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Author Topic: Continental Aristocracy  (Read 37378 times)
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Alexandrine
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« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2013, 07:14:13 pm »

Anyone has been to Villa Borghese? It was her husband's house and you can see the Canova sculpture of her as Venus. It's one of my favourite places I've ever visited.

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« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2013, 07:16:19 pm »

I don't know a lot about the Bonaparte's, where is the Villa?
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« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2013, 07:23:18 pm »

It wasn't Bonaparte's but from her husband's family Borghese. It's in Rome

http://www.galleriaborghese.it/borghese/en/evilla.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galleria_Borghese

You can see lots of Bernini's sculptures and lots of pictures from famous painters.

This is Pauline as Venus http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3525/3956258667_95380b2762_z.jpg?zz=1 the whole room is dedicated to her as the pictures in the walls are about Paris judgement.

I'm also not very knowledgeable about the Bonaparte's, that part of history makes me sad because of the murdering of the french RF. 
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« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2013, 07:28:19 pm »

Oh what an interesting family.

I would love to visit the Palace/ villa.
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« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2013, 07:52:53 pm »

From the Bonaparte's Josephine the first wife of Napoleon and Pauline are the most interesting as they were the it girls of their time.

However, as Napoleon's siblings ended up being the monarchs of the countries he conquered all of them led interesting lifes. But I still cannot forgive that due to the war we lost so many treasures especially the crown jewels  bye , they still say that they are hidden in the royal palace in Madrid but I doubt it. The arnolfini portrait for example was in Spain and has ended up in the National Gallery.  bored3

Another Napoleon story I found interesting is that in Schonbrun, the summer palace of the Hapsburg, you can see his son's room. And if you visit the national treasure museum even his cradle which is very similar's to the Swedish cradle we saw in Estelle christening.
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« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 04:40:46 pm »

http://www.listal.com/list/beautiful-queens-and-princesses

I did not know quite where to put this thread. I was looking up Princess Lalla Salma of Morocco after seeing her photograph at the Abdication ceremony. She really is quite beautiful. I then found she featured on the list above. There is a name that is not on the list, guess who? 
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« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2014, 01:14:47 am »

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/460698/House-of-Stuart-s-Duchess-of-Alba-could-be-next-Queen-of-Scotland-after-independence-vote
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A YES Vote in September’s referendum on independence for Scotland could reawaken centuries old claims to the Scottish crown from members of the House of Stuart.

And an 87-year-old billionaire from Spain might argue she has the strongest claim.

For the Duchess of Alba is said to be one of two main contenders from the Stuart dynasty, whose Scottish monarchs transformed the country during their time in power.

While First Minister Alex Salmond insists Queen Elizabeth II would remain as head of state after a Yes vote, others are not so sure.

Some Scots look back fondly in the history books to their Stuart kings, the first of whom was Robert II in 1371.

By the 17th century, they ruled all of England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland.
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« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2014, 01:28:10 am »

I wonder how this might turn out for the Spencers; they are kin to the Stuarts and Diana is the one that introduced the Stuart line into the BRF; it might elevate the Spencers significantly if the House of Stuart were asked to return and I wonder how much this will change the social scene in London. A Stuart monarch back on an independent Scottish throne and all the Windsors kicked back to England once and for all. It would be fascinating to see a Stuart monarch return to a newly independent Scotland.
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« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2014, 01:36:58 am »

KF - technically - the Windsors former Mountbatten former Saxe Gotha former Hanoverians are descendents of the Stuarts through Sophia the elect of Hanover.  So a Stuart King or Queen in Scotland would not have any elevating effect on the Spencers - assuming any one would actually care.

LOL - none of the surviving Stuarts - who actually have a stronger claim to the Brit throne than the Windsors - want anything to do with this.  Too many dead Stuarts who tried to get the throne back.  And then there is that little beheading of a Stuart King incident - LOL - would think that would cure one of desiring a throne.  Not to mention the weather in Scotland versus the weather in Spain - which would you rather live in?  Just joking Scottish people! 
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« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2014, 02:35:45 am »

Yet, if the Scots break away, then realistically the Scots could bring back the Stuarts.

I've read a biography about Mary Queen of Scots by Stefan Zweig and it describes the fractious Scots nobility and described the Scots crown as a crown of thorns. Yet, times have changed and Scotland would likely enjoy a huge resurgence of nationalism and would likely bring an independent Sovereign back, one not connected to the House of Windsor.

The Windsors have very little Scottish lineage, it's been diluted considerably, via Danish and German wives and the RF really doesn't do much in Scotland (outside of Balmoral).

HM must be horrendously upset about all this. First Scotland will break away, then likely set up a monarch of their own and end up with a new RF. It would make HM puke, unless the RF managed to set up some kind of marriage match. Yet, if nothing happens, like the Duchess of Alba taking over, HM would puke out of sheer humilaition.

