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Author Topic: The Romanovs  (Read 61374 times)
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #160 on: December 30, 2016, 01:05:08 am »

^^ I had read that somewhere .. Wasn't it rumored his mother was plotting to assassinate Nicholas II in an attempt to place her son on throne?  I heard there was a lot of bad blood between Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna & the Empress...

Actually, the plan was to dethrone Nicholas, imprison Alexandra, and then someone would rule as Regent until Alexei was ready to rule.

Of course, the Vladimir certainly had plans of their own. Alexandra objected to the idea of Grand Duke Boris (son of Maria Pavlovna) marrying Olga. Thing is, it's just as well that the daughters perished, I cannot imagine how much pressure they would be under to marry to continue the direct line. Imagine losing your parents and then being surrounded by those eager to marry you just so they can seize headship of the Imperial House through you. Too much really.

That line of Grand Dukes and Duchesses is tainted by the virulent ambition that runs in their veins.
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Rosella
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« Reply #161 on: January 01, 2017, 01:32:27 pm »

Ninety year old Prince Dimitri Romanov dies in Denmark. He'd been to Russia earlier this year to receive an award.

https://polskanorge.com/2017/01/01/oldest-relative-of-last-russian-emperor-prince-dimitri-romanov-dies-in-denmark/
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #162 on: January 19, 2017, 02:43:34 am »

How did Tsarevich Alexis and his relatives get hemophilia?   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47obWXdTF-k
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Miss Hathaway
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« Reply #163 on: January 19, 2017, 06:27:17 pm »

Through Queen Victoria.
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #164 on: January 20, 2017, 09:26:30 pm »

When Tsarevich Nicholas asked his parents for permission to marry Princess Alix of Hesse, Empress Marie Feodorovna opposed Nicholas' wishes. Marie Feodorovna feared Alix would diminish her influence with Nicholas.
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #165 on: May 29, 2017, 12:43:42 am »

Grand Duchess Olga did escape Russia. And she wrote numerous letters about safety.   
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4545266/Russian-duchess-letters-fear-Romanovs-safety.html
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #166 on: May 29, 2017, 01:36:58 am »

You know, one thing that stuck out to me is how during the revolution, so many servants of the Romanovs suffered with the nobles and royals instead of turning colors and joining the revolution. One Russian servant endured horrendous torture to avoid giving away the location of the treasure held by one noble and yet, in the end gave in. Yet like I said, the servant had to be coerced into it, instead of just giving in willingly. Then there was Botkin and the others who preferred to die with the Imperial family instead of being turncoats and joining the revolutionaires. They could have saved their own lives, but chose to die.

The Board of the Russian Nobility Association in America announces with great regret the death of its President, Dr. Cyril Erastovich Geacintov.

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Cyril Erastovich Geacintov was born in 1930 into a Russian noble family with clerical roots in the early 17th century.  Dr. Geacintov’s family entered the Russian Imperial civil service, and were ultimately granted hereditary nobility. Members of his family graduated from the Imperial military schools and served as officers in the Caucasus, Crimea, and many other places.
http://russiannobility.org/en/in-memoriam/
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« Reply #167 on: May 29, 2017, 01:27:14 pm »

^^ good find!

^ I think it was just such a different mind set, just like "regular" workers being very loyal to their companies (eg working at Ford as mechanic), but no one these days is loyal anymore, the companies don't value their employees as much and therefore employees are more likely to seek work elsewhere..
In the past there was such prestige about working for the Winds as maid or other menial worker, not so nowadays anymore..
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #168 on: May 29, 2017, 07:24:21 pm »

Thing is, that the Imperial Family often paid for the educations of their servant's children and it ended because so many wanted to be doctors and engineers! I did read that working for the Romanovs was far better than working for the French aristocrats and royals. I do think that a lot of Russian nobles also rescued their servants during the revolution, taking them along and helping them find new work if it wasn't possible to hire them themselves.
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« Reply #169 on: May 29, 2017, 08:14:15 pm »

^ Interesting, never knew that! So obviously then the staff saw the family as their extended family in a way. Give sth and you'll get sth back..
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« Reply #170 on: May 29, 2017, 10:46:00 pm »

despite what happened later on, the Romanovs and Russian rulers were doing all they could with what they had. Nicholas and the rest of the aristocracy were not educated or trained or equipped to guide the country and I am certain that if Alexandra had not gotten so much influence, the Duma would have been formed more quickly and under better circumstances. Then Nicholas would have been a very happy representative monarch and doing regular appearances. No matter what, it is a textbook case on why consorts should never be allowed to meddle in affairs of state. As anti-feminist as it sounds, Alexandra should have been the leader of society and should have worried more about the nursery rather than the government affairs. A lot of people think that she was the one who was the driving force behind the preservation of the autocracy and she apparently did not think she needed to maintain popular affection of the people.
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« Reply #171 on: May 29, 2017, 11:26:59 pm »

^ "she was the one who was the driving force behind the preservation of the autocracy and she apparently did not think she needed to maintain popular affection of the people." Just shows how dangerous it is to be detached from the people and ignore them and disrespect the people. Even today. If only certain "royals" could get that in their thick heads...
I've forgotten quite a bit what I read on them over the years, but I agree, the tsarina had her role in the destruction of the imperial court & family, doing her own thing and not giving a care about what happened outside the palace walls, ignoring all warnings and advice to change so that the mood of the people would be turnt, but alas..

