Royal Gossip

The British Royal Family *Windsor* => Prince Charles and Camilla => Topic started by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 08:39:43 pm



Title: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 08:39:43 pm
http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2013071013077/kate-middleton-baby-born-william/


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 10, 2013, 08:42:28 pm
^sorry to say but told you  :bored:

They will try unless they see that it is getting a negative reaction which I think will happen if we get photos of Camilla as the doting grandma.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 08:45:16 pm
I see Penny "poison pen" Junor is reissuing her William book to coincide with the royal birth. Nice gift for the baby for a book to come out tearing his or her grandmother to shreds. Junor is gross.

Actually I'm not surprised. I think Camlla is salivating at claiming grandmother hood to Diana's grandbaby. She took most everything else Diana had. She is just plain crude IMO. I can see the photos coming.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 10, 2013, 08:59:11 pm
  Such a vomit inducing article ..  :ick:

  The PR to get this woman accepted is ridiculous.

  No matter how they stack the comment on the DM too ... most people I know can't stand the old cow.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 09:01:50 pm
I can't believe how some go along with this disgusting drivel. That Camilla will be the grandmother and the baby will see her as such. Nauseating.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: True Brit on July 10, 2013, 09:03:59 pm
^ I have every sympathy with your view Sandy and Tatiana but we have to be prepared for what I can only describe as a "blitzkrieg" of relentless PR heading our way.

Personally I think Hello should be burnt on publication - it rots the brain.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 10, 2013, 09:05:31 pm
    The baby will come to know who made his/her grandmother's life a misery and will see grandad for the adulterous toad he is.

     You can fool some of the people some of the time, as we see here once in a while, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

      Truth will out.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 09:07:06 pm
^ I have every sympathy with your view Sandy and Tatiana but we have to be prepared for what I can only describe as a "blitzkrieg" of relentless PR heading our way.

Personally I think Hello should be burnt on publication - it rots the brain.

Junor wrote this vile stuff. She will no doubt be given honors galore when C and C take over. And also disgusting is the quoting of Tom Parker Bowles who shamelessly invokes Sir's name to promote his books and himself.  And Andrew Parker Bowles role as sire is just ignored.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 10, 2013, 09:11:57 pm
^ I have every sympathy with your view Sandy and Tatiana but we have to be prepared for what I can only describe as a "blitzkrieg" of relentless PR heading our way.

Personally I think Hello should be burnt on publication - it rots the brain.

I think I could write a thesis on Hello, after all I have the "honour" to say that it is a spanish product.

It had a charm years ago when only the top appeared in its pages and it was a look into another kind of life. Now it's mostly reality trash. Just today I was thinking if it will survive. The owner died a couple of years ago and if it was bad then now it's horrible!

I cannot wait until we see the christening images and video and who are the godparents. I bet we see Camilla in the centre of all activity.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 10, 2013, 09:13:31 pm
The tab the National Examiner claims that Camilla wants to be the one who officially announces the royal birth and the Queen stopped her. A tab story with a ring of truth IMO.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on July 10, 2013, 09:39:10 pm
Chuck and Camz have a son together with 5 kids, annoy them and leave Damian alone


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: lothwen on July 11, 2013, 04:20:51 am
Well now there is a theory on this very forum that William is not Charles son...a theory that I don't buy into, but some people do.  So according to that theory, Charles isn't the grandfather at all, and Diana was unfaithful from the beginning.   :-  ???


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Cressida on July 11, 2013, 07:57:15 am
They can push Camilla forward as grandmother as much as they like - but we all know what she is. A woman who rode slipshod over another woman's hopes and dreams, took her husband, took her house, took her place in the royal family, took her jewels, and now wants to have her beloved boys and their offspring too.

I will never accept Camilla as a royal, let alone a Princess Consort or Queen. I don't know anyone who likes her or supports her and I think she will face a backlash if she is seen to be doing the whole 'grandma' thing in Diana's place.

On another note, if Camilla and Charles had a son together, he would have been brought up as a Parker-Bowles' child. Yet another wild 'rumour' that doesn't stand up.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 11, 2013, 02:38:47 pm
The Parker Bowles kids have APB's eyes and look like him. But there were still rumors out there. APB as I recall was dismissed by being the granddad of his own grandchildren and when the first PB grandchild was born it was Charles and Camilla's first grandchild. Go figure.

The rumor about Diana cheating from the get go is just plain nasty. I bet it came from Camilla herself or her lackey Penny Poison Pen Junor.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: AnaBolena on July 11, 2013, 07:27:07 pm
I think by law Camilla is the step grandmother of this baby, is she not?

It could also be that Willy and Wasty have included her as such - wanting the baby to have two living grandparents.   Well, that's another way of looking at it.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 11, 2013, 07:38:02 pm
I don't think William is crass enough to "substitute" Camilla for the deceased grandmother. I think he will tell the baby as he or she grows up about Diana, the genuine grandmother. Camilla did not even raise him but married Charles after he and Harry grew up.  I think that Camilla and Charles would be crass enough to promote her as the grandmother and airbrush Diana out. I suspect the baby will spend a lot more time with the MIddletons than he or she will spend with Camilla who has her own grandchildren. She is stepgrandmother not the grandmother but some rags like Hello are pushing her as the grandmother. Technically the baby has three living grandparents, a deceased paternal grandmother and a paternal stepgrandmother.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 11, 2013, 09:27:00 pm
Well now there is a theory on this very forum that William is not Charles son...a theory that I don't buy into, but some people do.  So according to that theory, Charles isn't the grandfather at all, and Diana was unfaithful from the beginning.   :-  ???

   That is just plain nasty .. Diana was very much in love with Charles and was still a new bride when she conceived William.

    ... and just have to say that Harry's paternity would have been established by the RF... they would give anything to discredit Diana more than they have already done.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: AnaBolena on July 12, 2013, 07:43:29 pm
I don't think William is crass enough to "substitute" Camilla for the deceased grandmother. I think he will tell the baby as he or she grows up about Diana, the genuine grandmother. Camilla did not even raise him but married Charles after he and Harry grew up.  I think that Camilla and Charles would be crass enough to promote her as the grandmother and airbrush Diana out. I suspect the baby will spend a lot more time with the MIddletons than he or she will spend with Camilla who has her own grandchildren. She is stepgrandmother not the grandmother but some rags like Hello are pushing her as the grandmother. Technically the baby has three living grandparents, a deceased paternal grandmother and a paternal stepgrandmother.

Sandy, no, I do believe William is not crass enough, but I don't think it will happen - not substitute, anyway.  I stated that Camilla is the legal "step grandmother" as far as I am lawfully aware. However, I honestly believe this child will find out all about his/her true maternal grandmother - who sadly cannot grandmother her grandchild.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on July 12, 2013, 10:19:37 pm
No Diana to be grandmother is the saddest thing for this baby. So much would have be different if she was not killed
 :NOwhy:

Camzilla yuk, stinking of fags and that face coming close to you.... :bat:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 13, 2013, 03:56:02 am


  The idea of this is ghastly, but we know that history will record what this CPB woman did to Diana, that is how CPB will be remembered.

   On her back ... The Mattress.  :tehe:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 14, 2013, 09:22:57 am
Well she certainly will play the role of a "grandmother" she is the one waiting for the phone call this child is born , she is the one who will be there for this child's Christening , she will be there every Christmas and family occasions , she will be at the first day at school and so on and so forth ... this as unfair as it might look the reality of the situation ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Freya on July 14, 2013, 12:44:51 pm
^
This is a Middleton baby. There will only be one grandmother.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 14, 2013, 01:56:39 pm
One can only have two sets of Grandparents. On Kate's side there is Mike and Carole but on Williams side the child has Charles and Diana. Diana is still the Grandmother to this child even though she is no longer with us.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 14, 2013, 04:14:25 pm
^ No one said otherwise ... but there is Camilla too ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on July 14, 2013, 05:22:56 pm
And that Jane23 is the main issue, she is here and Diana is not
Chuckles is so hell bent on acceptance that he will push Camzilla and make her a saint out of it, a nurturer


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 14, 2013, 06:27:57 pm
Why does everything has to be so black and white? I see no harm in Cam playing "grandma" to Will and Harry's children given that the real one is dead isn't that a good thing?  :dontknow:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 14, 2013, 08:01:23 pm
Because Camilla destroyed the family of this child's Father so that she could get her rear end where it is now. She has more than she deserves already there is no point in giving her more. She has Grandchildren of her own and she should play Grandma to them. I see nothing wrong with the Child calling Charles Grandpa while at the same time referring to his wife as Camilla, that other woman, Rottweiller or Mrs. Parker Bowles all names that Camilla is familiar with.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Anne-Elliot on July 14, 2013, 08:10:05 pm
Jane23 - The 'real one' is dead because (as she predicted) she died in a car accident, which she believed would be set up to clear the way for PC to marry his mistress....

For Camzilla to coo over Diana's grandchild after all the misery she caused Diana in her short lifetime, is beyond reprehensible.   It was bad enough watching Cam work the crowds the night before PW's wedding - as if she was mother of the groom.  She got what she wanted, but no need rub the Spencers noses in it.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 14, 2013, 11:56:44 pm
Because Camilla destroyed the family of this child's Father so that she could get her rear end where it is now. She has more than she deserves already there is no point in giving her more. She has Grandchildren of her own and she should play Grandma to them. I see nothing wrong with the Child calling Charles Grandpa while at the same time referring to his wife as Camilla, that other woman, Rottweiller or Mrs. Parker Bowles all names that Camilla is familiar with.
Or maybe his parents did ... Camilla didn't force anyone to do anything ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 15, 2013, 03:14:30 pm
Camilla didn't say no to Charles and didn't exactly fight off becoming his mistress to put it mildly. She had her claws in Charles and it was in her interest for Charles marriage to Diana not to work out. She'd lose her sugar daddy, still be married to APB, her sister would not get the lucrative work, and her son would have difficulty hawking his books and Camilla would not be bowed and scraped to and have all the jewels and perks. Had she backed off I think Charles would have been forced to give up his mistress and work on his marriage. Camilla also had contempt for Diana.

"Well she certainly will play the role of a "grandmother" she is the one waiting for the phone call this child is born , she is the one who will be there for this child's Christening , she will be there every Christmas and family occasions , she will be at the first day at school and so on and so forth ... this as unfair as it might look the reality of the situation ..." Why would Camilla be at the first day of school? I think kate and William have that job locked up. Camilla has a living ex husband with whom she shares five grandchildren. I think they will be her first priority as she wants to advance her own flesh and blood family. CHARLES I think is the one waiting for the phone call not his wife. Her Royal Tackiness can't have everything.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: AnaBolena on July 15, 2013, 04:14:55 pm
...........with the Child calling Charles Grandpa while at the same time referring to his wife as Camilla, that other woman, Rottweiller or Mrs. Parker Bowles all names that Camilla is familiar with.

To teach a child to deliberately not only feel *despise* but to act it out is one of the most abusive things I could ever imagine. bignono

NONE of the three were puritans. 


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 15, 2013, 04:31:02 pm
It was a joke AnaBolena no one is going to teach the child to call Camilla anything but Camilla.

I am not going to pretend that I like Charles & Camilla as people because I don't. I even give Camilla more slack than I do Charles.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 15, 2013, 04:31:41 pm
No way would anybody tell the child to "*despise*" Camilla. But there are extremes to the other side too. Forgetting the real grandmother to promote Camilla as "grandmother" is very wrong IMO. The history of Camilla vs Diana is out t here and as the baby grows up he or she will learn about it all and make his or her own interpretations.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 15, 2013, 04:35:40 pm
Camilla didn't say no to Charles and didn't exactly fight off becoming his mistress to put it mildly. She had her claws in Charles and it was in her interest for Charles marriage to Diana not to work out. She'd lose her sugar daddy, still be married to APB, her sister would not get the lucrative work, and her son would have difficulty hawking his books and Camilla would not be bowed and scraped to and have all the jewels and perks. Had she backed off I think Charles would have been forced to give up his mistress and work on his marriage. Camilla also had contempt for Diana.

"Well she certainly will play the role of a "grandmother" she is the one waiting for the phone call this child is born , she is the one who will be there for this child's Christening , she will be there every Christmas and family occasions , she will be at the first day at school and so on and so forth ... this as unfair as it might look the reality of the situation ..." Why would Camilla be at the first day of school? I think kate and William have that job locked up. Camilla has a living ex husband with whom she shares five grandchildren. I think they will be her first priority as she wants to advance her own flesh and blood family. CHARLES I think is the one waiting for the phone call not his wife. Her Royal Tackiness can't have everything.
Yeah , yeah it was all evil Camilla's fault we know the story ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 15, 2013, 04:37:23 pm
Camilla and Diana have a history with one another and not a good one--Camilla is not some old lady who reconnected with Charles--she interfered in Diana's marriage and not in a good way. Camilla had to back off from going to Diana's Memorial service due to negative public opinion. Her past is there Jane and it won't go away.  Camilla was not a robot and had a free will she is not guilt free because she willingly chose to get involved with Charles while she was married and later when both were married and not to each other.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 15, 2013, 05:27:28 pm
Like them or not, I think there is going to be a backlash. There was one when Camilla acted as mother of the groom during the wedding, so let's see what happens when the video of the christening is released.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: AnaBolena on July 15, 2013, 08:40:24 pm
Ladies, ladies - I am not saying Camilla is a white rose; that's outrageous.  :tehe:   I guess what I try to say now and then is that when does this all end?  When is there a time to say - enough?  When has Camilla, Charles, and Diana paid enough to appease all??  They each made choices as we all do.  All of us can change.

There is one thing I admired about Diana when I see her pictures - she could never hide her emotions.

She was a happy bride walking down that aisle, so happy she floated - au contraire to the "lamb to slaughter"; she knew about Camilla and no one dragged her down the aisle screaming.  She wanted to be PoW as much as Wasty wanted her position.  I have read over and over how she was the one who made passes at PC, although the major instigator in the marriage was the Queen Mother - not PC.

I can't help but see the body language between Camilla and Charles - it's clearly love, and "in love" at that, whether we like it or not.

Had they both murdered Diana they would have been out of prison by now.  Therefore, I fail to understand the constant never letting go of the past.  Never forgiving.  Never saying "we are all human". 

What Camilla and Charles did was very very wrong.  It goes on on society left right and center and hence does not make Diana unique by any stretch of the imagination.   

Now ------- if only Diana was scared enough of dying in a car accident that she had put a seat belt on things would be oh so different for her boys, for her, and for her grandchild.

Camilla has, as far as body language goes, been a good Mother to her children, and her grandchildren are clearly at ease with her.  If a child finds her a comfort, who are we in the absence of Diana to take that away from a child?

Children have a beautiful innocence - I hope this child can be left some, although with W and K I doubt it.

