Continental Aristocracy

[Alexandrine]

^Though watching that family being a royal family would be hilarious. There are so many characters among them and their hanger ons... 

[Kuei Fei]

I wonder just how interesting things would have been if in fact Charles had married the Duchess of Alba; one of the top aristocrats with the future King of England?

^ totally agree - and aren't the polls now running in favor of continued Union?  So the whole discussion is moot.

Thing is, that polls can be misleading depending on the question asked.

[cate1949]

^wouldn't she have been 1) a bit older for him 2)Catholic at a time when  it was still prohibited to marry a Catholic 3) a total um - socially active woman - um hum -

[Kuei Fei]

Well he has married Camilla and therefore is able to not really hold that against the Duchess. 

[Alexandrine]

Cayetana was born the same age as his mother!

[Snokitty]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-reintroduces-knight-and-dame-honours-for-australians-20140325-35fzo.html

The Abbott government will reintroduce the honour of knights and dames of the Order of Australia to celebrate pre-eminent Australians such as outgoing Governor-General Quentin Bryce.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced on Tuesday afternoon that up to four knights or dames will be appointed in any year.

The first dame under the changes will be the outgoing Governor-General Quentin Bryce and the first knight will be incoming Governor-General Peter Cosgrove. All future governors-general will be appointed a Knight or a Dame.
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Mr Abbott said the honour would be extended to Australians of "extraordinary and pre-eminent achievement and merit".

The categories of Knight and Dame of the Order of Australia were created by the Queen, on advice from the Fraser government, in 1976 and were discontinued under advice from the Hawke government in 1986.

Knights and dames will be approved by the Queen on the recommendation of the prime minister. The chair of the Order of Australia Council will be consulted on any such recommendation.

Mr Abbott said: "My intention is that this new award will go to those who have accepted public office rather than sought it and who can never, by virtue of that office, ever entirely return to private life."

Mr Abbott said he expected these people to include governors-general, state governors, chiefs of defence forces and chief justices rather than politicians.

He described the change as an "important grace note in our national life".

[Alexandrine]

The Duchess of Alba is in the ICU and it looks not good.

[Alexandrine]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2839541/Spanish-aristocracy-rush-Duchess-Alba-88-remains-condition-hospital-pneumonia.html

She is probably dying.

[Kuei Fei]

This is horrible.

That woman is considered a treasure among Spaniards and an international social icon.

Charles II converted to Catholicism on his deathbed - LOL - had his fun first

Given that RC's and CoE's say exactly the same creed and have roughly the same liturgies (high Church at least) and that most people do not even go to church anymore it all seems absurd to us now - but back in the day - it had a lot to do with money and new wealth.  A lot of the RC's holdings had been given to the "new" aristocracy - so they feared a Catholic monarch might restore all that had been looted back to the Church.  Also - a lot of the "old" nobility had either died, been hung or had been deprived of their lands and there was now a new  aristocracy who feared the emergence of the old guys if the Monarch was RC - so it had little to do with religion and a lot to do with power and wealth as usual.  Among though the regular people the old" ways did not die out so fast so they had to use a lot of anti catholic propaganda to kill the old religion among the regular people - hence the resulting prejudices etc..

The Percy's play an interesting role in all this - three Percy's either died in battle or were beheaded because they led revolts against Henry 8 and Lizzie I - a Percy was actually beatified which is the last step before being declared a saint (there is an RC church in Northumberland dedicated to him) and the Percy's remained RC until the 1700's - rather a long time for such an important family to hold on.  They finally convert because the economic and social isolation becomes threatening to them.  The Dukes of Norfolk - who are the oldest peerage and the highest ranked of the nobility - are still Catholic - given the penalties against being Catholic it is very amazing they survived.

There are some very touching stories about recuse Catholics in the North and how they were protected by their neighbors for centuries - kind of one of those things that stands out in the face of human stupidity - we sometimes do the right and kind thing.

I rather doubt the Scots taking a RC monarch - in the 1830's when Catholic emancipation occurred - it was the Scots who were most opposed to it - actual rioting occurred in protest.
But there is a great nostalgia for their Stuart monarchs so who knows.

Amazing how a simple refusal of an immediate annulment from Katherine of Aragon resulted in Henry VIII doing so many destructive things. First the break with Rome, the blasphemous declaration of himself as Head of the Church, then the destruction of the monasteries and convents and then the persecution of Catholics.

[beline]

Her fourth son Don Fernando, Marquess of San Vicente del Barco, announced her mother will be transferred to her home the Palacio de Duenas in the next hours. The Duchess is still seriously ill.

http://www.hola.com/actualidad/2014111875111/duquesa-alba-hijos/1/

Coming back home...for her last moments it seems.

[Alexandrine]

A treasure.... not really.

[Alexandrine]

She's already been transferred to her home, but some unconfirmed reports say she's died.

[Countess of Holland]

This is horrible.

