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Author Topic: The Romanovs  (Read 67518 times)
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2011, 05:51:24 am »

de nada NightHawk easter-egg-basket yeah he's cute looking & classy. Bet you his mama & grandmama are extra protective of him and the type of girls he see. He needs to get their approval of a girl just to date him. hehehe.

How long until Kate pushes Pippa at him? It would be interesting to see them try to break through, since the Romanovs are among the most secretive of royal families and also the most 'blended in.' Almost no one knows who they are and all have careers and insanely downkey lifestyles. You almost never hear of them and until know, few (except Russian history buffs) have seen photos of George or know anything about the dynastic quarrels going on.
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 10:58:35 am »

http://www.spletnik.ru/blogs/govoryat_chto/3626_cesarevich_i_velikij_knyaz_georgij_mixajlovich

With pretty photos of his mother "Empress" Maria.
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 12:51:07 pm »

Thank you Dahlia in one of the photos she looks like Elizabeth Taylor.
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2011, 05:03:02 pm »

Here's a really hilarious story I read:

Some time after the marriage, after George was born, her husband came home and found his suitcases in the hallway, packed and neatly arranged.



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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2011, 09:09:06 pm »

You´re welcome Alexandrine!  flower


Why did they split?
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2011, 10:48:51 pm »

I truly don't know. In the biography, Maria just threw him out.

In terms of royal bachelorhood, he is highly eligible since he is (in theory and lineage despite the dispute) Heir directly after the current Pretender Maria. This is why I am often unimpressed with the claims of people like Pippa when the tabloids tout them as 'the most eligible...' and why I am disgusted that William married Kate; he could have had his pick of Romanov princesses/grand duchesses and other assorted Eastern European princesses.

But then, this is what happens when you let the tabloids run the culture.

His mother must keep him in some sort of lockdown or at least surrounded by family so he isn't taken advantage of by social climbing females.
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Vicki
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2011, 11:31:41 pm »

Kuei Fei, Pippa or any other commoner has no chance with him. Romanov house law prohibits unequal marriages. He has to marry someone who is of Royal blood. 

His parents split because his father (Prince of Prussia) renaged on the agreement that his son will be Russian prince and not Prussian. Apparently, he has secretly registered him as Prussian Prince. 

 
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2011, 11:36:44 pm »

Thanks KF and Vicki!  thankyou

Because of this they split? I thought dynasty affairs would have been discussed before the wedding.
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Vicki
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2011, 11:48:57 pm »

Thanks KF and Vicki!  thankyou

Because of this they split? I thought dynasty affairs would have been discussed before the wedding.
You are welcome. They have not only discussed this but signed the document as well.  I suppose Maria and her father thought that it was a very dishonest thing to do...
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2011, 12:58:28 am »

Because of this they split? I thought dynasty affairs would have been discussed before the wedding.

Who knows.

Another interesting facet is, that maybe the marriage was settled by both sides and then all of a sudden, the Prince reneged. Either way, it's causing problems within the Romanov family.
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« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2011, 02:08:38 am »

^^^ I understand the dilemma, but this boy is now a man and can make his own decisions. It appears he has chosen Russia, but what I don't understand is why he cannot potentially be considered heir of both realms, as they're both defunct royal houses and technically a decision didn't have to be made for him, but by him, when he was old enough to do so. And I've wondered whether or not this marriage was just for the convenience of producing an heir that met the strict laws of Russia's royal succession? ...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 02:13:04 am by Earth Angel » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2011, 03:56:34 am »

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And I've wondered whether or not this marriage was just for the convenience of producing an heir that met the strict laws of Russia's royal succession? ...

It's most likely. In the Eastern countries/royalties, they are brutally pragmatic about lineage and suitability and usually (I think) factor in romance after the practical things are worked out. 

Interestingly, the Romanovs view 'commoners' as those who are not royal, but have titles. For them, House Law is still important and I think that is how they've survived as long as they have despite the butchery of the revolution.
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« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2011, 03:48:02 pm »

de nada NightHawk easter-egg-basket yeah he's cute looking & classy. Bet you his mama & grandmama are extra protective of him and the type of girls he see. He needs to get their approval of a girl just to date him. hehehe.

How long until Kate pushes Pippa at him? It would be interesting to see them try to break through, since the Romanovs are among the most secretive of royal families and also the most 'blended in.' Almost no one knows who they are and all have careers and insanely downkey lifestyles. You almost never hear of them and until know, few (except Russian history buffs) have seen photos of George or know anything about the dynastic quarrels going on.

 easter-lol yeah I don't see that happenin' The Midds connection is in the UK Aristo's not the main landers. And George connections is in the Med (Mediterranean) he's protected there. But it would be funny if the Midds tried. That's a whole other ball game over there. As Leti can contests to it. He must of meet a lot of Spanish princess there & yes there is a lot of princesses that are not famous nor want to be. They believe in what they have been brought up to be.