   


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 15, 2013, 08:50:27 pm
Diana could not have possibly known all about Camilla or what she would do. Had she had the gift of ESP she probably would have said no to Charles and the whole mess. She thought Charles loved her and would be faithful to his wedding vows. She thought "well that's over" (according to her Morton tapes) when she saw Camilla. Of course she loved and believed in Charles then. The problem was she didn't know Charles would not totally sever ties with Camilla and Camilla would be a threat to the marriage. Charles was the major instigator not the Queen Mother. He was not a baby but 32 and old enough to make his own choices and decisions. But he blamed everyone else for his problems via the Dimbleby biography. I think he wanted a wife and family but on his terms, terms  he never discussed honestly and completely with Diana. I don't know if it's "love" with Charles and Camilla. He is obligated to her since he named her in 1994 and I think Charles is his great love and she is her own great love. I see them both as self centered and she very manipulative. Because many people cheat it doesn't make it right. I don't think it is clearly love--she does spend time away at Raymill and even if they are not as close anymore, they are not going to get a divorce since Charles would hurt his reputation further and he created the Great Love spin.

I think Camilla loves the $$$ and perks which is why she became a mistress to the Prince of Wales. Had he been Charles Jones I doubt she'd have given him the right time. Charles saw many other ladies besides Camilla and Diana and cheated on his "great love' Camilla. Camilla did not wait for Charles when they were both single and married APB. He did not tell Camilla to wait for him and considered her mistress  material. I think he would still be with Camilla as his mistress (that is if he got tired of her--if Diana didn't care there would be no thrill of his sneaking around on his wife) had Diana not cared one way or the other. That is not "love" in my book.

It is not known if a seat belt would have saved Diana. I think the very slow ride to the hospital did her in. It was a horrendous crash from which a seat belt may not have made a difference. Nobody knows and it's all speculation. I don't think Diana should be blamed for instigating  her own death. It was a very unfortunate and tragic accident and she died due to various factors and circumstances..The speeding car, the paparazzi, the drunk driver who apparently showed no signs of intoxication so the bodyguard gave the go ahead for the passengers to get in, and the long long trip to the hospital.

Under the circumstances, I think Camilla can be getting along with the child but should never ever claim that she is "grandmother" because the real one is dead. That is just sordid and tacky. I think William and Kate will make sure that the child knows how special the deceased grandmother is.

I think Camilla can go just so far. She could  not go to the Diana Memorial because she was heavily criticized and had to back out almost at the last minute. Also her playing mother of the groom at the William-Kate wedding did not exactly endear her to people. If she starts calling herself grandmother to Diana's baby I think there will be a backlash. Charles is not stupid and I think he realizes she will have to be reined in to not undo the spin about them.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: CathyJane on July 15, 2013, 09:41:19 pm
Camilla didn't say no to Charles and didn't exactly fight off becoming his mistress to put it mildly. She had her claws in Charles and it was in her interest for Charles marriage to Diana not to work out. She'd lose her sugar daddy, still be married to APB, her sister would not get the lucrative work, and her son would have difficulty hawking his books and Camilla would not be bowed and scraped to and have all the jewels and perks. Had she backed off I think Charles would have been forced to give up his mistress and work on his marriage. Camilla also had contempt for Diana.

"Well she certainly will play the role of a "grandmother" she is the one waiting for the phone call this child is born , she is the one who will be there for this child's Christening , she will be there every Christmas and family occasions , she will be at the first day at school and so on and so forth ... this as unfair as it might look the reality of the situation ..." Why would Camilla be at the first day of school? I think kate and William have that job locked up. Camilla has a living ex husband with whom she shares five grandchildren. I think they will be her first priority as she wants to advance her own flesh and blood family. CHARLES I think is the one waiting for the phone call not his wife. Her Royal Tackiness can't have everything.

I do agree, Sandy!!


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Anne-Elliot on July 15, 2013, 10:30:38 pm
Diana could not have possibly known all about Camilla or what she would do. Had she had the gift of ESP she probably would have said no to Charles and the whole mess. She thought Charles loved her and would be faithful to his wedding vows. She thought "well that's over" (according to her Morton tapes) when she saw Camilla. Of course she loved and believed in Charles then. The problem was she didn't know Charles would not totally sever ties with Camilla and Camilla would be a threat to the marriage. Charles was the major instigator not the Queen Mother. He was not a baby but 32 and old enough to make his own choices and decisions. But he blamed everyone else for his problems via the Dimbleby biography. I think he wanted a wife and family but on his terms, terms  he never discussed honestly and completely with Diana. I don't know if it's "love" with Charles and Camilla. He is obligated to her since he named her in 1994 and I think Charles is his great love and she is her own great love. I see them both as self centered and she very manipulative. Because many people cheat it doesn't make it right. I don't think it is clearly love--she does spend time away at Raymill and even if they are not as close anymore, they are not going to get a divorce since Charles would hurt his reputation further and he created the Great Love spin.

I think Camilla loves the $$$ and perks which is why she became a mistress to the Prince of Wales. Had he been Charles Jones I doubt she'd have given him the right time. Charles saw many other ladies besides Camilla and Diana and cheated on his "great love' Camilla. Camilla did not wait for Charles when they were both single and married APB. He did not tell Camilla to wait for him and considered her mistress  material. I think he would still be with Camilla as his mistress (that is if he got tired of her--if Diana didn't care there would be no thrill of his sneaking around on his wife) had Diana not cared one way or the other. That is not "love" in my book.

It is not known if a seat belt would have saved Diana. I think the very slow ride to the hospital did her in. It was a horrendous crash from which a seat belt may not have made a difference. Nobody knows and it's all speculation. I don't think Diana should be blamed for instigating  her own death. It was a very unfortunate and tragic accident and she died due to various factors and circumstances..The speeding car, the paparazzi, the drunk driver who apparently showed no signs of intoxication so the bodyguard gave the go ahead for the passengers to get in, and the long long trip to the hospital.

Under the circumstances, I think Camilla can be getting along with the child but should never ever claim that she is "grandmother" because the real one is dead. That is just sordid and tacky. I think William and Kate will make sure that the child knows how special the deceased grandmother is.

I think Camilla can go just so far. She could  not go to the Diana Memorial because she was heavily criticized and had to back out almost at the last minute. Also her playing mother of the groom at the William-Kate wedding did not exactly endear her to people. If she starts calling herself grandmother to Diana's baby I think there will be a backlash. Charles is not stupid and I think he realizes she will have to be reined in to not undo the spin about them.


 :thumbsup:  Another excellent post Sandy!

AB - I think people find it difficult to 'let go' of Diana, not just because she was much loved & much missed, but because they see her being airbrushed out of history by C&C.  The arrogant indifference of these creatures to public feeling since her death beggars belief.  Whether it is  PC referring to the two of them as Harry's 'parents', hijacking Diana's memorial, to Camzilla parading herself as mother of the groom, & next up, grandmother to PW's child.   Their insensitivity is sickening to me.

PC never did get what was wrong with putting Camzilla first, and he still doesn't, which is why I will never accept these two.





Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 16, 2013, 03:01:45 am
Some seem to take joy in the fact Diana will never see "HER" grandchild ?

        I don't know if these people have children .. it's baffling really.

       Camilla doesn't play happy families with the Wales lads, they don't see much of her at all, or much of their Papa either.

        They were adult men when their father married CPB, she didn't mother them, I doubt she will grandmother their children either.

        I have had two stepfathers, and neither of them are "Grandpa" to my children... my own father is no longer here.

        First day of school ... not a chance ...first phone call .. I doubt that very much .. HM will get the first phone call .. then Charles.. no one will ask to speak to Cammy, why would they?

       Camilla is of little importance to either of Diana's sons' .. they are polite because it is expected of them, they are NOT chums or "her boys".

  PS we won't ever really know if Diana chose not to wear a seat belt.. the last minute substituted Mercedes with no bullet or bomb proof body, picked by Henri Paul,  mysteriously caught on fire in an empty garage, before it could be properly examined, to see if the seat belts were in working order.  ???



Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 16, 2013, 03:19:23 am
I don't know why it is assumed that if one doesn't like Charles it is all about Diana. I didn't like Charles long before Diana came on the scene and through all these years he has behaved in the same arrogant self entitled way that made me not like him. Yes people can change but they don't always change and I have seen no change or remorse in Charles or Camilla and after 15 years I don't expect to see it unless they feel it will help them out PR wise.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 16, 2013, 03:28:26 am


  I liked Charles very much when he was a young man, and in his twenties, but after his marriage he became a toad of a man, and I lost all respect for him.

  Many of us feel that way.

  We saw a side to this person that is not honourable, kind or caring.... for all his faff about the Princes Trust... which was an idea used long before he was born.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 16, 2013, 04:11:07 am
  Sorry for double posting .. please merge mods  :thankyou:

  This post on the DM says what I really think ..

 Please read Charles' autobiography ... he said he was not ready for marriage and went off to do his navy stuff, and Camilla then married Andrew Parker Bowles.... no one forced him to walk away .. he chose to walk away.. all the drivel about him being forbidden to marry Camilla is just that .. sheer drivel. When he got back from the navy he resumed his relationship with a married Camilla, and no one forced him to do that either. Diana was 19 when she met him... 20 when she married him ... Camilla was 13 years older than Diana, and "befriended her, Charles was 12 years older than Diana. Who manipulated who ? Answers on a postcard please


- Alexandra , Vancouver, Canada, 16/7/2013 02:24

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2363867/New-photographs-Princess-Wales-dancing-Tom-Selleck-Clint-Eastwood-White-House-party.html#ixzz2ZAs6k6HM
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Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Freya on July 16, 2013, 04:43:58 am


  I liked Charles very much when he was a young man, and in his twenties, but after his marriage he became a toad of a man, and I lost all respect for him.

  Many of us feel that way.

  We saw a side to this person that is not honourable, kind or caring.... for all his faff about the Princes Trust... which was an idea used long before he was born.

I'm a little bit younger than Charles but he never appealed to me as a young woman. I always thought that if he had been an ordinary bloke no one would have given him a second glance.

I have always been interested in the historical side of royalty but only started taking an interest in the present RF when Diana came into the fold.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 16, 2013, 04:59:48 am
  
   I grew up listening to stories of various royal families, historical and current, my grt grandfather was a great friend of George V, and my grandmother's side is Hamilton/Bowes Lyon.

  My family have fought for and served the RF for a few hundred years.

  I spent a lot of my young years at Balmoral and Holyrood Palace.

  We were raised on ghost stories, the Katherine Bar The Door adventure, Mary Queen of Scots tales, Bonnie Prince Charles, who my ancestors fought for, and one was beheaded for, another was beheaded by Elizabeth I, for the Babbington Plot.

    I could go on , but I digress.

  Charles as a young man was a monty python fan, still is, he was actually quite funny, in ye olde days.

  Horrible that he grew up to be such a pompous , self deluded  :*butt*:

  I watched his investiture as Prince of Wales, and we all cheered loudly... sad really.

  

  


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Freya on July 16, 2013, 05:05:22 am
^
Patrick Lichfield (the late Earl of Lichfield) was related to the Bowes-Lyons family. I always liked him when I was younger and older. He was a very bohemian type and much loved in Staffordshire.

Saw a piece of jewellery at auction a while ago that belonged to a lady called Ernestine Bowes-Lyons. A brooch in the shape of a crown. Is she related to you?


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: AnaBolena on July 16, 2013, 04:01:07 pm
Some seem to take joy in the fact Diana will never see "HER" grandchild ?

        I don't know if these people have children .. it's baffling really.

If that is aimed at me, thank you, Tatiana.

I am presuming no one is permitted to ever let the Diana incident be the past and look to the future or we are judged as taking joy in the fact that she won't see her grandchild.

What an utter horrid thing to say about anyone, Tatiana.  I don't know of anyone who wouldn't prefer another woman to be alive to see her grandchildren - no matter who the woman is, Diana or any woman.







Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 16, 2013, 04:09:59 pm
Looking to the future should not mean Camilla becomes the grandmother of the royal baby and Diana is she who is never mentioned. Camilla is nervy and pushy and I would not put anything past her. She lucked out and married Charles but she never was parent to William and Harry nor should be grandparent to the royal baby. She is stepgrandparent and should not usurp Diana's title as grandmother.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Freya on July 16, 2013, 04:50:52 pm
^
I only ever knew one of my grandparents. The man I called granddad was not my real grandfather. I liked him but I always knew he was not my real grandfather. I think the fact that Camilla has her own grandchildren may help to define Camilla's position. 


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Anne-Elliot on July 16, 2013, 07:14:31 pm
^ She also had her own spouse, but that didn't stop her grabbing another's husband.

AB - little more than an 'incident' I think.  Diana suffered years of misery at the hands of this callous couple.   Even in death, they continue to drape themselves in Diana's mantle.  At the risk of repeating myself, I would happily look to the future, if PC showed an ounce of respect to his dead wife's memory.



Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 17, 2013, 04:07:24 am
 "At the risk of repeating myself, I would happily look to the future, if PC showed an ounce of respect to his dead wife's memory"  Anne Elliot beautifully stated  :thumbsup:

AnaBolena,
              I was not aiming anything at you personally, so don't get all shirty please.

             The point I was making was that if any of US had children, and we died, and the woman our husband had been rogering throughout our marriage, stepped into our place .. kids, homes, role, husband, life and now grandchildren.. how would that make us feel ?.. any of us.. especially if that person had caused us a dreadful harm... correction .. multiple... and there had been a concerted effort by our ex husband's family to air brush us from EVERYWHERE.. please think about this.

             This is a discussion board, I don't take what anyone else says here personally.. its the internet, we don't know one another, and we are supposed to not see eye to eye.. I think some lose grip of that reality.

             I am usually on the run when I respond or post .. my haste to get my point across may come across as horrid, but that is not my intention, and assuming anything is not usually worth it.

           I post on the BBC website, and its cut and thrust there.  I also post on other web sites, which I won't divulge   :-X

             Freya,
                      I have been about as specific as I will be on the internet, and with people I don't really know, I hope you understand.

        thank you
                     Tat

             


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Freya on July 17, 2013, 05:34:32 am
^
I can understand that.

Just as a matter of interest there were some letters in the same auction between Ernestine and P G Wodehouse. This branch of the family seemed quite friendly with Wodehouse.

http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1n4v5/AntiquesTradeGazette/resources/16.htm

The above link shows the brooch that I mentioned in the previous post. The Wodehouse letters were in the same sale.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 17, 2013, 07:29:48 pm

   Some very nice pieces there .. thanks for sharing  :thankyou:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 23, 2013, 01:25:10 am


  Very glad to see Charles referring to the baby as "his" grandchild.. and not "our" grandchild.

   His people/advisors have been watching the public reaction to his previous statement, and thankfully he listened.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 23, 2013, 08:12:53 am
^ Why in the World would he say "their" grandchild?


