Diana. Diana had a long-shaped face while Jimmy Goldsmith had a round face. The shape of their eyes and chin is different as well.
Any likeness between the Goldsmits children (the ones he had with Lady Annabel) and Princess Diana is more like to be through the aristocratic gene-pool that Princess Diana and Lady Annabel shared.
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gingerboy24
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« Reply #312 on: September 06, 2013, 09:57:35 pm »

^

It's completely obvious and clear that Diana's father was Sir James Goldsmith. And that he had to be murdered before her, since he would have blown the lid off sooooo much.

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Yes, I think so too.  She looks so much like all of JG´s children.  Who knowss what these families get up to. As Diana was not a boy and would not inherit Allthorpe probably not a major problem to Johnny Spencer  -  probably no saint himself.  They do lead busy and complicated lives don´t they.  How on earth do they work out their family trees..!
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« Reply #313 on: September 06, 2013, 10:11:48 pm »

But he didn't know that Diana would have been a girl when his wife got pregnant with her third child.

Nowadays with DNA a peer can denounce a child, but back in the 1960's he could not have prevented a child from inheriting the peerage if Diana would have been a boy and his heir. And seeing that the British peerage is well-known for their anti-semitism, I doubt Johnny Spencer would have stood for the possibility that a child of James Goldsmith would inherit Althorpe, the peerage etc.

Now if John Spencer and his wife would have had a few boys prior to Diana, I would have given this some credibility, but not while Frances still had to give birth to an heir.
And like I said, I don't see any resemblances between James Goldsmith and Diana. Only a slight resemblance between Diana and the children of Lady Annabel. But then again when looking at pictures of Annabel in her 20's I see a resemblance between her and Diana. Or are you telling us that Annabel is Diana's mother?
Just because someone is noble, doesn't mean that they were the result of some illicit affair.
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« Reply #314 on: September 06, 2013, 10:17:33 pm »

Sorry for doubleposting, I found this interesting article on-line about Frances and James Goldsmith:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-315244/Were-Diana-Jemima-sisters.html

'During that year, 1960, Frances barely left Norfolk,' one of her close friends told me. 'She was depressed, wrapped up in herself, constantly worried that she had let her husband down, desperate to become pregnant once more.'
Compare this picture of rural gloom with James Goldsmith's sunsplashed life.
He was already the father of two children (Isabel, by his first wife, the Bolivian heiress Isabel Patino who died in childbirth, and Manes, his son by his secretary and mistress Ginette Lery), and he was leading a peripatetic, glamorous life between Paris, London and the Cote d'Azur.

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« Reply #315 on: November 02, 2013, 12:21:56 am »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2482452/Newly-single-Jemima-Khan-attends-Halloween-ball-alongside-ex-Hugh-Grant.html

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« Reply #316 on: November 02, 2013, 01:43:48 am »

With John Spencer constantly at her to have the male heir and the visits to the doctors, Frances was probably too exhausted to have an affair.
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