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Author Topic: The Commonwealth Relationship With The British Monarchy  (Read 25641 times)
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« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2016, 01:01:36 am »

For the BRF I think there will be a BC/AD situation so that "after the Queen" will see an entirely different mindset.  A lot of what has stayed solid has been because of the Queen, and her respected reputation, alone.

As for the Canadians, and as stated elsewhere, because I live near the Canadian border and work with tons and know even more (late husband hockey coach), I've yet to met someone who isn't on track to make changes "once the Queen is gone".  They seen to have very little, if any, respect for the upcoming batch of royals.

There was this tidbit about the provinces as well:

Quote
Finally, in any discussion with nay-sayers, the coup-de-grace meant to shut down any rational debate about a republic:

"It's impossible to do because the constitution requires unanimous approval by all the provinces and parliament."

That's a tough one, if it were true. Section 41(a) of the Constitution actually refers to amendments to "the office of the Queen," not the institution of the monarchy. So it's entirely possible to keep "the office of the Queen" intact, while allowing the government or a referendum to decide if an elected Canadian can be the head of state.


The Monarchy, and to just pay homage to somebody because of their birth, is absurd in this day of global awareness.  HM has done a great job and all of that but it's a matter of dignity within ones own country now, I keep hearing.  It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Commonwealth nations when that day comes and everybody's faced with Charles and Camilla.
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« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2016, 06:58:09 am »

In spite of this amendment each assembly of each province of Canada as well as the Federal House of Commons would still have to vote on this extraordinarily important event. What if, as is probable, Quebec voted for 'amendments to the Office of Queen' and Alberta and British Columbia's assemblies voted for the status quo? That would leave the Queen as Queen of those provinces and not of Quebec? I'm sure Quebec would be happy. I'm not so sure about the rest of Canada's politicians!

 The main parties in Canada do not have a policy on republicanism. That is especially true of the Liberals and is even true of the leftist parties. The House of Commons and the Senate could well vote 'No' leaving any provinces who did 'adjust' in a very awkward position. One of the first things the reasonably new Canadian PM Justin Trudeau did was to go and see the Queen.

It's very easy to dismiss the monarchy. I can well remember the Australian referendum of 1999. Many politicians, journalists, celebrities, the chattering classes, were all for a republic. In the end, not one state of the Australian Commonwealth had people voting  in favour, not one, never mind a majority of states and yes I knew and know many republicans also. 

We shall see, but voters may very well surprise and confound republicans, even in the 21st century.

The fate of the Commonwealth of nations isn't tied in with the British Monarchy. The Queen heads it now and Charles may in the future, but it's a symbolic power. The Commonwealth Secretary General and his office actually administers the organisation. The monarchy in Britain could in theory crash and burn in the future (though it's extremely unlikely it will) but the Commonwealth of Nations will go on.
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« Reply #162 on: January 26, 2016, 03:53:34 pm »

HM has done a great job and all of that

But has the Queen done a good job? Yes, she has been dedicated to her 'political' role, but on that other terrain, the preparation for the future, she has done a terrible job.

A King or Queen needs to take into account not just the now, but also what happens and can happen in the future in respect to the family. The issue of heritage, the link between past-present-future is setting a monarchy apart from a republic.

And in this field, the Queen has dropped the ball in a massive way. She has failed to prepare her younger children for a proper and relevant life outside the monarchy and that is a result of a failure to recognize the changing times. She also has failed to get her heir back in line; during the whole decline of the Wales' marriage, the Queen was absent. She allowed her son and his pr-team to smear Diana and as a result degrade the RF with their mud-slinging.
And it didn't just damage Charles, is also damaged William and Harry, although in another way.

When the whole Wales-disaster was over, with the sad demise of Diana, she allowed Charles to start a pr-campaign in support of Camilla. Again, damaging William and Harry.
She allowed the marriage between Charles and Camilla to take place, so that the future Head of the CoE is now married to a divorced woman and not married for the church.