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 23, 2013, 01:56:49 pm
well he did try to push the envelope by referring to himself and Camilla as Harry's parents. I think courtiers advised him not to push Camilla as the grandmother.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 23, 2013, 02:01:44 pm
In the DM article about Charles it says that he is afraid he is going to be relegated to a second place and that W&K are cool towards Camilla. But he also doesn't like small children in his house so that's why Camz lives in Raymill a lot (suuure). Then they talk about how Charles was a good parent but was very away when his sons were teenagers. He didn't know what they were doing. This is why I don't feel pity for Charles he could have done a lot when Di died and that was the time when he left them more alone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2374385/Royal-baby-boy-born-What-kind-grandad-Prince-Charles-Ask-GEOFFREY-LEVY-AND-RICHARD-KAY.html


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 23, 2013, 02:05:24 pm
Charles played "great dad" for the press in 1998 by being photographed with his sons. He undid all of that very soon after when he used William in publicity to promote Camilla (the invitation to tea episode). I don't think a good father would use children to promote the mistress who was a huge factor in the breakup of his marriage to their mother. I think he loves his kids but unfortunately the mistress always came first at the expense of his first wife and their children.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 23, 2013, 02:10:28 pm
^I think using W as you mention is the less of all of it. I don't know if you have read the article but it is quite awful that he didn't know what his teenagers sons were doing especially when they had such a recent drama on their lives. He should have been with them and giving them all the support. If he is second rate now according to W it is because he made him like that.

I don't know who said that if C was criticising his parents W was going to be even worse.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 23, 2013, 02:47:48 pm
Charles could have waited longer to marry Camilla. She could not have more kids and he didn't need more heirs. Maybe more than one year of quality times with his sons would have made a big difference. He also overcoddled William to the point that William does whatever  he pleases and will continue to play soldier for as long as he can.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 23, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
The Daily Fail will bash Chuck because they are Carole's speed dial ... they ahve no idea about his life or how he feel about children ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 23, 2013, 03:20:48 pm
^then how do you explain all those glowing reports on Camilla these last months?


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 23, 2013, 03:22:02 pm
The DM bent over backwards praising Camilla even throwing the Queen herself under a bus to do so


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: rogue on July 23, 2013, 04:03:38 pm
The only person to blame for having very little to do in his sons life is Charles.Its me me me with him.He is reaping what he sowed.The distance between him and his sons is very telling.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 24, 2013, 02:42:23 am
  Jane

       I find it hilarious that you would say Carol M has the DM on speed dial .. when it was Camilla who had reporter Stuart Higgins on speed dial from day one of the marriage of Diana and Charles ..  :tehe:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Kit on July 24, 2013, 06:02:04 am
This child needs to respect Camilla bc she is his grandfather's wife. 

Wm's son and Camilla can develop whatever relationship they are comfortable with.  Perhaps Camolla will give off bad energy and the babe will cry whenever Camilla enters the room.  Or maybe she will be warm and kind.  Diana is gone and it's okay for Wm to honor and share his mother and still allow another woman to help fill the void.


They were all adults who instead of taking responsibility for their choices, behaved like spoiled brats.  They hurt each other and everyone around them, and crippled the monarchy.  Diana and her family weren't naive and many ways sold Diana down river the same way Carole pimped Kate.  Charles and Camilla were mean as snakes but Diana could be terrible too.  The difference is that Diana like many women today was successful professionally or publicly but couldn't manage her personal life well.  Charles and Camilla have failed miserably at both. 


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 24, 2013, 08:45:44 am
^ I agree on a lot of things you said .


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 24, 2013, 01:19:29 pm
The only person to blame for having very little to do in his sons life is Charles.Its me me me with him.He is reaping what he sowed.The distance between him and his sons is very telling.

Sadly true. I don't think they are very into Camilla either. William prefers to spend his holidays with the Midds and Harry even goes with the Yorks before than with these two. How long since they went holidaying together? Like not a couple of days but a long time and maybe abroad?


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: JuneBug on July 24, 2013, 01:30:52 pm
Quote
They were all adults who instead of taking responsibility for their choices, behaved like spoiled brats.  They hurt each other and everyone around them, and crippled the monarchy.  Diana and her family weren't naive and many ways sold Diana down river the same way Carole pimped Kate.  Charles and Camilla were mean as snakes but Diana could be terrible too.  The difference is that Diana like many women today was successful professionally or publicly but couldn't manage her personal life well.  Charles and Camilla have failed miserably at both.

I quite agree with this. The problem is that as human beings we cannot see what awaits us in the choices that we make. If we could we would might have chosen differently. That is why one should try and not let others pressure us into taking any decision.

I sometimes wonder whether if Diana had a do-over, she would still have married Charles

As for Camilla being pushed as a doting grandma for Baby Cambridge. Lets brace ourselves for more nauseating articles on the matter.  By the time they are done, we will be ready to run screaming down the streets saying "Pls make it stop  lol


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 24, 2013, 02:51:18 pm
This child needs to respect Camilla bc she is his grandfather's wife. 

Wm's son and Camilla can develop whatever relationship they are comfortable with.  Perhaps Camolla will give off bad energy and the babe will cry whenever Camilla enters the room.  Or maybe she will be warm and kind.  Diana is gone and it's okay for Wm to honor and share his mother and still allow another woman to help fill the void.


They were all adults who instead of taking responsibility for their choices, behaved like spoiled brats.  They hurt each other and everyone around them, and crippled the monarchy.  Diana and her family weren't naive and many ways sold Diana down river the same way Carole pimped Kate.  Charles and Camilla were mean as snakes but Diana could be terrible too.  The difference is that Diana like many women today was successful professionally or publicly but couldn't manage her personal life well.  Charles and Camilla have failed miserably at both. 

I don't think William will want Camilla to "fill the void" left by Diana. That would just be plain tacky. Of course since Camilla is married to his father then there would have to be civility but promoting Camilla to fill the void would really be wrong on many levels.

Diana went into the marriage in good faith. She would not have been "terrible" if she were not faced with the deception of her husband and the mistress. His friends and relatives and servants were encouraged to lie to Diana. I don't blame her and she was not being "terrible".

I think Charles will continue to push Camilla down the public's throats but I think William will be more with the Middletons and the baby will spend the most time with them.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Kit on July 24, 2013, 03:14:20 pm
This child needs to respect Camilla bc she is his grandfather's wife. 

Wm's son and Camilla can develop whatever relationship they are comfortable with.  Perhaps Camolla will give off bad energy and the babe will cry whenever Camilla enters the room.  Or maybe she will be warm and kind.  Diana is gone and it's okay for Wm to honor and share his mother and still allow another woman to help fill the void.


They were all adults who instead of taking responsibility for their choices, behaved like spoiled brats.  They hurt each other and everyone around them, and crippled the monarchy.  Diana and her family weren't naive and many ways sold Diana down river the same way Carole pimped Kate.  Charles and Camilla were mean as snakes but Diana could be terrible too.  The difference is that Diana like many women today was successful professionally or publicly but couldn't manage her personal life well.  Charles and Camilla have failed miserably at both. 

I don't think William will want Camilla to "fill the void" left by Diana. That would just be plain tacky. Of course since Camilla is married to his father then there would have to be civility but promoting Camilla to fill the void would really be wrong on many levels.

Diana went into the marriage in good faith. She would not have been "terrible" if she were not faced with the deception of her husband and the mistress. His friends and relatives and servants were encouraged to lie to Diana. I don't blame her and she was not being "terrible".

I think Charles will continue to push Camilla down the public's throats but I think William will be more with the Middletons and the baby will spend the most time with them.

When I mentioned helping to fill that void, I meant that when Wm's son is with the Windsors, he will have someone in that grandmother role.  It is up to Wm's son and Camilla what kind of relationship they have.  Even if Diana were still alive, when the child is with the Windsor's, Camilla holds that position as Charles' second wife.  Lots of children have more than 4 grandparents or individuals who act as surrogate grandparents.  It's okay for Wm's son to call Camilla granny, if that is how he sees her.  Wm doesn't have to adore Camilla and call her Mother, for his child to have a good relationship with her.  Most adults understand that in blended families individuals often play non-traditional roles.  Children are usually deciders of what they call relatives and how close they become to the adults in their lives.  They are good readers of people and usually want to be like other kids. 


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: YooperModerator on July 24, 2013, 03:27:17 pm
Exactly the child and camilla will start from a blank page time will tell how close they might become.
If the kid feels ok with it then why should it not be a nice relation.
Ou own feelings about her won't matter in this case.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 24, 2013, 03:38:45 pm
The parents can call the shots on what name Camilla would be called by the baby. Camilla has 5 grandchildren of her own with her first husband. I think that Charles is not called Grandpa by her grandkids. It is immaterial that Diana is dead, she is still the grandma. If Camilla had any tact or learned any or is told to do so she will come up with a name other than grandma for the baby to call her.  Considering her past with the child's late grandmother, I think Camilla will be encouraged by others to be tactful and not "replace" Diana. Even Charles didn't call Camilla the grandmother in the official announcement. From my own observations, the grandmother or stepgrandmother does call the shots and lets it be known what grandchildren call her.  

"Exactly the child and camilla will start from a blank page time will tell how close they might become.
If the kid feels ok with it then why should it not be a nice relation.
Ou own feelings about her won't matter in this case."

It is not a "blank slate" William's parents are Diana and Charles not Camilla and Charles. The baby's blank slate will be filled by stories about his late grandmother, photographs, and home movies. And under the circumstances with her PR, Camilla may be strongly urged not to have the baby refer to her as Grandma. She was about to walk into Diana's memorial service and public opinion kept her out. Camilla has to tread a fine line in anything to do with Diana since her popularity would plummet. Those on the fence about her would perhaps dislike her if she started to talk about the baby as "my grandson." People do remember Diana who is not a "blank slate."


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 24, 2013, 03:44:33 pm
Camilla won't have a big role in this baby's life & Charles will not be the average Grandfather with this baby. William has already been sending signals that he is in charge and they have gone into hiding again. I think William bought Middleton Manor and is just letting the Midds take care of the place for him.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: YooperModerator on July 24, 2013, 03:56:13 pm
Ppl yes but to the kid the emotional link to diana will be different he will only know OF her but will not be able to form a true emotional bond because shes no longer physically there to bond with.
He will hear stories and see pictures of course but in the end thats all hersay for him, he will never be able to truly form an opionion on her he will never hear her side of the story or feel her warmth.
I mean its like telling him about queen mum ( whitch charles will certainly do ) theres a distance that cant be bridged by pics or stories now matter how much you try.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on July 24, 2013, 03:57:31 pm
I hope it gets through his thick head, HIM CHARLES and DIANA are the only grandparents and never ever ever is it even remotely connected to that Rottweiler


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 24, 2013, 04:08:49 pm
Ppl yes but to the kid the emotional link to diana will be different he will only know OF her but will not be able to form a true emotional bond because shes no longer physically there to bond with.
He will hear stories and see pictures of course but in the end thats all hersay for him, he will never be able to truly form an opionion on her he will never hear her side of the story or feel her warmth.
I mean its like telling him about queen mum ( whitch charles will certainly do ) theres a distance that cant be bridged by pics or stories now matter how much you try.

Why would he necessarily have to bond with Camilla? He has three living grandparents. Camilla is not the one to fill an emotional bond with. Hopefully, William will keep the baby away from Camilla's "warmth" and he will spend time with his grandparents in Buckleberry.  The child is related to Diana and many children connect to deceased grandparents--this is their legacy.  Why should Camilla have to be pushed on this kid? I think it would be more for PR sake. The woman is a snake and loathed the child's grandmother. She has five grandkids to cuddle and be warm to. I shudder at the thought of pushing the woman as a "substitute" because Diana is no longer with us. It would also have repercussions for her if she tries to push herself and have PR photos cuddling the baby. Camilla is pushy and nervy and always wanted everything Diana  had if she usurps grandmotherhood also and "takes the place" of Diana, I think her popularity would slide and people would loathe her more or start disliking her. She's part of the family thanks to Charles stupidity but she should not be foisted on that kid as a replacement grandmother for Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: YooperModerator on July 24, 2013, 04:10:17 pm
And ma and pa midds as well of course.... :hide:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 24, 2013, 04:12:19 pm
Like it or  not, the Middletons don't have the baggage and history Camilla has. They are the actual grandparents and didn't  see off the real grandparents to "take over".  I can see Camilla smirking in triumph holding Diana's grandchild and claliming grandmother hood. Loathesome woman.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on July 24, 2013, 07:36:21 pm
   Charles is not comfortable around small children.. hence Camilla's other "home".

    The public will stand up and be heard,  if they shove Camilla in our faces as a granny to the little Prince.

     I think the Midds are younger and will be much more fun to be around for a little boy.

       I know from friends, William and Harry don't see much of their father, apart from royal events.

         I never knew my grt grandparents, but I have a fondness for them because I was told about them.

            Diana is still loved worldwide, and the boy will grow up hearing from many sources exactly who Camilla was in Diana's life.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: CathyJane on July 24, 2013, 07:44:37 pm
Oh I so agree, Sandy. It's going to get worse and worse as time goes on. :angry:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on July 24, 2013, 08:26:43 pm
The one and there is very little shining light, the mad middledooms might see Diana, as a saint and tell the boy this.They were after the ring fHRHor Fake bump Cathy
so maybe there is an esteem for HRH, Diana Princess of Wales


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: RoyalWatcher on July 24, 2013, 10:20:14 pm
However Charles may like to push his wife into the "grandmother" role........Camilla is not, nor will she ever be this baby's grandmother.  Fact is, biologically she is not related to this child, except through marriage.  And a marriage that is highly questioned as being considered Legal.

He has one living grandmother (Carole Middleton) and one dead grandmother, (Diana Princess of Wales.) 


I do believe that he will develope some kind of relationship with Camilla, but it won't be in the same vein as being a "grandma" like she is to her own grandchildren.   And that's o.k.  Little kids need adults who love them unconditionally, scoop them up and kiss their boo-boos, and make cookies and tell tall stories.......



Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: JuneBug on July 24, 2013, 11:04:24 pm
Quote
I think William bought Middleton Manor and is just letting the Midds take care of the place for him.

I agree with you 100%. i have always thought so too



Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: berlin on July 25, 2013, 02:50:25 am
The one good thing I can say about the Middleton's, is that they probably do revere Diana and will share that with Prince George.

