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Author Topic: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public  (Read 39304 times)
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Alexandrine
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« on: August 22, 2011, 04:13:06 pm »

Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028820/Prince-Charles-accused-using-charities-lobby-ministers-change-policies.html#ixzz1VlrGw5Xn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/21/royal-charities-lobbied-ministers-officials
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:16:07 pm by Alexandrine » Logged



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Alexandrine
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 05:33:28 pm »

You can read Charles letters directed to the gov here: (very interesting read!)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-regeneration-trust

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-local-government

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-climate-change

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-greater-london

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-business-skills

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-international-development
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 06:53:21 pm »

I'm confused...this this good or bad?  blink
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 02:22:36 am »

It's bad. Very bad. As a would be constiutional heir to the throne he's supposed to button it when it comes to politics. It appears his charities are in line with his political views. By contrast HM is head of hundreds of charities but has never launched her own.

If Charles isn't careful it could well be his undoing. Many are saying as much. Personally I don't think it's all bad such as the Prince's Trust helping the disadvantaged and he was instrumental in saving Dumfries House for the nation but I didn't realise until I read this that he used one of the charities to raise the £27million needed.

Harry and William are also going down this route and, as we've seen from the unusual goings on with the LA polo match and moving funds from their fund into the wedding fund to boost the total, they are leaving themselves wide open to criticism.
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 05:07:57 am »

I don't think it's fair that major royals have to be silent and tiptoe around issues. 
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 10:09:16 am »

Berlin,  Hi whether we think it's fair or not that is what is expected of a Constitutional monarchy. There is a degree of ill feeling towards HM as she could have objected to the Lisbon Treaty but she didn't - she signed it and look what an utter mess we're in with regard to Europe and the EU.

When she signed the Lisbon Treaty she signed away our sovereignty and it is very very contentious indeed as our rights, although not laid down in one constitutiona like the US, have evolved through the Common Law over the centuries and have all be over-ridden by Lisbon.


It can also be argued (and I think this is the Guardian's beef) that Charles is pushing some highly contentious topics such as Climate Change which may be dear to his own heart but are still being debated and have been discredited. For instance when the University of East Anglia was found to be faking data and destroying emails he actually went over there and told them they were doing nothing wrong and they had his support.

Climate Change is also a big earner for landowners and aristos as they receive huge EU subsidies for windfarms.

Charles' role is not quite as straightforward as it seems.  easter-think
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 06:26:20 am »

The problem with HM, is that she doesn't act as monarch and treats her duties as if they are ornamental, not in the interest of Britain. She doesn't even bother keeping her family in line and getting them under her control and taking charge of any situation. She has pretty much failed as monarch and mother and grandmother.

The thing with Charles, is that he has had to define his own role on his own and figure out the limitations out on his own. He gets carried away, but he is still putting hte final touches on a newly carved out role for himself. Before him, there has never been any Prince's Trust or actual role; his predecessors did charity, but never on such a focused way in his own right, or as centered on Britain as Charles has.

He's in a preariously balanced position. On one hand he is supposed to speak up, on the other, he has to spend time being careful not to alienate the government. I did read once though, that Charles' speeches were always reviewed and in tune with govenrment policy, so it could just be agitators picking a fight.
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 06:32:24 am »

It's UBER simple.  Any un-elected official has no political voice and if they DO get involved in politics should either be arrested or silenced.  It's that clear. 
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 06:53:12 pm »

The thing is I'm starting to wonder if he isn't wearing to many different hats some times.
As crown prince of England the rules are know and set in stone so to speak, as founder and main fund raiser/advocate for Prince Trust/ Duchy and others I'm not so sure..
Even if he no longer officially was a "CEO" in the Prince Trust he can pull a lot of his weight in that corner without it being openly seen in public.
I wonder why he chooses the open "frontal attack" trough letters to the government rather then use indirect influence to get things done.   blink 
Although... if he doesn't hide his plans (that much) to the public, it shows that he is honest and open for critique (Which he is bound to get a lot for this) and thus points attention towards the issue mentioned (even if it's just for a little while)
And that might be the whole point of the exercise, to get tongues wagging!
Hmmm easter-think He's either very sly by being honest and "taking one for the team" or he's acting very stupid...and curse the devil, sly but I can't tell which one it is! dontknow
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 06:39:09 am »

I still don't get it.  If you are NOT elected by the populace, you do NOT have a political voice.  Is there something I'm not getting? 

I'm sure there is, but the monarchy is either a monarchy that shows up at international decision-making summits, pays taxes, submits to total disclosure of spending, enters political campaigns, or shuts the h up and allows itself to get $ for practically doing nothing.
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 02:09:13 pm »

That's the idea Yooper but it doesn't usually work that way.

Even if they are supposed to not express their political opinions they just do it in the shadows.
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2011, 05:20:55 pm »

The problem with HM, is that she doesn't act as monarch and treats her duties as if they are ornamental, not in the interest of Britain. She doesn't even bother keeping her family in line and getting them under her control and taking charge of any situation. She has pretty much failed as monarch and mother and grandmother.

The thing with Charles, is that he has had to define his own role on his own and figure out the limitations out on his own. He gets carried away, but he is still putting hte final touches on a newly carved out role for himself. Before him, there has never been any Prince's Trust or actual role; his predecessors did charity, but never on such a focused way in his own right, or as centered on Britain as Charles has.

He's in a preariously balanced position. On one hand he is supposed to speak up, on the other, he has to spend time being careful not to alienate the government. I did read once though, that Charles' speeches were always reviewed and in tune with govenrment policy, so it could just be agitators picking a fight.