That woman is considered a treasure among Spaniards and an international social icon.

Charles II converted to Catholicism on his deathbed - LOL - had his fun first

Given that RC's and CoE's say exactly the same creed and have roughly the same liturgies (high Church at least) and that most people do not even go to church anymore it all seems absurd to us now - but back in the day - it had a lot to do with money and new wealth.  A lot of the RC's holdings had been given to the "new" aristocracy - so they feared a Catholic monarch might restore all that had been looted back to the Church.  Also - a lot of the "old" nobility had either died, been hung or had been deprived of their lands and there was now a new  aristocracy who feared the emergence of the old guys if the Monarch was RC - so it had little to do with religion and a lot to do with power and wealth as usual.  Among though the regular people the old" ways did not die out so fast so they had to use a lot of anti catholic propaganda to kill the old religion among the regular people - hence the resulting prejudices etc..

The Percy's play an interesting role in all this - three Percy's either died in battle or were beheaded because they led revolts against Henry 8 and Lizzie I - a Percy was actually beatified which is the last step before being declared a saint (there is an RC church in Northumberland dedicated to him) and the Percy's remained RC until the 1700's - rather a long time for such an important family to hold on.  They finally convert because the economic and social isolation becomes threatening to them.  The Dukes of Norfolk - who are the oldest peerage and the highest ranked of the nobility - are still Catholic - given the penalties against being Catholic it is very amazing they survived.

There are some very touching stories about recuse Catholics in the North and how they were protected by their neighbors for centuries - kind of one of those things that stands out in the face of human stupidity - we sometimes do the right and kind thing.

I rather doubt the Scots taking a RC monarch - in the 1830's when Catholic emancipation occurred - it was the Scots who were most opposed to it - actual rioting occurred in protest.
But there is a great nostalgia for their Stuart monarchs so who knows.

Amazing how a simple refusal of an immediate annulment from Katherine of Aragon resulted in Henry VIII doing so many destructive things. First the break with Rome, the blasphemous declaration of himself as Head of the Church, then the destruction of the monasteries and convents and then the persecution of Catholics.

The Catholics didn't exactly acted better in regards to the protestants (and Jews) though. The Inquisition, the attempts to squash resistance in protestant Netherlands (like taking the city of Naarden, locking everyone up at City Hall and eventually killing all men, women and children of the city), the Night of St. Bartholomew (when at least two of my ancestors were killed on the orders of the Catholic Queen Catherina de' Medici), the revoking of the Edict of Nantes, letting to thousands of French protestants having to either convert or be killed.

Fact is, the moment religion is involved, bad things happen. John Lennon had a good point in his song 'Imagine'.

[Kuei Fei]

Amen and Amen.

Thing is, that I still say Henry VIII's craziness changed England from a stable oasis into just as filled with religious turmoil as everywhere else.

As for the Duchess, I will kind of miss hearing about her activities. She's someone who will be missed.

[beline]

The confessor of the Duchess of Alba just arrived at her home.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/gente/realeza/20141119/54420015268/confesor-duquesa-alba-palacio-duenas.html

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lavanguardia.com%2Fgente%2Frealeza%2F20141119%2F54420015268%2Fconfesor-duquesa-alba-palacio-duenas.html&edit-text=

[Alexandrine]

she's died

[Kuei Fei]

Rest In Peace Duchess. Death of a legend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Co-eKv5cuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GK_CLETm0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUfpH9pH2ew

This is sad; she shared toys as a child with Queen Elizabeth (when HM was a child).

[beline]

Requiescat in Pace.

[Fly on the wall]

Spanish aristocracy gather and well-wishers line the streets to mourn the loss of flamboyant billionaire the Duchess of Alba, who died at her home today aged 88 after battling pneumonia

Friends, relatives and well-wishers today paid their respects to Spain's Duchess of Alba, who died aged 88 after developing pneumonia.

Worth an estimated £2.2billion, she was one of Europe's wealthiest aristocrats. A spokeswoman said she died earlier today at her Seville residence, Duenas Palace.

Her coffin was driven from there past hundreds of tearful well-wishers to the Town Hall, where friends and family waited.

Once unloaded they followed it inside and surrounded it in quiet contemplation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2842130/Spains-Duchess-Alba-Europes-richest-aristocrats-dies.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

[Fly on the wall]

Descendants of notorious 19th Century writer the Marquis de Sade reclaim his title after 200 years of disowning novelist


Two centuries after his death, the descendants of the notorious Marquis de Sade have finally embraced their once-reviled relative.

The French aristocrat scandalised his contemporaries with his erotic works which saw him locked in prisons and an insane asylum for 32 years.

Now, the eldest member of the dynasty, Elzear de Sade, has said the family are no longer ashamed of their controversial ancestor and has reclaimed the title of marquis which has not been used since his 1814.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2881705/Descendants-notorious-19th-Century-writer-Marquis-Sade-reclaim-title-200-years-disowning-novelist.html