This is another example of Charles putting Camilla above everything, or perhaps he's putting himself above everything.  Some blame Diana for distancing Charles from the boys, but after her death he still maintained a distance.   So I can't say I'm shocked that George will be around the Middleton's more, when Charles wasn't even there for his boys, and of course Camilla doesn't belong.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: dianab on July 25, 2013, 03:15:09 am
The only person to blame for having very little to do in his sons life is Charles.Its me me me with him.He is reaping what he sowed.The distance between him and his sons is very telling.
IMO is (very) telling his sons as soon as they were legally adults the very 1rst thing they made was look for/search for steady/long-term girlfriends with normal families (at least compared to Windsors) and made of them their surrogate families. The Great Father spin, I've never bought. William ended up marrying the steady/long-term girlfriend having through her an surrogate family and Harry for years said only feels at home in SA and wanted live there - miles away of great father & his nanny/mistress :nervous: (in others words he longed for to live many miles away of people who detest his mother) :laundry:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Adeline on July 25, 2013, 03:48:00 am
The Midds do hold a lot of trump cards on William. They pretend to provide a warm, caring "normal" family and that's what drew him in and sadly what will probably make him stay. He's either going to be too clueless or too scared to leave the comfort of this family.

I agree that William and Charles probably have a strained relationship, they really don't appear that close (I think Harry and Charles have a better relationship and are much closer).

I think that if it were not for Harry, William would have already been done with the family. I think that's one of the big reasons he didn't go to Christmas at Sandringham, because Harry wasn't there. Despite how he treats Harry, I do feel like William really does care about him. It's going to be interesting to see the new family dynamics now that little George is here. Will William further isolate himself from the RF? Or will he finally start accepting his fate and step it up?


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: dianab on July 25, 2013, 04:06:34 am
Ppl yes but to the kid the emotional link to diana will be different he will only know OF her but will not be able to form a true emotional bond because shes no longer physically there to bond with.
He will hear stories and see pictures of course but in the end thats all hersay for him, he will never be able to truly form an opionion on her he will never hear her side of the story or feel her warmth.
I mean its like telling him about queen mum ( whitch charles will certainly do ) theres a distance that cant be bridged by pics or stories now matter how much you try.
Well Camilla dont coexisted or know Alice K, but for all of accounts she was & is PRETTY MUCH proud of hers & her story with King & Queen A.

As much she wanted made of bio paternal grandmother of little George, the new Queen A in end of 20th Century. The very reliable late James Whitaker said William & Harry dislike Camilla and barely spend time with Charles because Camilla and choose be with their surrogate families (Kate & Chelsy's families) than their father. I believed more what came from the mouth of that man (James Whitaker) than ANY official version.

I'm sure that William & Harry would left the little one & his future siblings & cousins know what grandad & mistress are about/sort of persons they truly are and what are the real reasons that Dad & Uncle CHOOSE not spend time with their only alive parent. And the reasons the relationship that Dad have with Mom's parents is non-existent with only alive parent of Dad.

William and Harry are no rare case in the world, what's more out there are people havent good relations with blooded relatives find an family in relatives of future spouse and in friends. Cases as them are fillled in several psychologists for many years, even long-before they were born.

IMO this kid & Camilla only could build an relation if they had to see each other often, I dont see it. William nor Harry for many years dont stayed or visit Highgrove now, they dont visit the home (Raymill?) of Camilla or CH. In Sandringham, William & Kate have their own home, in all probability with exception of Harry, none other Windsor would visit, and also Camilla dont stay much there as her own grandchildren & children are UNwelcome and she always left early. By many accounts the only in-law well liked for family is Sophie, there's many comments as Camilla isnt liked for family, at Balmoral she & Charles stayed in an home separated. I dont see any reason this kid will be an exception in Windsors and would likes and want have relationship with Camilla.

PS.Even this sudden sycophancy by Daily Mail (to Camilla) is stated that Charles & Camilla wouldnt have much contact with the baby.


Quote
(I think Harry and Charles have a better relationship and are much closer).
Disagree, the kiss between Harry & Charles in that garden, give me many bad vibes, seemed Harry was trying be fake when he's known for be natural :nervous:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 25, 2013, 09:21:13 am
^ We must have seen different pictures ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 01:04:15 pm
She saw the photo that I saw where there was an awkward hug & kiss to Charles & Camilla.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 25, 2013, 01:54:12 pm
^ More like wishful thinking ... I agree Harry seems to be the one who Chuck has a better relationship with ... or at least the one he can easily talk to without temper tantrums... I think a lot of people have the two boys "personalities" mixed up Harry is more like Chuck than people realize ... while Willy well he got the worse personality traits of his parents he is a mess !!!


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 02:00:04 pm
If Harry is like Charles then he sure has been hiding it his entire life. People who were old enough to remember Diana will point out the similarities.

William is just like Charles arrogant, self entitled, controlling, temperamental and not the sharpest tool in the shed.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 25, 2013, 04:28:55 pm
^ You are saying this because you only see Prince Charles as a "Monster" the guy shocker has good qualities :June: ...his dedication to The Army , his incredible polo skills , his interest in arts, his sense of humor, his interest in Gardening don't come from Di just saying ... it's all hype that he is the second coming to Di ... the woman died when he was 12 he probably remembers very few things of her  :June: ... anyways Willy is an angry guy ( and I totally get why) and Di would have payed had she lived for his childhood make no mistake about it I doubt the two would have been close and again I get why ... but there comes a time where you have to forgive your parents and make peace with the past Willy isn't there yet ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 04:45:26 pm
Quote
People who were old enough to remember Diana will point out the similarities.

Don't tell me how I see anyone or how I feel about them because you have no idea.
Quote
The Army , his incredible polo skills , his interest in arts, his sense of humor, his interest in Gardening

They all support the military because it is advantageous to them.
Polo skills can be accomplished by anyone if they practice.
Harry has no interests in the Arts if he did then he would show it.
Harry has a sense of humor but Charles is just a clown playing a role.
Harry has no interest in gardening or he would not have been seen buying plastic plants for his apartment.

When everything a person does provides benefit to themselves that is not a good quality.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on July 25, 2013, 04:49:33 pm
William and Harry do not have gardening hobby.

Charles traits are somewhat symptomatic of being the "heir" which William also is as next in line to Charles. They are kowtowed to more than "spares" and think themselves special and entitled. William is like Charles in this regard but in some ways worse because he does not have a good work ethic nor appears interested in serious charity work.



Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Jane23 on July 25, 2013, 05:05:04 pm
Quote
People who were old enough to remember Diana will point out the similarities.

Don't tell me how I see anyone or how I feel about them because you have no idea.
Quote
The Army , his incredible polo skills , his interest in arts, his sense of humor, his interest in Gardening

They all support the military because it is advantageous to them.
Polo skills can be accomplished by anyone if they practice.
Harry has no interests in the Arts if he did then he would show it.
Harry has a sense of humor but Charles is just a clown playing a role.
Harry has no interest in gardening or he would not have been seen buying plastic plants for his apartment.

When everything a person does provides benefit to themselves that is not a good quality.
We should open a specific topic about this ... this one is about how "evil" Chuck is "pushing" for Cam to be George's "grandmother" ...


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 05:09:20 pm
I think it is about Hello magazine trying to push Camilla as the Grandmother. Charles has not called her Grandmother in public anyway. As I said he does what benefits him and telling the public that Camilla is Grandmother will not benefit him at all.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Alexandrine on July 25, 2013, 05:11:01 pm
^Hello has direct line with the palace. Won't do anything that will be not ok with them.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 05:19:17 pm
Yes they always float new PR campaigns out to the public to see the reaction and apparently the palace decided that Camilla was not the Grandmother.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: dianab on July 25, 2013, 05:33:11 pm
-Charles called Sandhurst the hell on Earth. Is well-known he almost killed himself in an acident and IIRC this acident cost 1 million to public coffers.

-Harry havent interest in arts &/or in gardening - Good Lord, why the Charles-lovers couldnt argue with the reality, real facts? :bored:

-Diana was known for her sense of humour put people at easy, likes jokes. The sense of humour of Charles is more known for be linked to his obvious jealousy of Dana.

Quote
his incredible polo skills
Wasnt Charles Who taught William & Harry to ride & play polo. Because is well-known in back then Charles choose be tampax of an Rottweiler than be with his children. ;) Is wel-known Papa hadnt interest in them, unless PR was involved. This is an man who never wanted have an wife and/or children. Only made both the things because was only way he had for left his line to throne.

And was Charles who pushed Harry to military carrer because he wanted be polo player. Ingrid Seward said it her last book.

IMO the whole thing (kisses, hugs, small-talk) in that garden was screamed "set-up", forced... IMO was obvious the discomfort of Harry with all of these persons (his partenal relatives). Is striking the difference when he's around William from the scene in that garden.

IMO William & Harry (particularly William for he being the heir) longed for the monarchy ended, in others words for Republic. :nervous: IMO Charles wouldnt could rely on these two for the monarchy he wants. Because I dont see any loyalty of them to Papa... Charles allowed them have the lifestyle that they're pleased and back they keep an facade with him & Camilla.

IMO he wants put Camilla as the grandmother of George. But, again, the whole thing would backfired  :bored:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: royalwindsorfan on August 09, 2013, 08:06:13 pm


  The idea of this is ghastly, but we know that history will record what this CPB woman did to Diana, that is how CPB will be remembered.

   On her back ... The Mattress.  :tehe:

lol

I think prince George will look kindly on Camilla,because William is kind to her,and its the only paternal granny besides the queen he will know.william allowed Camilla to go to the hospital with Charles and see the baby.at least Camilla wants to spoil and dote on the baby,makes up for his grand aunt anne's lack of interest.lol.i thin k anne will be good with her own grandkids though.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: gingerboy24 on August 09, 2013, 10:01:04 pm
I don´t think prince george will look kindly on CPB  -  wimpo won´t allow it, he hates her and will instil that in the sprog from a very early age. 


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on August 09, 2013, 10:02:32 pm
    Me thinks not...Charles insisted on bringing his doxy to see the baby...

    William and Harry do not spend much time at all with Camilla, except for state and family
 occasions.

    It's all about PR from Clarence House.

     When Charles pops his clogs, Camilla will be person non grata.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: royalwindsorfan on August 09, 2013, 11:59:37 pm
I thought wills liked camilla since he allow her to go to his wedding when he didn't even let fergie go


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: dianab on August 10, 2013, 12:13:59 am
None of Windsors have time for Fergie, with the exception of her daughters & Andrew.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: JuneBug on August 10, 2013, 10:10:01 pm
Harry seems to like Fergie. She will soon be invited to all his functions if all goes as planned  :tehe:.

As for Camilla, lets wait and see what happens. IMO, the ball is in William court. he will decide what happens. We all know that Kate will do whatever Wills says.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: sandy on August 11, 2013, 08:12:46 pm


  The idea of this is ghastly, but we know that history will record what this CPB woman did to Diana, that is how CPB will be remembered.

   On her back ... The Mattress.  :tehe:

lol

I think prince George will look kindly on Camilla,because William is kind to her,and its the only paternal granny besides the queen he will know.william allowed Camilla to go to the hospital with Charles and see the baby.at least Camilla wants to spoil and dote on the baby,makes up for his grand aunt anne's lack of interest.lol.i thin k anne will be good with her own grandkids though.

I don't think Prince George will be with Camilla that much other than photo ops. She is not his Paternal Granny and never will be--she also has her own grandkids to look after and advance.  I don't think William had any choice about Camilla accompanying his dad on that hospital visit. I hope Prince George does get to know the Spencer clan.


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on August 11, 2013, 10:30:37 pm
Hope George gets to know his real parents  :ick:

Camzilla is the royal matress and allows Chuck gayness


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on August 12, 2013, 08:51:16 pm

  Hence she is called his "beard".


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: mysha on August 12, 2013, 10:25:29 pm
 lmao other than an insult to other beard owners........... :laugh:


Title: Re: Camilla pushed as Grandmother in Hello Article. Gross
Post by: Tatiana on August 12, 2013, 11:04:08 pm
 :laugh: :*butt*:


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 28, 2014, 07:58:47 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2708530/Camilla-shows-childcare-skills-helps-tot-hat-Charles-looks-interested-beer.html

Now the Daily Mail says Camilla has six grandchildren one a future King. next there will be an article about how Camilla gave birth to Prince William in 1982. Sycophancy knows no limits.

So is Charles the grandparent of six including his former fellow officer's grandchildren?


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: meememe on July 28, 2014, 10:08:45 pm
In one sense - yes - but biologically no.

My maternal biological grandfather died before I was born and my grandmother had remarried. Her second husband was therefore the man I knew as Pop on my mother's side and he was the 'grandfather' I think of - because he was there, he was the one who was actually able to give me cuddles, play with me, build me toys and do the 'grandfather' things with me.

The other man - the one in the photos with my mother as a child - is a photo - a man I know about through my mother and grandmother and their stories of him but in reality Pop is my 'step-grandfather'. He is the one I love through real knowledge while the other I never knew. Other people's stories don't replace the bed-time stories, the kicking the ball around in the backyard, the building sandcastles on the beach - that was my step-grandfather.

To George, Camilla is the same - she is the one who is there. To George, Camilla will be the 'flesh and blood' real person who is sees when he sees Grandpa Charles. Will he know about Diana - of course he will but in reality she will be a photo, a video, a story - no more real to him than The Queen Mum, or any other ancestor whereas Camilla will be the person he will remember as a touchable person.

As for Charles' relationship with his step-grandchildren - there is the fact that they have a living other grandfather but that doesn't take away the position Charles is in either - in reality they have three grandfathers - two biological and one via marriage.

Given the huge number of broken families that then see new marriages and step-parents and grandparents it is churlish to deny that the step-relationship exists and can be as real or even more real than the one with the biological grandparent (or even parent - where many times kids have a better relationship with the step-parent than with the biological one - not always but sometimes).

Biology is just that - biology but reality is different - it is the flesh and blood and the emotions of real contact.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Alexandrine on July 28, 2014, 11:44:06 pm
^I'm not so sure as I have the same unfortunate experience (not knowing a grandparent) but it worked out very differently. My grandmother married her second husband before I was born, however, I didn't have with him the kind of relationship you mention. Without entering in personal details it's all about how your parents connect with the step grandparent.

IMO for George the Midds will be his closest grandparents. Charles the distant grandfather and Camilla that person who is sometimes with him.

On the other hand I don't Sandy's comment was about their personal relationship but how the media wants to portray Camilla as the bestest grandmother of all time.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 29, 2014, 12:55:46 am
In one sense - yes - but biologically no.

My maternal biological grandfather died before I was born and my grandmother had remarried. Her second husband was therefore the man I knew as Pop on my mother's side and he was the 'grandfather' I think of - because he was there, he was the one who was actually able to give me cuddles, play with me, build me toys and do the 'grandfather' things with me.

The other man - the one in the photos with my mother as a child - is a photo - a man I know about through my mother and grandmother and their stories of him but in reality Pop is my 'step-grandfather'. He is the one I love through real knowledge while the other I never knew. Other people's stories don't replace the bed-time stories, the kicking the ball around in the backyard, the building sandcastles on the beach - that was my step-grandfather.