Not like these low ranking aristo's and commoners that married into certain families when its all about celebrity and making an income off their fame.

Your right you almost never hear about him & the Romanov clan for a reason to the outside world.  sigh
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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2011, 06:04:33 pm »

I thought I'd let those interested know that Georgiy isn't so much of a chunk these days. He's more of a hunk now.

And while on the topic of the Romanovs, I figured I'd add a synopsis about the House of Romanov parameters for elevating people in rank and nobility, as such explains why the elevation of Kate & Co. seems so wrong. The Middletons are neither civil servants nor have they served their country in times of war. One unsung hero in the family (Kate's grandfather) cannot be seen as justification for the family's newfound elevation. He was an UNSUNG HERO, which makes his newly declared sacrifices for his country suspect to sensationlism. If e was so important then, and known to Prince Philip, then why wasn't he, himself, elevated into the nobility?  Bestowing titles is supposed to signify more than social status and years of blind servicing of the needs of a future king. The British have got this ancient system *butt* backwards!  wellduh

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Granting noble status is neither a trend nor anything new. Peter the Great created in 1722 the Table of Ranks, which opened the pathway to noble status to anyone from any social class—to any person who distinguished himself in military or civil service. Before the Revolution, being awarded noble status conveyed with it certain privileges. But after the abolition of serfdom in 1861, these privileges began to decrease or become entirely fictional. If the monarchy had not fallen in 1917, all of the privileges enjoyed by the nobility would likely have gone away. This can be seen in the monarchies that survive today. Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna has repeatedly said that there can be no question about the revival of these privileges, even if someday the monarchy in Russia should be restored. In the modern world, the nobility is not a privileged class, but rather a state of mind. The nobility remains a living corporate entity and includes some of the best representatives of society. The only historically valid source for awarding noble status is the legitimate head of a historic Imperial or Royal dynasty. In Russia, there are very few instances of awarding noble status at the present time—literally, just a handful of instances. But according to the historical statutes of the several Imperial Orders of knighthood, knights of the fourth, third, and second classes automatically receive personal noble status, which is extended also to the knights’ spouses; and knights of the first class receive hereditary noble status, which extends also to their children. As I already said, knights of the Imperial Orders are not only high-ranking persons, but also ordinary people. That is also the way it was in the Russian Empire, only then the number of awardees was far greater than now. Of course, one can as a rule bestow noble status only to people of commoner status, to people of worker or peasant backgrounds, because nobles already have noble status. One must understand, however, that noble status is not some pretty game but is, before anything else, a responsibility to the state and to society. And if someone offers to sell you a patent of nobility, a title, or the right to wear a medal—well, you should know that there are crooks everywhere. A bogus noble patent brings no one any honor. Just shame and ridicule.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 06:12:58 pm by Earth Angel » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2011, 07:19:55 pm »

^^^ I understand the dilemma, but this boy is now a man and can make his own decisions. It appears he has chosen Russia, but what I don't understand is why he cannot potentially be considered heir of both realms, as they're both defunct royal houses and technically a decision didn't have to be made for him, but by him, when he was old enough to do so. And I've wondered whether or not this marriage was just for the convenience of producing an heir that met the strict laws of Russia's royal succession? ...
I'm pretty sure it was arranged. Its very hard to meet the requirements of Romanov House law. I don't see the problem either but something must be written in the house law about this....
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2011, 11:05:10 pm »

^^^The House of Romanov only survived as such since it was decided to carry the name in the female line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Romanov

Technically the House of Romanov is as fictitious a name as the House of Windsor. It is more accurately the House of Oldenberg and the extra chromosone, carried by Tsar Nicholas II is their most signifying genetic marker. Through various marriages throughout history, the family is more Oldenberg than anything else, with the unofficial name being Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov.

To me and some historians, it doesn't really matter whether or not Catherine the Great's son was a legitimate Romanov, as the Romanov blood was German/Prussian blood, just as the Oldenbergs were also of German origin. It's really irrelevent whether or not the originating Romanov blood is running through the veins of the existing Romanovs, as some of the "Romanov" genetic markers are there one way or another. ...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 11:08:17 pm by Earth Angel » Logged

"The searching-out and thorough investigation of truth ought to be the primary study of man." ~ Cicero
"The way to gain a good reputation, is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear" ~ Socrates
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"On the road from the City of Skepticism, I had to pass through the Valley of Ambiguity". ~ Adam Smith

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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2011, 05:43:25 am »

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It is more accurately the House of Oldenberg and the extra chromosone, carried by Tsar Nicholas II is their most signifying genetic marker. Through various marriages throughout history, the family is more Oldenberg than anything else, with the unofficial name being Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov.