And let's not even start about the Middleton-drama. As Queen, as Head of her Family who has a duty to secure her heritage and that of her family, she should have put her foot down. Instead she allowed it to happen and I am convinced that in a couple of years, historians will look on that decision as the decision that ended the British monarchy. And that is her legacy because it happened on her watch.
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« Reply #163 on: January 26, 2016, 03:55:57 pm »

^ Well said - ITA with your post
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« Reply #164 on: January 26, 2016, 04:45:39 pm »

^^  Agree, excellent comment and absolutely 100% spot on, totally correct IMO. The british rf have not moved with the times, they might think they have but sadly they are mistaken.  I also think the meddletons will bring about the end of the monarchy.  It has all gone so wrong  -  none of the other married-ins in have such vile and disgusting families, and we would never know who they were, they respect the fact that although their son/daugher married a royal they are not royal themselves, and never will be.  Camzilla, Sophie, Mike Tyndall, cath medd et al -  they are interlopers, royal by marriage but not blood royal  -  big difference.  The meddleton debacle would never have arisen had HM taken it in hand years previously.  I did read somewhere that nobody thought cath medd a threat, she was just a booty call until he met a suitable wife.  Might have been the case had viper ma not been such a vile, greedy, grasping apology for a female.  HM allows the whole debacle to continue, doing nothing about any of the major problems caused by viper ma  -  wondering no doubt how she can get out of it without a consitutional crisis  -  thinking of herself again.  I think many people, in many areas, continue with the monarchy charade out of respect for the length of  HM´s reign, once she goes all h*ll will break loose.  The commonwealth committee might well decide at that point that no, it most certainly does not want chucky on board.

Sadly, this is so true CofH  As Queen, as Head of her Family who has a duty to secure her heritage and that of her family, she should have put her foot down. Instead she allowed it to happen and I am convinced that in a couple of years, historians will look on that decision as the decision that ended the British monarchy. And that is her legacy because it happened on her watch..  What she is frantically pretending does not exist and trying to push under the carpet will be their downfall.  She should address situations and contain them, not turn a blind eye and hope it will all blow over.  She gives in to bill medd and allows him to walk all over her.  She allows juggers to push ot the most ridiculous stories trying to make the lamebridges look good when all it achieves is to make them look worse than they already are  -  and that is difficult, the materials to be worked with is virtually onn-existent with those two.  The continued, consistent lying about the lamebridges to make them look good has lost them so much credibility that few believe anything released these days  -  and that has been extended to the rf in general.  That does not sit well for a future Head of Commonwealth either, I very much doubt, if it still exists, that he would be a candidate.

The Commonwealth will continue, but the way things are starting to look these days the position HM currently has will not be needed  - there won´t be a lot left to preside over once the various countries decide they want their own head of state.  Chucky boy will be incredibly lucky to get the position if it doe still exist, as said, it is not hereditary and chucky has in no way covered himself in glory since the PD debacle either.  The other commonwealth countries might well feel they want a "change of management" so to speak.

As CofH said A King or Queen needs to take into account not just the now, but also what happens and can happen in the future in respect to the family. The issue of heritage, the link between past-present-future is setting a monarchy apart from a republic.  That is not happening here, so if chucky thinks the position as Head of the Commonwealth is a given for him then maybe he needs to think again.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:47:24 pm by gingerboy24 » Logged
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« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2016, 04:46:24 pm »



Yes, excellent C o H
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« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2016, 05:03:27 pm »

Very insightful CofH.  And I agree with what you're saying.  And that's how it truly is but I don't see the rest of the world tapping into the negatives of HM as much as those who really pay attention.  There's a kind of generational respect that she has garnered that, I believe, has kept a lot of bad media and feelings at bay because, when it comes to her job, she has done an exemplary job for a very long time and world leaders hold her in high regard.

Having said that, I don't feel any sense that upcoming royals have the same level of great expectations.  Don't think Charles can pull it off for as long as HM has. 
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« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2016, 06:12:43 pm »

In the field of politics, HM did indeed do a good job. But it is only a part of her job. If I would be good at networking but s*ck at the training of junior staff, the overall evaluation is that I would do poorly because the training of junior staff is an essential part of my job description.