To George, Camilla is the same - she is the one who is there. To George, Camilla will be the 'flesh and blood' real person who is sees when he sees Grandpa Charles. Will he know about Diana - of course he will but in reality she will be a photo, a video, a story - no more real to him than The Queen Mum, or any other ancestor whereas Camilla will be the person he will remember as a touchable person.

As for Charles' relationship with his step-grandchildren - there is the fact that they have a living other grandfather but that doesn't take away the position Charles is in either - in reality they have three grandfathers - two biological and one via marriage.

Given the huge number of broken families that then see new marriages and step-parents and grandparents it is churlish to deny that the step-relationship exists and can be as real or even more real than the one with the biological grandparent (or even parent - where many times kids have a better relationship with the step-parent than with the biological one - not always but sometimes).

Biology is just that - biology but reality is different - it is the flesh and blood and the emotions of real contact.

What Camilla will be to George is subject to speculation. WIlliam, Kate and Harry will make sure George knows about his grandmother Diana and George won't think that Camilla can "replace" Diana as his grandmother. Some children never met their grandparents but that does not mean they will never know about them and grandparents are "interchangeable" and Granddad's second wife is the "same" as the deceased grandmother.

The step relationship exists but the point is I find it crass that the Daily Mail lumps George in with her five grandchildren. Camilla is not the grandmother of a future King. Diana is and Camilla can never replace Diana in that sense. Of course she will visit George but it does not mean that Diana should be airbrushed though Charles and Camilla would probably want it so. Charles never once mentioned Diana as being the grandmother or talked about "their" grandson. 

I think what the DM is doing IS churlish and tacky. Nobody is denying Camilla is part of the family but it is wrong on many levels to call Camilla the "grandmother".

Talking about one's personal experiences is not the same as the royal family's situation. Camilla never raised WIlliam or Harry and how close they are is subject to speculation.

If this is not "churlish" then how come Charles is not said to be the grandfather of six children? It is immaterial if the grandparent is alive or dead. Diana is the grandmother as much as APB is the grandfather of Laura and Tom's children. So if APB passes on it would be "OK" for Charles to replace him. I don't think so.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 29, 2014, 01:02:24 am
^I'm not so sure as I have the same unfortunate experience (not knowing a grandparent) but it worked out very differently. My grandmother married her second husband before I was born, however, I didn't have with him the kind of relationship you mention. Without entering in personal details it's all about how your parents connect with the step grandparent.

IMO for George the Midds will be his closest grandparents. Charles the distant grandfather and Camilla that person who is sometimes with him.

On the other hand I don't Sandy's comment was about their personal relationship but how the media wants to portray Camilla as the bestest grandmother of all time.

That's exactly what I'm saying! I don't know why the DM is all in a frenzy to airbrush Diana. Maybe it's not coincidental that Tom Parker Bowles has a job on the Daily Mail.

Another bad part of this is that Camilla loathed Diana so there may be some satisfaction on Camilla's part to airbrush and take over being a future King's "grandmother."  I think whoever is spinning Camilla as grandmother of George is at the very least, tactless.

Charles is getting what he wants--the woman is going to be Queen Consort. So why the rush to push Camilla as a "warm and fuzzy" grandmother to George.

I somehow don't think William and Harry think of her as a "substitute" for their mother. I think George will spend most of his time with the Middletons and Harry's future children will be closer to his wife's parents  than C and C.



Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Kuei Fei on July 29, 2014, 01:53:06 am
If I were Camilla I would be very, very careful; if she is crowned Queen, it would in fact likely not cause open *despise* or rebellion (as in times past), but it could cause dissension among aristocrats, the very aristocracy that the RF needs to maintain a smooth running monarchy. A mistress crowned Queen hasn't happened since the day of Anne Boleyn (as far as I believe) and that caused horrendous dissension among women (wives) who *despise* a mistress triumphant. As for Diana, her problems are likely over, mainly since she's dead and buried on Althorp estate and resting in peace, no matter what is said about her. Even if Camilla is crowned Queen Consort, there will always be people who will believe her to be a home-wrecking usurper who successfully destroyed a marriage.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: CathyJane on July 29, 2014, 02:56:29 am
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: cate1949 on July 29, 2014, 03:27:31 am
those same aristocrats helped Charles conduct his affair with Camilla - let the two of them use their homes for trysts etc - little late for them to be so horrified by Camilla becoming Queen.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Jane23 on July 29, 2014, 10:35:07 am
^ I was about to come here and say that ... besides ... Camilla is one of them so ... as for George and Camilla ... for the love of Barack Obama she is his step grandmother , he is her grandchild through marriage seriously Di died 17 Years ago people who were born then have now boyfriends/girlfriends and are thinking of University open rebellion?  :bored:


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Kuei Fei on July 29, 2014, 12:40:37 pm
I dunno; Camilla is more high level gentry and while the RF wished her well as a friend, they didn't want her as one of their own in the position of direct in-law. If she had been wanted, it would have been her marrying in St. Paul's, but even Charles wanted 'better' for his future spud in regards to lineage.

She's not of the high aristocracy and I think the aristocrats thought of her as good as a plaything, but not as a wife for one of their heirs. She married a nice enough man Andrew Parker-Bowels, but even he didn't think of her as good enough to even try to be faithful to. What a mess of a life is hers.

The aristocrats might not be open in their dislike or dissension, but the reality is, Camilla becoming Queen will mean they will have to work ten times as hard to keep the Windsors credible. With Camilla as Princess Consort, they can work on WK and Harry, while Camilla avoids more drama.

It's likely difficult enough to bash Diana, when ironically, Diana was one of their own (high nobs and connections) and yet, they had to bash her (Diana) as part of the job in order to sell Camilla as appealing to the public and it's continued with the need to promote Kate while bashing the aristos (who they are).

So yeah, I think there's likely a lot of resentment towards Camilla and it'll just tick them off even more if Charles orders them to campaign for Camilla.

those same aristocrats helped Charles conduct his affair with Camilla - let the two of them use their homes for trysts etc - little late for them to be so horrified by Camilla becoming Queen.

Yes, but then Camilla was a mistress, not a wife and future Queen Consort; I think they felt for Camilla condescension and even when Camilla was openly Charles' companion, she (Camilla) was subjected to protocol by these erstwhile 'friends' and still put Camilla in her real place in the pecking order (at the time). At that one wedding, Camilla was not seated in the front, or even second row, but several rows behind and it sent a message. No matter how much Charles doted on her, no matter how many trysts they arranged, she was still not and would never (at that point as thought) would be royalty.

Camilla was no threat to the established order of things, but once a mistress becomes a wife and that example is set, the mistress tossing the wife aside and usurping the position of wife, in the royal world where hierarchy is everything, it causes an upset in a previously smooth running society. Second, no matter however irritating Diana was, she kind of reinforced propriety by not having Camilla's past, that required the bashing of the very system that the aristocrats are struggling to uphold, mainly in that these women have daughters they would like to see married and not have their own marriages wrecked.

If Camilla hadn't meddled in the marriage and undermined the health of the Waleses, the monarchy would be a lot more stable and a lot more solid and Kate would not be married to Prince William, William would be married to one of their daughters or in fact, married to someone connected and with zero baggage. It wasn't just about Camilla, but about the fact that it undermined the (kind of) tradition that higher up women who grow up with a lot of restrictions would have a shot at a 'good match' that they would in fact be trained for. Camilla paved the way for Kate and other messed up princesses.

If Camilla had remained a mistress, Charles would in fact not be so distracted making her accepted that he ignored his sons and the look on Camilla's face as WK were married, was fairly priceless; for once she (Camilla) was looking around afraid and the lack of peace in the Windsor household is the price that Camilla should pay until the day she dies for the havoc she wrought. Camilla wasn't thinking about the monarchy when she messed with Charles (even before marriage she was interfering in his romantic life) and decided she wanted the tiara and title along with the ring.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 29, 2014, 02:39:43 pm
KF, Excellent analysis.

That's what I always thought that it was not that Charles just slept with her but that she got greedy and was avid for the perks and privileges and kowtowing that came to her as the mistress and later as royal wife.  Charles own predecessors (or some) had mistresses but the mistresses never trashed the wife, undermined her or took her place. A mistress of Edward VII when Prince of Wales would never have dared to take possible brides to be under her wing and "befriend" them or help the Prince choose a "mouse." Camilla also took over hostessing duties while Diana was still married to Charles. She got where she is today by ruthless behavior--they show her with little babies but it took a cold woman to do what she did to Diana. And there were small children in the Wales household when she and Charles were involved with each other.

I do think Camilla take pleasure in the articles by some fawning writers calling her the grandmother of a royal baby. It must have irked her that Charles did not choose her as suitable to have his royal children. This way she can cackle over seeing Diana airbrushed out and not mentioned while she is touted as this sweet little old lady who does not know the difference between her step grandchild and her own flesh and blood grandchildren. And George will love her and since Diana is not around she's the only grandmother he'll know, blablabla

She did not respect Diana in life and it is evident that she still disrespects her.

Charles was and is weak morally and is not man enough to have made the mother of his sons non-negotiable.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Jane23 on July 29, 2014, 04:50:10 pm
^ You mean the woman who made him look like a monster and did books and live tv interviews behind his back to destroy him?

BASHIR: Do you think the Prince of Wales will ever be King?

DIANA: I don't think any of us know the answer to that. And obviously it's a question that's in everybody's head. But who knows, who knows what fate will produce, who knows what circumstances will provoke?

BASHIR: But you would know him better than most people. Do you think he would wish to be King?

DIANA: There was always conflict on that subject with him when we discussed it, and I understood that conflict, because it's a very demanding role, being Prince of Wales, but it's an equally more demanding role being King.

And being Prince of Wales produces more freedom now, and being King would be a little bit more suffocating. And because I know the character I would think that the top job, as I call it, would bring enormous limitations to him, and I don't know whether he could adapt to that.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 29, 2014, 04:54:17 pm
And you mean the man who trashed his wife in 1994 via his authorized biographer. He never ever said he loved Diana. Diana did say she loved Charles.

If you look at the interview, Diana said the "top job" would put limitations on Charles. And yes, even writers agree with her to this day since Charles would not have the same freedom to speak out as he does now when he gets the top job.

And how about a man who would not give up the other woman despite his young wife's pleas. And the other woman playing hostess in the wife's home

George would not be here today if it were not for Diana.

Charles and Camilla have a lot to answer for.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Jane23 on July 29, 2014, 05:53:36 pm
^ Correction Camilla played hostess in Chuck's home which he payed for !!! While Di was away doing Hewitt !!! Another correction The Prince of Wales never wrote a book like his ex did he never directly spoke to the writer of the book like his ex did he allowed him access after Di's book in 1992 which she cooperated with to destroy him!!! The man had every right to defend himself after his wife got nasty with him first in 1992 !!!


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: sandy on July 29, 2014, 07:22:15 pm
Oh please you mean Diana was just chattel and not his wife? Of course the home was hers too. This is not the middle ages. Maybe he kept her in the garage since it was "his" home.

Charles had an authorized biographer Jonathan Dimbleby who had full access to Charles, his friends, Charles letters and diaries. He was Charles' Morton. Diaan did not write a book either--she answered questions that Morton had sent her. Morton was her authorized biographer. Same thing. Charles BTW even  sent some of his mother's papers to Dimbleby by mistake which got his mother upset. Charles got even with his parents since a lot of his vitriol was directed at them.

Hewitt never usurped Charles place as official host at any royal residence. Charles pushy mistress sat down in Diana's chair and usurped Diana's role as hostess.

Nobody "destroyed" Charles. His own self destructive instincts hurt him and he has shot himself in the foot many a time.

Diana said she loved Charles but Charles really trashed her via Dimbleby not one word about loving the mother of his sons.

Diana had to contend with Charles' pals leaking stories about her for years including Camilla going to Stuart Higgins with her side. The Morton book was a defense against Camilla and Charles' pals putting out nasty stories about her. But I suppose she should have just put up with it in your viewpoint Jane. There are also stories of public put downs of Diana by Charles--Jephson relates an example of one such episode.

Charles was no saint.

Charles was doing Camilla in the Highgrove gardens right below the second floor window where his wife and sons slept.  And Charles had his friends and servants lie about his whereabouts to Diana.

Diana had every right to defend herself from the malignant stories about her leaked by Charles pals including the "saintly" Camilla Parker Bowles.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Stephanie on July 31, 2014, 07:30:55 pm
^
 :gogirl:
Camzilla is a ruthless greedy homewrecker who has Chuck by the balls completely.
The Tampon Tapes revealed everything there is to know about their "relationship".


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on July 31, 2014, 07:38:31 pm
http://www.textfiles.com/phreak/camilla.txt :ick: :stop: :nervous:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Alexandrine on July 31, 2014, 07:39:01 pm
I separated this lot of comments from the news thread and merged it with a very similar thread that already existed. If someone has a better idea for the title please tell me.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on July 31, 2014, 08:10:39 pm
Legally Cammila would be George's Step Grandmother, but no one bothers with writing or saying the 'step' part because as in most families the deceased are just that - deceased.  It doesn't mean the children don't learn all about a natural Grandparent, but that's my point, they 'get to know about them, they do not actually get to know them and in my opinion it's who the children come to love that will decide who is the love grandparent.

It's not really about who's right and who's wrong or anything so complicated.  It's just children - and if they see someone's bad wolf as loving, they will love despite what anyone thinks.  It's nature.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Alexandrine on July 31, 2014, 11:03:11 pm
^ Though I agree with you, there are two separate issue. What the press/palace PR wants to sell and what goes inside the family.

It's gross that they play how such a good grandma Camilla will be to George. In their private lives maybe she is pretty close to him, who knows. Maybe she will see him once a year. But there is no need to use this for PR.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 01, 2014, 12:01:36 am
Being realistic, I think Camilla has a tolerance at worse, fondness at best for William and Harry, but thing is, her own kids will come first to her. She even moved her father into Clarence House, moved her two bio kids in, so I don't think she's going to end up really supporting WH all that much.

It could be that Camilla resents how secure William and Harry's futures are and it could well be that she's encouraged her step-kids to get the most out of the newly married time with Charles since once CHarles is gone, that connection is gone and Camilla will be at the mercy of William and Harry.

So chances are Camilla is more interested in her own survival and security moreso (as often happens) than that of the bio kids.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 01, 2014, 01:34:18 am
I think Camilla gets a thrill at being pushed hard in the media as George's grandmother. After all her own grandchildren will never be royals--the eldest won't be a monarch and perhaps it was irksome to her she was rejected by Charles to be the mother of his children. Now that Diana is gone, she can play this for all it's worth. Her own grandchildren are not mentioned in the fawning articles in the DM. She is shown as this sweet little old lady who dotes on children and of course thinks of her "grandson" when she goes places and gets him a toy. What about the five grandchildren she has via her marriage to APB? It seems that the opposite is true, instead of including her own grandchildren she is pushed as the grandmother of Diana's grandson. I think that perhaps if this is pushed enough those unenlightened will really think the woman is the grandmother of a royal baby. I think she must be cackling in glee at her latest "victory" over Diana. I don't think she is a particularly nice or kind woman and I hope George does not spend much time with her.