Nevertheless, the Queen is a respected monarch. I don't see her failing as a monarch--she has fared a lot better as a monarch than with her family--she is not supposed to cross the line and get involved in politics, leaving the politics to the Government. She has been a capable ambassadress for visits overseas and visits by representatives from other countries. Arguably the Queen is a lot more respected than her son Charles. Her son has led a rather untidy life and opened himself up to criticism. The Queen apparently could not or would not control  him or his lifestyle. She just tried to hope the problems would go away by themselves. She also had two other children who divorced --Andrew and Fergie's issues caused her a lot of grief too.
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 07:21:40 am »

Monarchy + Politics = Ginormous Mistake

Monarch + Politics ANYWAY =  The END of the Monarchy

Honestly, it's that's simple.  The Monarchy should have zero influence on politics and the government should have no influence from the Monarchy on decision-making. 

An Ideal I know, but the only other choice is getting rid of one or the other. 

Thomas Jefferson knew this a long time ago. 
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 07:16:07 am »

I think it's her age that is catching up with her,please don't think of me as being rude,she seems very humbled but she can not control how her son acts no parent can PC is of age to know better;as for the rest of her family acting like ruthless animals thats all on them she has done her job well,and continues to do so.
I do fear her age is a main concern now,she is past her 70's and is in her 80s?,correct;it's like asking you're 80 yr old grandmum to control certain family members,you most certainly would not blame her for their wrong doing.Charles is still naive and thinks of himself even though I do believe HM should put him and her family back in line.
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 10:53:32 am »

To be honest, politicians should stop meddling in the affairs of the RF as well in some areas.
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2012, 03:16:26 pm »

Cannons to the right of us, cannons to the left of us. Onwards, onwards rode the six hundred into the valley of death they thundered.

With apologies to the Charge of the Light Brigade but it seems a few chickens are coming home to roost. This time in the shape of the Information Comissioner (again) and a judges tribunal which has ruled Charles' lobbying letters must be made public.

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The government has for the first time been ordered to disclose copies of confidential letters that Prince Charles wrote to ministers.

The publication of the letters will reveal how the heir to the throne has been lobbying ministers behind the scenes with his strongly held opinions.

In a significant ruling published on Tuesday, three judges in a freedom of information tribunal decided the public is entitled to know how the prince seeks to alter government policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/18/prince-charles-letters-ministers-judges?CMP=twt_gu

Quite another little annus horriblis it's turning out to be. In view of everything that's happened recently I also wonder what will happen in Scotland over the RF being exempt from FOI Act.

Quote
Plans by the Scottish government to keep any communication between ministers and the royal family secret are in direct conflict with the public interest, MSPs are to hear.
Scotland's Information Commissioner has described proposed reforms to freedom of information law as setting a "worrying precedent".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19565565
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2012, 10:15:13 pm »

Thanks for keeping watch regarding this issue, TB.
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2012, 11:20:44 pm »

Neutrality of Prince of Wales might be questioned if 'black spider' memos made public, former aide warns

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9551222/Neutrality-of-Prince-of-Wales-might-be-questioned-if-black-spider-memos-made-public-former-aide-warns.html

So if I get their argument right they cannot publish them because until he is not king he shouldn't be neutral no? But that means that everyone already knows that he is biased. Second what he was doing according to the articles was not simply learning about the gov but trying to change their policies but of course the problem is publishing the letters not what Charles is doing?  sigh
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2012, 11:55:06 pm »

^Absolutely right, Alexandrine. PC is often unbelievable in his arrogance.

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Sir Stephen Lamport, his former private secretary, said the Prince believes that writing to Government ministers prepares him for when he is made king and will stop the controversial practice when he is crowned.

Um, okay... so how does writing to ministers prepare you for when you are king, the info is meant to flow to you from ministers.  And, of course you won't need to write letters as monarch, because you will have 30 minutes a week alone with the PM, for an off the record no holds barred discussion/download in secret!

Quote
According to the ruling, Sir Stephen stressed that the “public perception” of the prince’s party political neutrality was “of crucial importance” and that “public knowledge” of his letters could damage it, particularly after he became king.

Just so you're aware, Chucky, the public perception is that you are about as politically neutral as a speechwriter at a political party convention.  And that you would rather like to reincarnated as a tampon.

Quote
In June 2001 the Prince complained to the then Lord Chancellor Lord Irvine, that the UK was “sliding inexorably down the slope of ever increasing, petty-minded litigiousness”.

It's rather petty-minded litigiousness to sue a foreign magazine for publishing photos taken from a public road, when the horse had already bolted, and there was a public interest in reporting celebrities shirking their taxpayer-funded duty anyway.



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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 12:06:08 am »

NO one in that family has any business involved in the government without oversight; it takes a lot of nerve of Charles since after all, the RF has a long established record of lying with a straight face to the public and bluntly asking for more and more and more money that they have no real right to.

Quote
It's rather petty-minded litigiousness to sue a foreign magazine for publishing photos taken from a public road, when the horse had already bolted, and there was a public interest in reporting celebrities shirking their taxpayer-funded duty anyway.

Quote
In June 2001 the Prince complained to the then Lord Chancellor Lord Irvine, that the UK was “sliding inexorably down the slope of ever increasing, petty-minded litigiousness”.

Meanwhile his own son is on a rampage like a madman going against a publication and now trying to get a photog jailed and with a stain on the permanent record.

Quote
Quite another little annus horriblis it's turning out to be. In view of everything that's happened recently


I can't feel sorry for HM over this; she failed to do the right thing her whole reign and the RF is bringing this on themselves, there hasn't been real persecution. They have no problems pushing people around and now that people are pushing back, apparently the RF doesn't like it. Well, tough; if for once they would take personal responsibility for the results and problems in their lives, they wouldn't have these problems, would they?
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