I did chat with someone who is a member and he told me that Maria Vladimirovna is not considered the Curatrix of the Throne, since they recently did a huge genealogical study and here's the new announcement:

Quote
At this time, only the Holstein-Oldenburg family can claim a direct lineage to the Russian Imperial Romanoff dynasty.
 
The House of Holstein-Oldenburg traces its lineage to the Russian Imperial Family to the year 1725 when the oldest daughter of Peter the Great, Princess Anna Petrovna, married the Herzog von Holstein, Carl Friedrich.  Their son, born in 1742, was baptized in the Russian Orthodox faith and was crowned Czar Peter III in 1761.
 
Since there were no male descendants of the Romanoff family, Peter III assumed his reign under the Romanoff dynasty name which continuously ruled until 1917 in Russia.  Thus, the Holstein branch of the Oldenburg family ruled Russia as the Romanoff dynasty.
 
Currently a descendant of the Holstein-Oldenburg family, Herzog Huno von Oldenburg resides at his estate in Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, and takes a great interest in the Russian Imperial heritage.

http://www.russiannobility.org/Default.asp?page=23
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2011, 01:09:00 pm »

^^^ That's interesting KF! I'm surprised she has no Oldenburg blood. However, that is not the deciding factor for curatrix, under Russian law. Maria is most certainly considered the curatrix by the current Russian government and the Russian Orthodox church and I don't see that changing.People have been contesting her claims since the beginning, but she has always prevailed. However, this could prove to be quite a battle for recognition, if this man pursues in court. Especially Georgiy probably has Oldenburg DNA from his fathers side of the family. It's in their family tree at least.  easter-think
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"On the road from the City of Skepticism, I had to pass through the Valley of Ambiguity". ~ Adam Smith

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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2011, 03:06:18 am »

My contact told me that he himself did an independent investigation and that they went as far back as they could.

Quote
That's interesting KF! I'm surprised she has no Oldenburg blood. However, that is not the deciding factor for curatrix, under Russian law. Maria is most certainly considered the curatrix by the current Russian government and the Russian Orthodox church and I don't see that changing.People have been contesting her claims since the beginning, but she has always prevailed.


I always wondered why she is so disliked, but a part of it, as far as I read (in the Massie books "Romanovs: The Final Chapter") that it's a matter of succession, but also ambition. Prince Nicholas (one contender) states that he sees Russia as "just plain tired and that a restoration, any restoration would in fact be impossible because it would simpy add more stress to an already disorganized/fragile government" and that he would prefer to not return  and said that "Russia has much greater problems that need to be dealt with and we must all move forward."

Maria, on the other hand, frequently goes to Russia and is lauded, seems eager to have a restoration done and with her son as Heir. She has a good claim, since she is after all a direct descendent of Grand Duke Vladimir, but on the other hand, she isn't herself a Grand Duchess, since the last one the Romanovs consider a Grand Duchess was Olga Alexandrovna, sister of Nicholas II. Maria seems determined to make herself as prominent as possible and also has been working to get her son on a throne. She keeps bringing up the past as well and I wonder if she's using the past as weapon to basically get what she wants out of the Russian government.

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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2011, 03:53:09 am »

Although some think Maria's claims are dubious and she does appear ambitious, she has not been pushing the Russian Government. Boris Yeltsin's retinue came up with a plan for the restoration of the monarchy in the 1990's. I believe he even sent one of his delegates to tutor/mentor Georgiy while he was growing up. And if I remember correctly, the stated target year is 2013. ...

I wouldn't underestimate the Russian government. They've been giving back powers to the Orthodox Church, in what looks like a planned and controlled successive re-establishment of tradition. It's the government's plan, that much I'm sure of, and I think Maria is just playing her part. ...
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"The searching-out and thorough investigation of truth ought to be the primary study of man." ~ Cicero
"The way to gain a good reputation, is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear" ~ Socrates
"During times of universal deceit telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act". ~ George Orwell
"On the road from the City of Skepticism, I had to pass through the Valley of Ambiguity". ~ Adam Smith

*All posts are my opinion, based on what I know to be true at the time of the post, unless otherwise specified. All intents and purposes are free; no ill will or maliciousness involved*
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