It is odd that if her own children come first (they are provided for by Charles) she never mentions nor do her promotional newspaper the DM mention them. Tom may get so frustrated we will probably see a story by him or about him sometime soon. Not so coincidentally he is a columnist for the DM.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CathyJane on August 01, 2014, 03:19:49 am
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Sandy!!


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 01, 2014, 06:13:49 am
 I think her influence resulted in William and Harry leading a more old fashioned aristocratic life rather than one that is more modern. After university chances are William might have been more dutiful and less conflicted. His mother regrettably died right when he was at a crossroads in his life. So instead of a wider experience and broadened perspective, they ended up closing in and once both were locked in, they lost that initiative to end up having a more cosmopolitan life that didn't include bars or night clubs in exotic locals in the tropics. Camilla, like most climbers, prefer to regress to more old fashioned ways of the society they push themselves into rather than more modern ones.

I separated this lot of comments from the news thread and merged it with a very similar thread that already existed. If someone has a better idea for the title please tell me.

Thank you thank you thank you! I was part of the off topic brigade (I submit to your future spankies Alexandrine) and I I am so glad you did this.

Camilla is secure, now, the 'grandmother' of the future king, but that does not mean she will remain so after Charles pops. She's only where she is because of Charles. Once Charles is gone, she will no longer have any bio connection, in that set, bio is EVERYTHING! So Camilla will be pensioned off and she'll be able to likely enjoy a quiet life, unless William and Harry decide to get fiendish and find some technicality that will enable them to strip her of everything. I don't think William and Harry will pass up a chance to put Camilla back in the shadows and being grandmother is nothing, since Camilla isn't mother of William and Harry in a lineal sense and if I were Camilla, I would be very afraid.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 01, 2014, 06:30:18 am
I don't think H and W will punish Camilla but they will not reward her either - my bet is she will be sent to Raymill and that will be that.  No invites to family celebrations etc.  Bet we never see her on the balcony again after PC passes. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 01, 2014, 06:40:46 am
Supposedly William and Camilla talked in private, after which Camilla stated that she needed a drink.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 01, 2014, 09:59:19 am
^ Actually that was the very first meeting (or at least the first time she was presented to him as daddy's partner) of course she was nervous but hey hve become close after that ... in fact after she got introduced to Harry they all went to Greece (1999) so that tells us the introduction with Will and Harry was a successes or they wouldn't all go on vacation together ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 01, 2014, 11:53:16 am
yes it is a relationship in progress and if you look at it in one point in time that might not reflect what it is now.  However - I do recall many rumors when she first moved into Clarence House that there was some tensions and fights with Harry and Will.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 01, 2014, 12:16:26 pm
Supposedly William and Camilla talked in private, after which Camilla stated that she needed a drink.

That was broadcast all over the world so there was nothing private about it since Charles chose to use William as part of his campaign to try to get Camilla accepted. It as tacky and tasteless to use William and then Harry. There were rumors that William had met her before in any case.

Everybody knew what Camilla said thanks to Charles spinners (that is if she said it).

It is amazing that if a grandparent dies someone has to replace him or her. So how come since Frances Shand Kydd died Raine Spencer did not get to be great grandmother of George if step great grandparents or step grandparents can morph into grandparents. It seems to just apply to Camilla. And since Diana's grandmother Cynthia passed on how come Barbara Cartland did not go from step grandmother to grandmother of Diana.

This is just another tacky PR attempt by spin doctors.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 01, 2014, 01:11:58 pm
yes it is a relationship in progress and if you look at it in one point in time that might not reflect what it is now.  However - I do recall many rumors when she first moved into Clarence House that there was some tensions and fights with Harry and Will.

I'm sure there was; Camilla moved her spud in, along with her father, and it had to have caused tension and fighting. The circumstances exacerbated it; I think W&H agreed to find Camilla acceptable as a mistress and 'official' companion to their father, but wife/step-mother/future Consort is something else. No former mistress ever ends up fitting in well after becoming a wife, the dynamics are just too weirded out and it's very, very strange.

Camilla going from shadow to being known is enough of a shock, but in the carefully ordered world of aristocracy/royalty, mistress to wife is something else. Camilla upset the status quo enough by interfering in the marriage, by undermining (publicly and privately) Diana's image (and preventing her from getting a lot of needed help as a result), then spending time bashing the wife, hostessing in the marital home, and then spending the rest of her time pushing Charles to promote her, squandering his own (Charles squandering his own) goodwill among the public. Even worse, a mistress threw off HRH the Princess of Wales and someone who was slated to be Queen Consort and upended the entire system that they were bred for.

Throw in losing their father's complete attention and such, I can only imagine how angry they must feel.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 01, 2014, 03:20:20 pm
let us hope that they are not feeling angry because angry + helpless to change the situation translates into drugs and alcohol.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 01, 2014, 05:34:31 pm
I am sure the relationship between Cam and the boys wasn't easy at first it seems it was a work in progress that ended up a successes ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CarryingOn on August 01, 2014, 08:35:23 pm
More like toleration, I'm sure. Life isn't a fairytale and most children, even if they're grown adults, have a hard time accepting their step-fathers and mothers who didn't come by way of the S.S. Cheaters, let alone their parents mistresses. Don't be fooled by smiling faces, a smile means nothing. Most people just learn to cope and tolerate because they can't change the situation, and everyone's coping mechanism is different. That's life too, though. There's a lot of things we can control but the things we can't, we just learn to accept and cope with but that in no way means and/or equates to us being happy about the situation and liking it.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 01, 2014, 09:06:14 pm
^ Guess what they don't have to love her their father does !!! Like if Di had lived to remarry would they really "love" the man? Like you said they wouldn't !!! So I don't get it why it is even an issue I am sure for the times they see each other they get along just fine !!! Other than that I don't like the word "toleration" Cam is a charming woman who has a lot of interest in common with the Royals so I am sure the boys like her just fine ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 01, 2014, 09:56:24 pm
Diana is dead so there is no issue about her remarrying. I don't see it as a love fest. I don't see Camilla as a "charming" woman--I see her as a self centered woman who deliberately in her own ambitions undermined another woman. Maybe her alleged "charm" eludes William and Harry as well. They are grown ups and probably don't spend all that much time with her in any event.A "charming" woman would not be ruthless and a "charming woman" would have backed off once Charles and Diana got engaged. She's as charming as a crocodile as far as I'm concerned.

Royal mistresses generally knew their places. Camilla usurped and undermined the wife very deliberately. I doubt the Queen is exactly happy with Charles choice and how Camilla got into the royal family. Camilla did not have enough in common with the royals for the Queen Mother to want C and C to marry in her lifetime.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 01, 2014, 10:54:20 pm
i have a lot of compassion for Camilla. after all - she was in love with Charles all her life. and i'm sure that she didn't become his wife because the queen mother would have never accepted her. if love between them was so strong for so many years - it's sad that they didnt get together in the first place. there wouldn't jave been William nor Harry, Charles would have still been unpopular but not for bwing a jurk to his wife. and at least peoplewould have admired him for following his heart.

however, even if it's the love ofyour life - if your man marries another woman: you should back off once and for all. if a man wants you he should put a ring on it, as cliche as it sounds. if he doesn't, you should respect the Holy Matrimony and the family which is started and Back Off. but she didn't. she never stopped being in a relationship with Charles and never gave Charles a chance to fall in love with Diana and try and work on their marriage.

so, if I was on Harry's or William's place, there'll always be some form of resentment towards Camilla because she was occupying the place of the wife in a marriage in which she was on a much lower level in the family hierarchy. the level of a mistress.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 01, 2014, 11:09:41 pm
^ well said


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 02, 2014, 01:35:35 am
i have a lot of compassion for Camilla. after all - she was in love with Charles all her life. and i'm sure that she didn't become his wife because the queen mother would have never accepted her. if love between them was so strong for so many years - it's sad that they didnt get together in the first place. there wouldn't jave been William nor Harry, Charles would have still been unpopular but not for bwing a jurk to his wife. and at least peoplewould have admired him for following his heart.

however, even if it's the love ofyour life - if your man marries another woman: you should back off once and for all. if a man wants you he should put a ring on it, as cliche as it sounds. if he doesn't, you should respect the Holy Matrimony and the family which is started and Back Off. but she didn't. she never stopped being in a relationship with Charles and never gave Charles a chance to fall in love with Diana and try and work on their marriage.

so, if I was on Harry's or William's place, there'll always be some form of resentment towards Camilla because she was occupying the place of the wife in a marriage in which she was on a much lower level in the family hierarchy. the level of a mistress.

Good analysis! But from what I read Camilla was in love with Andrew Parker Bowles and tenaciously stayed in the relationship with him from 1966 until he finally proposed and they married in 1973. They cheated on each other throughout the dating years but she was bent on marrying him. Charles was besotted with Camilla but told his biographer he was not "ready" to marry and did not even tell Camilla to wait for him when he went to sea.  He would never know if he had told her to wait she would have dropped APB and waited for him. At that point Charles should have accepted that he made this call and not looked back. But his life took a bad turn when he felt entitled to have a relationship with her and it was all downhill. He was similarly involved with Lady Dale Tryon--he rejected her and would not see the dying Tryon.

I don't think Charles ever intended to marry Camilla but Diana was very hurt by his not dropping the other woman and would not put up with it. Camilla won by default more or less.

Considering how Charles did not fight to marry Camilla in the early seventies and treated her as mistress material and did not choose her to marry and have his  heirs, I don't see this as a great love story. Camilla would not give up Charles and a decent woman would have backed off.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 02, 2014, 05:46:48 am
I think I read somewhere that Charles himself didn't see Camilla to be fit for a Queen consort which clearly shows how class minded /  narrow minded he is. However even in this case I blame Camilla. If a man think it's ok to disrespect you and you're ok with it then it's not his fault that he's a jerk. It's Camilla's for alowing it. And she even went so far as to continue telling him how important, how handsome, how desirable he is, what a mitacle on Earth he is for being a prince.  She didn't have any dignity. Her husband was proud that his wife sleeps with a ptince which clearly shows that both Camilla and her ex husband were not very high on morale.

 A real woman would have drawn the line and not go into home wrecking mode. A real man would have understood and would have either backed down and focused his energy on creating a family with whomever is suitable for him or would have stepped up and married Camilla. But Charles did as any spoiled child would do -he wanted both. The irony in this story is that IMO Diana wasn't the kind of woman who would be ok with not having the whole heart of the man she is with and would have divorced him anyways.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 02, 2014, 07:01:52 am
You're right; as I mentioned earlier, the RF assembled to Camilla's wedding and her reception and toasted her, but still condescended in that she was seen as a nice girl, but not good enough. Nice to her, as long as she stays in her place, the inferior place of a member of the gentry they condescend to honor with their presence. Yet, they kept the door shut on her if it meant a marriage to Charles. I know that the RF, upon seeing Diana, swung the door wide open and greeted her with eager open arms to welcome her as a childhood friend and member of the RF and Princess of Wales, to become Queen Consort. That HAD to have galled Camilla more than once, that this young girl was being greeted to welcomingly and openly and respectfully. Then married and off to a new life.

In compassion to Camilla, no woman likes to be the one who was diddled and discarded, but reality has shown me that unless you respect yourself, you'll spend much of your life wondering if things might have been different, if only........

Soon though, Camilla took what opening she could to avoid at least being forgotten, but it ate away at her heart to still be a dirty little secret and few women can resist the resentment that seeps in. A few words here and there and then she ends up back in, intially wanting just friendship, but soon is accused on a regular basis. Then after a while the old flame is sparked and at some point, Camilla decides, to heck with being decent and Charles is likely tired of the dramatics (however justified, they get wearisome) and so Camilla gets in faster. Then Camilla starts lording it around Highgrove, lording it around the social supper circuit, and she spends her time being pampered by Charles and enjoys the steamy encounters and the thrill of the risk.

Then the wife blasts it all over the papers and so Camilla retreats, but ends up forced into a divorce. With no husband and no way to support herself, she gets her lover to supply her on a regular basis with funds to use to take care of herself (like all past royal mistresses) and lives fairly well and learns to handle the backlash.

Yet, the wife (now ex) dies and she's forced into retreat. After a few years she convinces the idiot lover to make her an 'honest woman' (haha) and she's married. She has luxury, comfort, title, standing, deference, but alas, the marriage is only morganatic. She might become Queen, but the courtiers who resent the fact that she's only making things harder for them (PR) is a worry, along with the fact that she will face the wrath of the legitimate sons of her lover. The eldest, who will be her future Sovereign and someone she will have to rely on to be generous at the end of Charles' life. The minute Charles is gone, even if she has any kind of title, she is at risk to lose pretty much everything and she knows it. I'd feel pity if she weren't such a homewrecker. History is littered with examples of former mistresses suffering badly upon their lover's deaths at the hands of irate heirs.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 02, 2014, 12:26:16 pm
I think Camilla is still lording over everybody--it is no accident that the DM and other tabs are calling her George's grandmother and not mentioning even her own grandchildren.

Diana did not force the divorce of C and C. Charles did. Morton's book never said C and C were lovers just "friends" though one could read between the lines.

The nail in the coffin was Charles naming Camilla as his mistress--enraging her father and then the husband divorcing her. He was stuck with her. He should have kept his mouth shut.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 02, 2014, 01:04:26 pm
Charles really is an idiot.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: lothwen on August 02, 2014, 02:57:23 pm
After reading through some of the posts on this thread, this is the consensus I've come up with:



Prince George, and all future children of William and Kate, as well as any children of Harry and his future wife, should *despise* Camilla, and shun her whenever they get the chance.  They should also do the same for Charles.  After all, the two of them ruined Diana's life.  Nevermind that Diana was dead long before any of these kids were born, and they will never have  any type of relationship with her.  Nope, they still need to get revenge on her behalf.


Better yet, they should have Charles and Camilla thrown in the Tower of London, and on special holidays, have them tied up in the stocks so people can come and throw rotten fruit at them.  Would that make you all feel better?

For goodness sakes, they had an affair.  It was wrong, and it devastated a tamily and a marriage.  A marriage, by the way, where both partners were unfaithful.  We can get into a debate about who cheated first, but the fact still remains that neither Charles nor Diana was faithful.  And the marriage was over in 1996.  It's been almost 20 years. 