I do wonder what would have become of the girls had they lived (esp if the family had remained on the throne), because it was insanely difficult for them to find "suitable" husbands, as they were extremely constricted by rules of the court and what rank was considered "appropriate" for a husband of a (imperial) grand duchess (unless they would just throw it all away and become commoners, but the court would have been left quite empty then imo).
I also wonder if Alexei would have made it to adulthood and how long they could have handled his haemophila without today's medicine..
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Rosella
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« Reply #172 on: May 30, 2017, 12:10:04 am »

^ When Queen Victoria, Alexandra's grandmother suggested that she show herself more to the people, Alexandra replied haughtily 'Here, it is not necessary to maintain popularity." (The Tsar's image in Russia was of course also very much tied to the Orthodox Church, and to the perception of him as the 'Little Father' of his people.) He was a weak man and ruler, however, and very much under his stiff and shy wife's thumb. They were both absolute disasters as far as the future direction of Russia went.

If the girls had lived and the Romanovs had remained on the throne is an intriguing but quite unlikely concept, isn't it? The four were deeply attached to their homeland and I've just got a feeling that at least two of them would be matched to a distant cousin of sufficient status among the innumerable branches of the extended Romanov family. I think Germany would be out as a source as the Kaiser was unpopular with Alexandra, but there might have been a Prince in Greece or the Balkan monarchies for one of the younger girls. Perhaps an English prince like Bertie Duke of York.

Sadly I can't see Alexei living to a great age. He'd already survived several traumatic episodes of haemophilia in childhood. He might have survived his teens, into his early twenties, but beyond that....
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #173 on: May 30, 2017, 01:11:56 am »

If Alexei had been like his maternal granduncle, Prince Leopold The Duke of Albany, and be able to marry a wonderful Princess and father a few children to secure the succession to the throne.
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« Reply #174 on: May 30, 2017, 07:52:39 pm »

^^ Wow, Alex was really up herself..
I imagine a similar scenario. I've never wondered what other countries would be like if the class system were still going, just the Russians (and that only popped into my head last night), because court restrictions were unkind towards the young gand duchesses and because Alexei was so fragile. Maybe they'd ultimately have changed some rules so the girls would have had it easier to marry, but a foreign prince was a great possibility I guess. I think Alexei might have made it into his 20s, but beyond that...
^ If Alexei had made it to his 20s (likely as maximum as Rosella & I suspect), then he'd have to marry very young and have (male) heirs.. They were on quite shaky ground, if they wanted their direct line to survive and ascend..
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #175 on: May 30, 2017, 09:59:45 pm »

I do wonder what would have become of the girls had they lived (esp if the family had remained on the throne), because it was insanely difficult for them to find "suitable" husbands, as they were extremely constricted by rules of the court and what rank was considered "appropriate" for a husband of a (imperial) grand duchess (unless they would just throw it all away and become commoners, but the court would have been left quite empty then imo).

Thing is, that Alexei was once photographed with the adorable Princess Illena of Romania and for a husband, there was a chance that Olga would become Queen Consort, but the girls cleverly decided to get a tan and disgusted the Romanian court as a result. Olga allegedly wanted to marry a Russian and said very firmly that she was a Russian and would marry a Russian. Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovichi (a rotten family to the core) wanted Olga to marry his son Boris, but thankfully Alexandra refused outright. The Vladimir family was a fast set and Alexandra didn't want her daughter dragged into that. I bet Olga would have gladly married a commoner if she had found the right one and I think it would have unsettled some, but Nicholas would have fought for his daughter's happiness. There were dozens of soldiers and supposedly Lord Mountbatten was besotted with Marie. During that time the four were considered the most dazzling matrimonial prospects in the world.

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I also wonder if Alexei would have made it to adulthood and
how long they could have handled his haemophila without today's medicine..

Supposedly Rasputin said that if Alexei made it to his seventeenth birthday that he would no longer be plagued by it. In my view Rasputin was a demon possessed witch who was basically keeping Alexandra in his thrall and not encouraging her to tell the public the truth about the disease. One author stated that it would have added fresh pressures, but it would have helped the public understand and Russians do adore children and would have sympathized.

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^ "she was the one who was the driving force behind the preservation of the autocracy and she apparently did not think she needed to maintain popular affection of the people." Just shows how dangerous it is to be detached from the people and ignore them and disrespect the people. Even today. If only certain "royals" could get that in their thick heads...

Alexandra couldn't handle the transition to the grandeur of the Imperial court; billions worth of land holdings that were loaded with oil and gold while the Byzantine religious rituals were in fact among the many factors that Alexandra became so grand. Throw in the deference of the peasants and it made her BEYOND arrogant. I do think she was also unable to handle the fact that she was supposed to lead society.
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« Reply #176 on: June 02, 2017, 01:58:27 am »

No proof that Lenin ordered the murder of Nicholas II
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8264321/No-proof-Lenin-ordered-last-Tsars-murder.html
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« Reply #177 on: June 03, 2017, 01:59:14 am »

George V left the entire family in the lurch; the government wanted to give them asylum, but the king intervened and it was withdrawn. One of the most selfish acts of the fledgling "Windsor" dynasty and frankly I sincerely believe that the House of Windsor has been cursed ever since.
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« Reply #178 on: June 03, 2017, 10:00:58 am »

I think so too. Not saving the royal family changes the course of history and opened the door for genosides worldwide.
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« Reply #179 on: June 03, 2017, 04:25:09 pm »

It was.

According to the author Greg King, it started the aspect of the state arbitrarily deciding if whether or not someone lives or dies. Even the photos taken of the Grand Duchesses eerily presage the photos taken of Holocaust victims right before their murders. Not even the pretext of a trial.

I wonder how different things would be if the Romanovs had been taken in, given refuge.
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