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Author Topic: Emperor Francis Joseph I and Empress Elisabeth of Austria  (Read 3958 times)
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Fernanda Nunes
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« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2018, 06:09:04 pm »

I do not know the true story of them, I'm just in love with the movie .... But from the little I know Sissi loved Francis immensely, surely everything may have been scary for her at first, but if she had his love, this may have made it easier .... KF The person does not choose who to love, if this were possible life would be easier, then we must have to adapt as much as you can and knees on the floor to be a good wife or a good husband .... Look at the story of Ines de Castro ... even after being killed, she was crowned Queen, size his love for her ... feelings are not always rational, if it were rational would not bring us tears somentimes ..  flower
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HRHOlya
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« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2018, 07:28:18 pm »

^ In real life she didn't love him immensely. She hated the whole court and fled all the time, travelling all over the Europe mostly and building pleasure palaces in Austria and Greece, maybe even Hungary, spending crazy amounts of money. She had mental problems as well, psychosomatic symptoms which made life in Vienna/ at court unbearable and she always felt healthy when she was away, the further away she was, the better she felt. On top of that her severe anorexia, obsessive work-outs and crazily deep set vanity.

She also had very quickly into the marriage her own bedroom and made FJ beg outside her doors to let her in (which is kinda crazy, because all the servants saw that), but very often he was refused. So she arranged for mistresses for him and chose them for him as well.
Apparently their first marital night (some days after the marriage!) was somewhat scarring for her.

Actually I'd find it riveting if she were alive and would sit down with a psychologist, to hear where all that came from and what the root problems were of her state of mind...
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Fernanda Nunes
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2018, 01:47:11 am »

I was not aware of the real story, I was only aware of the film, thank you HR for explaining to me hug
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Rosella
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2018, 02:21:05 am »

Sisi always blamed a lot of her feelings on being engaged at the age of 15 and marriage at 16, before she really understood what any of it meant. Of course having her older children taken away shortly after birth by her domineering mother in law didn't help with mother-child bonds. Elizabeth had many issues, but then, mental troubles proliferated in the Wittelsbach family. Many of them, including her father, who liked roaming about the countryside for days, sometimes joining groups of Romanies, were regarded as eccentric. 'Mad' King Ludwig of Bavaria was a first cousin and Otto, his brother and heir, had been kept in confinement for years.
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HRHOlya
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« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2018, 12:20:20 pm »

^^ For those aware of only the film, the reality of their lives can be pretty shocking. It was for me very much so, only I was a young teen so it was even more shocking to find out than when you're an adult..

^ Indeed. Very true. Though considering that Sisi had psycosomatic symptoms in relation to Vienna, I think it's similar to people who have a belly ache before going to school: I think court life, her m-i-l, having her kids taken away, having to parade (walk) in front of strangers in the palace gardens to show off her pregnancy and her corset tightened so the belly shows, the shock of being told what husband and wife do just before the wedding and then having to do it (she was just a child basically and the night and morning after were humiliating to her and not enjoyable, and she was mentally unprepared anyway for marriage, not expecting it at all, having to leave home so young and then be in such a confined setting over night) and all these other things she had to put up with in court life (having basically no autonomy and no power to decide anything at all); and all that then manifesting as coping mechanism  in crazy vanity (workouts, beauty treatments, anorexia).

I also sometimes wonder in how far her family was really mentally ill, and in how far it were just eccentricities people labelled as mental instability because they behaved atypically (also Sisi's father's infatuation with the circus).
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2018, 01:18:44 am »

I wonder how well Elisabeth got along with Archduchess Sophie before Sophie became her mother-in-law? Sophie was actually her aunt. Sophie was a sister to Elisabeth's mother.
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2018, 01:48:58 am »

I think Sophie might have not taken her into consideration; I think Sissi was a nonentity to her and Helene was wanted by Sophie as Consort.

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« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2018, 01:50:49 am »

Yes, she was her aunt. I don't think Sophie knew Sisi very well, however. Elizabeth was fifteen and in the schoolroom and Sophie wasn't constantly visiting Bavaria. She may well have thought the girl was young and pliable and would grow into the role of Empress. She praised her sweet nature and good looks at the time of the engagement.
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HRHOlya
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« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2018, 09:19:00 am »

^^ & ^ My impression as well.
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2018, 01:14:22 am »

Would it have been beneficial if Archduchess Sophie had known Elisabeth a lot more?
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« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2018, 01:17:08 am »

Yes, she was her aunt. I don't think Sophie knew Sisi very well, however. Elizabeth was fifteen and in the schoolroom and Sophie wasn't constantly visiting Bavaria. She may well have thought the girl was young and pliable and would grow into the role of Empress. She praised her sweet nature and good looks at the time of the engagement.

Just like everyone did with Princess Diana; they thought the same and it ended up being a horrendous mess.
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« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2018, 09:44:04 pm »

^^ I doubt it, Sophie had her principles & ideas and wouldn't ever stray from that (i.e. what an empress should be like, her duties (i.e. birth as many kids as possible) and basically held up empress Maria Theresa as saint and the one woman every Austrian empress should model herself after, incl Sisi) and she liked to "rule" the court via her son, one of the cases where a mother-in-law can't entirely accept that the son has "another main woman" (wife) who is his partner and refuses to take a step back.
Sisi was too young and surely needed guiding hands - esp her m-i-l, who better as teacher than the woman who was previously in her role as consort?, but Sophie didn't want to teach, she wanted to dictate and strictly adhere to court rules (e.g. empresses wearing shoes only once and then passing them on to the servants, such a waste and discomfort - there's nothing better & comfy than worn-in shoes, but Sisi managed to changed that early-ish).

^ Good comparison.
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Kuei Fei
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« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2018, 10:26:34 pm »

At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, I think Sophie was right to run the household and make sure that Sissi was going to behave and be a good consort. It isn't about the person, but about the nation and Sissi made the mistake of thinking that being a happy person and being a good empress would be incompatible. Back then, the matriarchs of the families held power mainly because of the fact that they were known to have followed the rules, had obeyed the dictates of their own in-laws, and were the stabilizing influence in the life of their sons who would eventually become heads of their own households. In order to lead, all good leaders first learn to obey. It isn't about 'finding oneself,' but accepting things the way they are, the reality of it, and adapting and then eventually introducing change within the infrastructure. Change, healthy change restructures, it does not tear it down and then rebuild from nothing. It's about boundaries and maturing at an earlier age than most and hopefully becoming wiser than most others.

I think Sophie was someone who had been through much of the same and wanted Sissi to become a good empress for her son and do her utmost to serve the nation. Maria Theresa was a brilliant empress and served her nation untiringly and she is a good example of a woman in a powerful position. It's hard for us modern women to comprehend, but really, that is how women were raised and just had to be in order to make their way in the world.
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FrederickLouis
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« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2018, 01:29:33 am »

Kuei Fei, That was a splendid description of Archduchess Sophie running the household.
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« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2018, 01:15:18 am »

Empress Elisabeth was permitted to mingle with only a few families and she had almost no friends.
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