In the end, it is up to William to decide if he wants to raise his children with having Camilla as "grandma."  It's not up to you or me.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 02, 2014, 03:05:59 pm
This isn't just a marriage; Camilla and Charles put a horrendous amount of work on the backs of the courtiers to promote the Charles/Camilla match and that wrecked marriage meant that Kate (and Mette-Marit and Sofia/Snakey of Sweden) had an 'in' and the thing is, the aristocrats of Britain have had to bash one of their own (high aristocracy) in order to promote Camilla and Charles and make it all 'okay.' It'll never be okay. If not for Camilla, Charles, and Diana being driven out of her own marital home, I am certain that decent women would have a chance with a prince. Camilla and Charles are cited as a love match, mainly because Camilla isn't a high level aristocrat and that aristocratic and royal marriages will never work, so princes should be allowed to marry leeches and tarts.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 02, 2014, 09:12:44 pm
I agree KF. It was not just a matter of an extramarital affair. Camilla had ambitions and wanted to oust Diana and she succeeded. Charles was so wishy washy and had a skewed moral outlook, she succeeded.

I doubt William and Harry will consider Camilla the "grandmother". I doubt that William and Kate and George see much of Camilla to begin with. George's grandmother figure will be Carole and he will grow up being proud that he is Diana's grandson.


After reading through some of the posts on this thread, this is the consensus I've come up with:



Prince George, and all future children of William and Kate, as well as any children of Harry and his future wife, should *despise* Camilla, and shun her whenever they get the chance.  They should also do the same for Charles.  After all, the two of them ruined Diana's life.  Nevermind that Diana was dead long before any of these kids were born, and they will never have  any type of relationship with her.  Nope, they still need to get revenge on her behalf.


Better yet, they should have Charles and Camilla thrown in the Tower of London, and on special holidays, have them tied up in the stocks so people can come and throw rotten fruit at them.  Would that make you all feel better?

For goodness sakes, they had an affair.  It was wrong, and it devastated a tamily and a marriage.  A marriage, by the way, where both partners were unfaithful.  We can get into a debate about who cheated first, but the fact still remains that neither Charles nor Diana was faithful.  And the marriage was over in 1996.  It's been almost 20 years.  

In the end, it is up to William to decide if he wants to raise his children with having Camilla as "grandma."  It's not up to you or me.

Well on the other side of the coin, I see comments in the tabs and some threads that it is "OK" for Camilla to call herself Grandmother of George or have this sort of PR out and about. Even her own five grandchildren are not mentioned, it seems that she has only 1 grandchild, Prince George--those who don't do much reading about the royals could very well assume George is her grandson. Diana is being airbrushed out but I do see comments that it is "OK" for Camillla to be grandmother because Diana is dead. I see much vitriol about Diana even being mentioned and indeed, red arrows are placed on comments that say Diana is George's grandmother (which is a fact).

It was more than an affair. Camilla went beyond just sleeping with Charles. She had ambitions for herself and went about undermining the wife and even getting to take the wife's place at the dinner table and play hostess. Charles made it clear to Diana that he resented her and there are reports from eyewitnesses that he put her down even in public. He rejected her coldly. Had he been a real husband I doubt Diana would have looked at another man. It was well she had the two heirs now back to Camilla he went. I don't think Camilla was ever really out of the picture during all the years C and D were married. She made sure she leaked stories to the Sun Editor giving her side. She had total contempt for Diana.

It is very telling that she apparently thought it OK to walk into Diana's Memorial service until public opinion stopped her.

Charles apparently was in such a thrall to her he put her ahead of everything else.

I do think it par for the course that these Camilla is George's grandma are being placed in the DM and other sources.

It's like mother like son. Tom Parker Bowles leaves out his father on the dust jackets of his cooking books and refers to himself as the son of the Duchess of Cornwall and the stepson of the Prince of Wales. No mention of the person who brought him into the world. Then Camilla does not mention the "ordinary" grandchildren, she only buys presents for her "grandson" (not mentioning that she has three grandsons and two granddaughters of her own). I think it irked Camilla that Charles did not select her to have his royal children. Well now with Diana gone, she can claim grandmother hood and flaunt it via her PR. I don't think she is a nice woman and never will.

Lothwen you are putting this in black and white not shades of gray. It was not a matter of Diana or Charles cheating first. Charles always cheated first going into the marriage knowing he preferred Camilla to Diana and not putting all his cards on the table to Diana before he proposed. He wanted heirs and married Diana for expediency's sake.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: HennyPenny on August 03, 2014, 02:18:33 am
You're right; as I mentioned earlier, the RF assembled to Camilla's wedding and her reception and toasted her, but still condescended in that she was seen as a nice girl, but not good enough. Nice to her, as long as she stays in her place, the inferior place of a member of the gentry they condescend to honor with their presence. Yet, they kept the door shut on her if it meant a marriage to Charles. I know that the RF, upon seeing Diana, swung the door wide open and greeted her with eager open arms to welcome her as a childhood friend and member of the RF and Princess of Wales, to become Queen Consort. That HAD to have galled Camilla more than once, that this young girl was being greeted to welcomingly and openly and respectfully. Then married and off to a new life.

In compassion to Camilla, no woman likes to be the one who was diddled and discarded, but reality has shown me that unless you respect yourself, you'll spend much of your life wondering if things might have been different, if only........

Soon though, Camilla took what opening she could to avoid at least being forgotten, but it ate away at her heart to still be a dirty little secret and few women can resist the resentment that seeps in. A few words here and there and then she ends up back in, intially wanting just friendship, but soon is accused on a regular basis. Then after a while the old flame is sparked and at some point, Camilla decides, to heck with being decent and Charles is likely tired of the dramatics (however justified, they get wearisome) and so Camilla gets in faster. Then Camilla starts lording it around Highgrove, lording it around the social supper circuit, and she spends her time being pampered by Charles and enjoys the steamy encounters and the thrill of the risk.

Then the wife blasts it all over the papers and so Camilla retreats, but ends up forced into a divorce. With no husband and no way to support herself, she gets her lover to supply her on a regular basis with funds to use to take care of herself (like all past royal mistresses) and lives fairly well and learns to handle the backlash.

Yet, the wife (now ex) dies and she's forced into retreat. After a few years she convinces the idiot lover to make her an 'honest woman' (haha) and she's married. She has luxury, comfort, title, standing, deference, but alas, the marriage is only morganatic. She might become Queen, but the courtiers who resent the fact that she's only making things harder for them (PR) is a worry, along with the fact that she will face the wrath of the legitimate sons of her lover. The eldest, who will be her future Sovereign and someone she will have to rely on to be generous at the end of Charles' life. The minute Charles is gone, even if she has any kind of title, she is at risk to lose pretty much everything and she knows it. I'd feel pity if she weren't such a homewrecker. History is littered with examples of former mistresses suffering badly upon their lover's deaths at the hands of irate heirs.


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ITA!!!!! I would love to know what happened the Camilla'a ancestor Alice Keppel one Edward VII died.. Does anyone know ?


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 03, 2014, 02:44:57 am
Get a copy of the book Alice Keppel and her Daughters. It tells the whole story.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 03, 2014, 05:16:47 am
http://www.duchess-of-cornwall.co.uk/alice-keppel.htm

imo, Camilla deserves to be *despised* for usurping the place of the wife which was not hers. because of her Charles didn't treat Diana as the princess that she was. however, if Diana raised her sons to have a big heart, then they will be merciful to her, instead of rightfully vengeful.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 03, 2014, 05:20:21 am
Keppel was a beautiful woman and was renowned for her usefulness in giving the KIng political advice and communicating on his behalf with politicians.  After he died she was finished in British society and eventually with her husband lived her lif e out in Italy where she died of cirrhosis of the liver.

Her daughter Violet had a long term and tumultuous love affair with Vita Sackville West which has been documented in novels and film which caused much scandal which her mother tried to hide.  She later had a long term affair with an American Heiress.  She stayed in France and during the war was very helpful.  

Personally Keppel's life has little appealing about it to me - she had affairs with rich men because her husband could not make enough money to keep her in the manner she preferred.  Her husband also had affairs.  The two of them though seemed quite content with this state of affairs.  It often seems like her affection for Edward VII was a lot about the social position the relationship gave her.  She forced herself into his rooms as he lay dying - an terrible intrusion re: his wife.  And she ended up in exile after his death.  What about all of this was so appealing to Camilla is beyond me but she did seem to follow her great grandmothers path in many ways - her hostessing for Charles was something Keppel the elder also did.  


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 03, 2014, 06:07:30 am
Camilla upended a hierarchy that depends on the entire structure being placed on rank and 'place,' via birth mainly and marriage. Now, the RF despises divorce, I think mainly for reasons that Camilla epitomizes. Camilla didn't just usurp Diana's place and end up taking pretty much everything (and more), Camilla also dragged her brats along for the free ride, setting them up in Clarence House along with her enabling father. Now, frankly, it also upset the entire household stability that WH had and I frankly believe that a lot of courtiers are seething at taking orders from someone who by birth, was high gentry at best.

Nice, nothing wrong with that, but it likely makes them madder than Hades that they take orders from a former mistress and soldier's daughter. No matter her title now, she still has her past to haunt her on a regular basis.

After reading through some of the posts on this thread, this is the consensus I've come up with:

Prince George, and all future children of William and Kate, as well as any children of Harry and his future wife, should *despise* Camilla, and shun her whenever they get the chance.  They should also do the same for Charles.  After all, the two of them ruined Diana's life.  Nevermind that Diana was dead long before any of these kids were born, and they will never have  any type of relationship with her.  Nope, they still need to get revenge on her behalf.

Better yet, they should have Charles and Camilla thrown in the Tower of London, and on special holidays, have them tied up in the stocks so people can come and throw rotten fruit at them.  Would that make you all feel better?.

Exactly; let ostracism and disapproval be her cross for the rest of her rotten life. She broke up a marriage, not just of a man and woman, but a Prince and Princess of Wales, the future King and Queen Consort of Britain and the Commonwealth. She upended and entire system and usurped everything, also deliberately undermining the memory of the dead mother of the future King of Britain/Commonwealth. As far as I'm concerned, I am certain that if Camilla knew that Charles would never do a  PR campaign on her behalf if she stayed around, Camilla would have been gone a long time ago.

William's job became ten times as hard once Camilla came along, since he was pressured to marry 'well' and save the entire monarchy. Harder when he has his mother dredged up. He's done it himself, but C&C didn't make it easy for him to move on and Camilla had no business marrying Charles and taking over the household and also didn't have any business requiring that everyone around her accept her fully as Princess of Wales. Camilla can't stop grubbing for more and I am disgusted that we're supposed to view this as some grand love story. It's not, adultery is never romantic or a love story.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: HennyPenny on August 03, 2014, 07:56:12 am
Get a copy of the book Alice Keppel and her Daughters. It tells the whole story.
Thanks.... Sandy


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 03, 2014, 12:26:39 pm
Keppel was a beautiful woman and was renowned for her usefulness in giving the KIng political advice and communicating on his behalf with politicians.  After he died she was finished in British society and eventually with her husband lived her lif e out in Italy where she died of cirrhosis of the liver.

Her daughter Violet had a long term and tumultuous love affair with Vita Sackville West which has been documented in novels and film which caused much scandal which her mother tried to hide.  She later had a long term affair with an American Heiress.  She stayed in France and during the war was very helpful.  

Personally Keppel's life has little appealing about it to me - she had affairs with rich men because her husband could not make enough money to keep her in the manner she preferred.  Her husband also had affairs.  The two of them though seemed quite content with this state of affairs.  It often seems like her affection for Edward VII was a lot about the social position the relationship gave her.  She forced herself into his rooms as he lay dying - an terrible intrusion re: his wife.  And she ended up in exile after his death.  What about all of this was so appealing to Camilla is beyond me but she did seem to follow her great grandmothers path in many ways - her hostessing for Charles was something Keppel the elder also did.  

Keppel never sat down in Alexandra's chair and took over from her. Edward would bring Alice to various weekends away from the homes he shared with Alexandra. And bring a group of friends along so it would be "discreet" and she would be part of a group. Keppel and other mistresses of Edward would never have dared to undermine or deride the wife or covet what she had.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 03, 2014, 01:40:01 pm
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1288615.ece/alternates/s1227b/h_00200086.jpg
This is not a man who was forced to marry.
The Tampon Taps reveal Campon starting filthy talk,keeps Chuck from his work,complains about her son's birthday, whines about her husband who earns her bread getting suspicious, wants an ambulance strike to continue so that she can stick her wrinkly face in his life more often,and wants to read his speeches! :stop:
Wthout the Wrinkly Homewrecker C and D would have had a good shot at a happy marriage IMO.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 03, 2014, 03:00:16 pm
Oh and she even fed his ego in the Camillagate conversation by playing "jealous" of some women that Charles met. She knew how to push the right buttons.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 03, 2014, 04:14:39 pm
Nagging him to ask his friends to clear their homes so she could wait there for him( a married man with 2 kids) like a snake in the grass.
I have a strong suspicion she is pressuring him even today to build her up by trashing Diana.
There was a reason Chuck gave Diana a wedding band inscripted with I love you Diana.
There was a reason Chuck collected her body in Paris.
Camzilla wants him and the rest of the world to forget about their love.
I guess the only ones to remember are Wimpo and Harry and that's why the relationship with Chuck is very strained IMO.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 03, 2014, 09:56:24 pm
Camilla may be a snake but it takes two to tango. Charles did not cut her off from any access to him. he did not protect te wellbeing of his family. but again, i still blame Camilla for not backing off from Charles and for wrecking Diana's family. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Alexandrine on August 03, 2014, 10:48:11 pm
Let's remember that this thread is about Camilla's position on Charles' family. So mainly her relationship with William/Harry and their families.

It is NOT about Diana&Charles marriage.

There are already many threads about that topic so please use those.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 03, 2014, 11:37:39 pm
I find it very sinister that Camilla is being called Prince George's grandson despite the spin that there is so much "love" to go around, etc etc. I think if she had had the opportunity she would have usurped parenthood of William and Harry.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 04, 2014, 03:37:42 am
Stephanie thanks for those reminders - I too have always though Charles loved Diana and was deeply affected by her death.  But I do suspect he let Camilla dominate quite a bit and then Diana's ups and downs were also hard for him to deal with.  Combination of those things was disastrous.

I was and continue to be struck by the way Camilla looked at Will's wedding - as if she was going to cry - seriously - and not in one picture but in many pics from the wedding.  She looks very distressed.  I think the Queen said something.  You know - Camilla may get to the point where she thinks she has got it - everything has worked according to her plan and she has successfully erased Di's presence.  And then - well I would not be surprised if on occasion members of the RF - including PC - occasionally let a remark escape which reflects their resentments towards Camilla and demonstrates that she has not surpassed Di.

I do think that Camilla played her game well and especially took advantage of Charles emotional state after Di's death - he was described by many as being depressed for some time and that Camilla was the only one who knew how to handle him during that time.  Camilla is for sure a strategic thinker!