The same applies for the Queen. Part of her job she is doing well, but the other part...not so much.
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« Reply #168 on: March 24, 2016, 09:09:34 am »

New Zealanders has just voted in the referendum about a change of flag to retain the present one with the Union Jack.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/24/new-zealand-votes-to-keep-its-flag-in-referendum
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« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2016, 07:16:03 pm »

Royal rejection: naturalised Canadians recant oath of allegiance to Queen

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/31/naturalized-canadians-recant-oath-to-queen-royal-monarchy
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« Reply #170 on: April 16, 2016, 04:41:32 pm »

Jamaica announces plans to axe the Queen as official Head of State

Jamaica may axe the Queen as their official Head of State in a new proposal.

Governor-General Patrick Allen announced plans to make a constitutional amendment that would replace the Queen with a president on Thursday.

The British monarch is officially the head of state in 15 countries in the Commonwealth, including Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3543228/Jamaica-announces-plans-axe-Queen-official-Head-State-eve-90th-birthday-replace-president.html
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« Reply #171 on: April 16, 2016, 05:02:16 pm »

I think the Commonwealth will get more and more countries opting out.  Seems odd that they are starting to jump ship now with HM getting on in year  -  maybe they can´t bear the though of chucky or bill medd in charge and what a Godawful mess they will make of it all.  Get out now guys, fast, jump from the sinking ship.
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« Reply #172 on: April 16, 2016, 05:27:11 pm »

There certainly doesn't seem to be any thought given to the fact it is ER's 90th soon. The  hits just keep on coming regardless
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« Reply #173 on: April 17, 2016, 01:00:57 am »

When the Queen became Queen she had over 50 realms and now has 16. This is nothing new. This has been an ongoing aspect of her reign - first independence and then the independent nations choosing to become republics - for some it was at the same time while for many others the change was a two step one and Jamaica is only doing what many other nations have done - gained independence and now looking at becoming a republic.

What she has done is see the Commonwealth grow to now include a number of countries that were never even part of the British Empire but are now members of the Commonwealth.

The realms and the Commonwealth are not the same thing. All the realms are automatically members of the Commonwealth and very few countries that have become republics have left the Commonwealth. Some have been suspended at times e.g. Pakistan and Fiji but very few have actually chosen to leave so it must be doing something right for those member nations who are republics, which is the vast majority of those nations.
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« Reply #174 on: April 17, 2016, 05:22:16 am »

The thing is, that the BRF is supposed to be head of the vastest region in the world; that is what made the BRF/Britain the standard setter in the world. HM is seeking it all unravel and yes, she loses the prestige of the Crown when she loses countries formerly under the dominion of the Crown.

Jamaica plans to end Queen's role as Head of State: Monarch receives unpleasant 90th birthday surprise from Caribbean country
    Governor-General Patrick Allen said Her Majesty could be replaced
    'A non-executive President' may be used to open Jamaica's parliament
    The Queen has kept the ceremonial role after Jamaica gained independence from Britain in 1962 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3543821/Jamaica-plans-end-Queen-s-role-Head-State-Monarch-receives-unpleasant-90th-birthday-surprise-Caribbean-country.html#ixzz463PbHyvf

You know, I really wonder how HM feels, seeing herself cast off on a more regular basis. Her Jubilee hype was a flop and many others are unafraid to speak up about her own faults. Not just as a mother, but as a Sovereign. You can tell that when she knows how things will go when she's gone.
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« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2017, 02:40:27 pm »

Baroness Shameless is 'snubbed by the Queen': Monarch said to be staying away from annual reception after a string of scandals at the Commonwealth Office


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4162488/Queen-snub-Baroness-Scotland-s-Commonwealth-Day-party.html#ixzz4WyOVNlb9
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« Reply #176 on: January 27, 2017, 03:37:29 pm »

^ And yet she hasn't kicked KM to the curb yet? Hypocrisy at it's finest... bignono  I'm surprised no one is crying racism on behalf of the Baroness Scotland. Perhaps if she were American or calls the paps and gets her kit off if you will. ... Shocked sly blink
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