Could someone please break this thread so I can post this and other stuff: http://royalgossip.forumprofi.de/index.php/topic,6609.0.html
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« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2014, 02:49:41 am »

I admit it is an intriguing idea - but somehow I don't see the Scots running off and getting themselves an aged Spanish grandee as their new monarch. 
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« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2014, 11:39:55 pm »

Could this be the next Queen of Scotland? As independence looms, will Stuart crown return?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/460698/House-of-Stuart-s-Duchess-of-Alba-could-be-next-Queen-of-Scotland-after-independence-vote
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« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2014, 01:21:39 am »

This is becoming more and more exciting; first Scottish independence and now the return of the House of Stuart.
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« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2014, 01:44:17 am »

you know that when Anne the last real Stuart died - they had to go to the 50th in line for the throne to find a Stuart who wasn't a Catholic - hence George I and the beginning of the Saxe -Gotha - Mountbatten-Windsor clan- my guess is this Duchess of Alba is also a Catholic - most of the Stuart are and were. 
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« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2014, 02:17:21 am »


Yes, she is a Catholic. She has a number of heirs, the first of which is, I believe divorced.  The Duchess is around the same age as HM.
Her first marriage was in 1946.   flower
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« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2014, 04:39:33 am »

you know that when Anne the last real Stuart died - they had to go to the 50th in line for the throne to find a Stuart who wasn't a Catholic - hence George I and the beginning of the Saxe -Gotha - Mountbatten-Windsor clan- my guess is this Duchess of Alba is also a Catholic - most of the Stuart are and were.

Henry VIII really made a huge amount of destruction towards the succession with his insane "Church of England" and the resulting policies that came from it. Right now the Windsors likely wouldn't be on the throne if not for the (understandable) bias against Catholicism. Charles II was likely secretly devoutly Catholic, but he wasn't a tyrant about it.

you know that when Anne the last real Stuart died - they had to go to the 50th in line for the throne to find a Stuart who wasn't a Catholic - hence George I and the beginning of the Saxe -Gotha - Mountbatten-Windsor clan- my guess is this Duchess of Alba is also a Catholic - most of the Stuart are and were.

Thankfully Catholics are not as militant these days as they used to be; no more 'wars of religion.' A Catholic would be refreshing and create a tremendous sentimental resurgence.
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« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2014, 04:56:29 am »

Charles II converted to Catholicism on his deathbed - LOL - had his fun first

Given that RC's and CoE's say exactly the same creed and have roughly the same liturgies (high Church at least) and that most people do not even go to church anymore it all seems absurd to us now - but back in the day - it had a lot to do with money and new wealth.  A lot of the RC's holdings had been given to the "new" aristocracy - so they feared a Catholic monarch might restore all that had been looted back to the Church.  Also - a lot of the "old" nobility had either died, been hung or had been deprived of their lands and there was now a new  aristocracy who feared the emergence of the old guys if the Monarch was RC - so it had little to do with religion and a lot to do with power and wealth as usual.  Among though the regular people the old" ways did not die out so fast so they had to use a lot of anti catholic propaganda to kill the old religion among the regular people - hence the resulting prejudices etc..

The Percy's play an interesting role in all this - three Percy's either died in battle or were beheaded because they led revolts against Henry 8 and Lizzie I - a Percy was actually beatified which is the last step before being declared a saint (there is an RC church in Northumberland dedicated to him) and the Percy's remained RC until the 1700's - rather a long time for such an important family to hold on.  They finally convert because the economic and social isolation becomes threatening to them.  The Dukes of Norfolk - who are the oldest peerage and the highest ranked of the nobility - are still Catholic - given the penalties against being Catholic it is very amazing they survived.

There are some very touching stories about recuse Catholics in the North and how they were protected by their neighbors for centuries - kind of one of those things that stands out in the face of human stupidity - we sometimes do the right and kind thing.

I rather doubt the Scots taking a RC monarch - in the 1830's when Catholic emancipation occurred - it was the Scots who were most opposed to it - actual rioting occurred in protest.
But there is a great nostalgia for their Stuart monarchs so who knows.
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« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2014, 12:55:40 pm »

The Duchess of Alba descends of an illegal son of King James II. In royal history, this means he was not a member of the House of Stuart and nor are his descendants. If you want to abide by royal rules, you have to abide by all rules; illegal off-spring is not part of the Royal House.

Furthermore, at this moment, Scotland has a rule that its monarch has to be of the protestant faith and despite her far-from-Catholic-life, the Duchess of Alba (she is not the Duchess of Berwick, under British/ Scottish rule, she, as a woman can not inherit the Scottish titles/ peerages from her father), is still Catholic.

As for Scottish blood, remember the Queen-Mother, she is of Scottish birth and her family has long ties with Scotland, all the way back to Sir John Glamis who was born around 1340 and who was married to Lady Jean Stewart, daughter of King Robert II of Scotland.

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« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2014, 08:20:20 pm »

The Duchess of Alba as queen of anything would be a complete joke. She has lead a completely dissolute life while being a dictator to her children. She is also probably close to be a complete invalid right now.
 
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« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2014, 08:59:47 pm »

^ totally agree - and aren't the polls now running in favor of continued Union?  So the whole discussion is moot.

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