No matter how nice things look on the surface and in the pics we see- they do not reflect what is happening beyond the public's eyes.  I feel sure Camilla still does not have an easy time of it - I would not be so sure she has not in many ways paid a price for her ambition


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 04, 2014, 03:49:33 am
You're right; HM supposedly at the entrance of the Abbey kept Camilla away from her as Camilla moved in for an embrace and as for the wedding, she looked around fearful, almost like she had some kind of scene she had to endure before the wedding. She did not look like a happy woman.

As for Diana's death, Charles did fight for Diana to be brought home with dignity and respect, something he deserves kudos for.

If Camilla had kept the door shut and Charles had been able to get a grip on Diana's moods, things would have stabilized, but regrettably Camilla didn't. After Charles is crowned, Camilla will be like Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth Woodville, they'll have enemies surrounding them by the dozens and it'll be bad news.

Charles will probably remind her that she should 'shut her eyes and endure, as her betters have done' and he'll think that SHE owes HIM because of all he did.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 04, 2014, 12:22:52 pm
I don't think Charles that heroic. He was not man enough to make Diana non-negotiable after she died. His cousins trashed her on TV and even an elderly lady in waiting put Diana down on a documentary on the Queen. Then there is Joan Rivers who Charles invited to his wedding to Camilla and to his 65th birthday party. The same Joan who made jokes about Diana's death and telling the world on Larry King that Diana went "TCH TCH" to men and picked them up and oh yes, slept around. Charles was all palsy walsy with her even sending her cards every year. I think Charles was scared for his life which is why he went to get the body Diana's mother was resentful that she was not asked to go or that Charles gave her a call of condolence. She even put in her will that Charles not show up at her funeral services. Which says a lot. I think he did not just let Camilla push him around, he felt resentful of Diana and also felt he did nothing wrong. He was the one who wanted Camilla walking in to Diana's Memorial Service. I think Charles is very flawed and from his behavior he deserves someone like Camilla.

I don't think it made a difference to his plans for Camilla that Diana died. He just resumed the campaign less than a year after Diana died.

I don't think he's learned a thing considering the PR spin that Camilla is George's grandmother. He does want airbrushing.

Charles had many windows of opportunity to oust Camilla but never did. He could have closed the door. He sure shut the door in another mistress's face, Lady Kanga Tryon.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 04, 2014, 06:26:41 pm
totally agree with you Kei. Camilla had build castles in the sand, and even when she becomes queen consort, people will not love her, will not respect her, will not wish her well. yes, they will treat her politely and in accordance to her position in life but that's it. in people's minds she'll be a nobody with a crown, to many of the RF she will still be a nobody with a crown and under the protection of the future king. and once that protection is over, maybe many,many years from now, the queen with a crown may turn into an ordinary citizen once more.

i don't want to wish her anything bad. everyone deserves happiness. but she lusted after another woman's man, children, grandchildren, title, happiness. it's just wrong. even if C and C are happy together, their conscience is not clear and they did get their happiness literally over Diana's body. which is sad. if theirs is a true love story, with all that happened and all the lives that were ruined so that they are together (Diana's marriage, William and Harry's childhood, etc) - i can't stop thinking that this must come at a very high price, a price which both C and C have not paid yet.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 04, 2014, 06:35:02 pm
I also can't help think that if william and Harry had been a few years younger when their mother died Camilla would have tried to be their "mother" and Charles would push for that. Since they were older when their mother died they certainly would not want this woman to be called "mother" she had to wait until Charles first grandchild was born. Now she and Charles have the gall to promote PR that George is "her" grandson. And her five grandchildren are now rarely mentioned so when she buys something for her "grandson" or "grandchild" it is George.  If she and Charles felt uncomfortable about it they could have quashed the stories and called her stepgrandmother and mentioned that she has five grandchildren. Charles can never divorce Camilla because a second divorce would do him in and perhaps compromise his chances of succeeding to the throne and also he spun this story of the Great Love Story ever. He can't have any credibility if he divorces her.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 04, 2014, 08:33:37 pm
just like William - he made his bed and now he has to lie in it. although, technically, William can divorce Kate but then the shared secret about how BG was conceoved may become public. as for Camilla - I think that she has set in motion the now tradition that it's ok for the future kings to do whatever they want, and that it's ok for the future queen consort to not do anything at all, and that whatever past the future queen consort has - it will all go away and she will be the most beautiful and the most virtuous woman on Earth  :bored: not a good example at all.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 07, 2014, 09:47:16 pm
I never liked the word "step" she is George's grandmother through marriage the only one he will come to know ... that doesn't mean he won't know about his natural grandmother or that anyone has forgotten who she is (that would be impossible) ... I don't get it it's only a good think George will have "gaga" in his life the more people love him the better  :dontknow: ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 07, 2014, 09:56:01 pm
She is still the step grandmother. Like Charles is step granddad to her grandchildren. It's amazing that when it comes to Camilla according to some she MUST be grandmother of Prince George so how come there is not a similar push for Charles to be called granddad to HER children. Also how come Raine Spencer since Frances Shand Kydd is dead is not lauded as George's great grandmother instead g of step great grandmothter. To me this is PR is another way Camilla can stick it to her deceased rival, claiming her grandson. She does not even mention her own grandchildren and it is assumed that every gift she gets for her grandson is for George but she has three grandsons already. I don't think George will spend all that much time with Camilla in any case.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 08, 2014, 11:37:47 pm
Here's one thing that irks me about Camilla; how she had her chance to have Charles fight for her, but she went after Andrew instead. Charles might have fought for her if she could have waited, but instead she married Andrew, but wanted it both ways. Camilla is the one who married Andrew, but clung to Charles. I think Camilla was desperate to find some happiness after she realized that she had made a mistake and wanted to retain 'the old times' and never let Charles move on. I wonder how different things might have been if she had encouraged Charles to fight for her.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 09, 2014, 12:48:58 am
Charles never told her to wait for him. He told this to his biographer, it's all there in the authorized biography. Once she married APB he should have walked away and not looked back. Also Camilla was more than a mistress, she was his "mentor." When Mountbatten died, Camilla took over. She was not going to go away.  I honestly don't think Charles really wanted to marry her back then --just keep her on the side.  If Camilla felt she made a mistake she could have divorced APB. But I think APB benefitted by having his wife sleep with the POW. It was all rather sordid.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 09, 2014, 01:10:46 am
Camilla was more a habit than a love; yet I really do wonder what kind of sick mind it takes to break up a marriage.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 09, 2014, 01:37:30 pm
i'm apalled too.
imo, Charles would not have married her. she was a commoner, the grand daughter of a mistress of a king - not exactly the best business card for a princess in waiting. and I also thonk that she made a good call to marry whomever wanter to marry her. a woman should not waste her life waiting for a man to step up. even the part where she contonued to be his mentor is not that big of a deal, imo. the problem was that they did not break it off. Camilla wanted to take the wife's place and she literally got it. that is sinful and inexcusable.

also, Charles should have been a man enough to own up to his decisions and stick to his own family. imho, if his heart belonged to Camilla, not Diana - Diana would have given him a divorce sooner or later. She strikes me as the kind of woman who would want the whole heart of the man she's in love with. But Charles chose adultery instead.

and, everyone knows about Diana's anorexia / bulimia, and her sleeping with other men. well, hello - you stuff yourself with food and sgo out to get meaningless sex when you can't face your feelings, when the man you love is shutting you down. so, Diana's health is on  Camilla's conscience too.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 09, 2014, 02:44:59 pm
Yes, it is Ariel. It is totally on that woman. She was driving that bus big time. If she didn't do that then the RF would be a lot different today. So sad.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 09, 2014, 10:49:44 pm
Camilla was more a habit than a love; yet I really do wonder what kind of sick mind it takes to break up a marriage.

Camilla didn't become a real love of Charles until after his marriage broke down.  He didn't love her - yet.  By the time he did both parties were marriage breaking.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 10, 2014, 01:38:27 am
His authorized biographer said he was in love with her even mentioning that when he went back to her in 1979 he was in love and preferred her to  Diana when he was about to marry Diana.. And this is directly from Charles' own accounts.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 10, 2014, 05:24:06 am
I think Camilla was a broken woman by the time she was ready to marry.

According to Tina Brown, Camilla was legendarily sexually confident, but if it's true that she was in fact going to parties where men would throw their keys on the table, women picking them up and bonking the man whose keys they picked up, I would have to say she was profoundly messed up. Normal women don't do that kind of messed up stuff and I frankly think Camilla never should have been allowed to idealize her mistress of a great-grandmother.

By the time she was looking for a husband, she was running after Andrew-Parker Bowels and even he was dithering about being committed in a marriage. Worse, I think she wasn't viewed as a desirable wife and I think that by the time Andrew was cheating on her (first), she was desensitized and had lost all sense of right/wrong and was a lot like a lot of mistresses or 'ladies of the night' who are more often than not, profoundly broken. I don't think she's as tough, so much as desensitized.

Laughing away the pain was a huge mistake and according to TB, Camilla was at that point normalizing adultery. I don't think she's fixed or healthy, just profoundly beyond the pale of any kind of humanity she had. She's swathed in jewels and couture, but nothing will change her past. She has to deal with it and by bashing Diana and using the whole 'love affair of the century' BS, this is her new way of shrugging off the pain and making herself feel better.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Ariel on August 10, 2014, 01:21:07 pm
if all this is true, I can only feel more sorry for her.  :sob:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 10, 2014, 03:40:43 pm
I don't feel sorry for her. She went into this with her eyes wide open from the moment she slept with Charles as a married woman. And she had many chances to back off from Charles but did not take them. I think she feels the bling and the perks were well worth the effort.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 10, 2014, 06:57:46 pm
all this is true, I can only feel more sorry for her.  :sob:

Why?

She:

*Fractured what used to be a smooth running royal family
*Jeopardized the monarchy and creating stress in regards to keeping the RF scandal free
*Created a huge burden on William to 'get it right' in regards to marriage (which he didn't)
*Pushed a Princess of Wales out of her marriage/out of her monarchical position as future Queen Consort
*Created more work for the courtiers who likely resent the fact that one of their own (high ranking aristocrat) was pushed out of their position
*Ended up making it difficult for an aristocrat to be able to marry into the RF (or a royal princess that would bring huge prestige) to enhance Britain's standing
*Essentially broke up a marriage and drove a teenage bride to mental illness and then into the arms of an Arab playboy, resulting in Paris

It would be one thing if she wanted to be a wife if she had run into Charles several years later without having been his mistress, quite another if in fact she had been living her own life on the fringes and hoping to be able to be together again. I mean, instead of messing with a newly married man and wrecking his wife's health. If she owned up to what she did and took responsibility for it and accepted the antipathy, she would be a more tolerable and perhaps forgivable, but she refuses to do it.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 10, 2014, 09:13:39 pm
I recently read the book The Real Diana.  Not only did it make me like Diana more and let me see her in a totally non hysteric Diana mania manner, but it allowed me to see the woman as a whole woman, both private and public, and the two do differ.

It also gave great and meaningful insight into why D and C could never have worked out, and each in their own way did try.  Very much so.

Camilla is the byproduct and many don't see why Charles 'could' love her as opposed to the so-called beautiful Diana (I never saw Diana as particularly beautiful physically - very attractive, yes when younger), but Charles needed the authenticity of what was inside someone, and not the external package.  Diana needed real attention, the kind of love and attention not even a CEO of a company would have time for - hence she may well have been happy with Dodi.  I wish she had lived so we got to see what she did as in the end she really was growing up emotionally.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 10, 2014, 09:19:36 pm
I read that book too; Diana was nineteen and still undeveloped and predictably, enjoyed fashion and was superficial. She had more pressures at a younger age and Camilla didn't have half the pressure to look good or even be charitable. I admire how Lady C. did cover Diana as a human, but the thing remains, is that Diana likely stopped developing as she ended up becoming more and more famous and I believe Camilla had no business acting as hostess at Highgrove.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 10, 2014, 09:25:29 pm
KF, Diana also acted as a hostess at Highgrove.  With James Hewitt.  This is where I cannot point fingers at any party.  This is not Diana versus Camilla - it was just a complete train wreck.  I think most of us have met 19 year olds far less vulnerable in personality than some much older.  I can't get a true feel of Camilla to even try and gauge if she was a vulnerable type.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 10, 2014, 10:07:54 pm
Diana never let Hewitt or ANY of her other lovers interfere with her role as Princess of Wales (as Sarah Bradford points out clearly); she was married to Charles and at that point in time, no matter the lover, she dared not let any of them try to undermine her husband. None of her lovers bashed her husband in public and she still respected the role, if not the man. Camilla bashed Diana privately and publicly and undermined the prestige and respect for the title "Princess of Wales" and Charles failed to fight for the role, if not the woman. Even Edward VII and other past kings made sure their wife's role as Queen Consort was treated with respect due.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 10, 2014, 11:17:32 pm
KF, Diana also acted as a hostess at Highgrove.  With James Hewitt.  This is where I cannot point fingers at any party.  This is not Diana versus Camilla - it was just a complete train wreck.  I think most of us have met 19 year olds far less vulnerable in personality than some much older.  I can't get a true feel of Camilla to even try and gauge if she was a vulnerable type.

Diana WAS hostess at Highgrove. Camilla was not. Hewitt never took over Charles place at dinner parties. Camilla nervily sat in Diana's chair and played hostess for the Prince.

I think Camilla was as tough as nails and still is.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 11, 2014, 07:13:31 am
I believe Tina Brown, when Brown wrote that if Charles were not Prince of Wales, Camilla wouldn't have listened to his endless complaints. No way would Camilla have put up with all that drama if not for the chance to become official mistress with all the perks. I believe that Camilla prevented Charles from growing; if he had grown into a more assured man who stood on his own two emotional and psychological feet, that things would have been drastically different.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 11, 2014, 10:35:05 am
^
I think so too.
Camzilla feeds on his sexual and personal insecurities and even interferes with his role as the prince of Wales as the Tampon Tapes clearly show.
From this
http://rugbywrapup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Camilla_ParkerBowles.jpg
to this
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/08/article-2321219-19ADE43E000005DC-944_306x423.jpg
All "earned" by wrecking another woman's marriage and family for which Wimpo and Harry still pay the price.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 11, 2014, 01:16:16 pm
I believe Tina Brown, when Brown wrote that if Charles were not Prince of Wales, Camilla wouldn't have listened to his endless complaints. No way would Camilla have put up with all that drama if not for the chance to become official mistress with all the perks. I believe that Camilla prevented Charles from growing; if he had grown into a more assured man who stood on his own two emotional and psychological feet, that things would have been drastically different.

Camilla was going for the gold and if Charles had not been POW she would not have given him the right time. Charles needed a nanny and a lot of sycophants about. He got the nanny mistress and all the sycophants he wanted. So he did not grow he never acknowledged publicly his own shortcomings, just blamed others.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 11, 2014, 05:02:02 pm
The book I read stated James Hewitt was taken to Highgrove for intimate dinners and whatever goes with them, but no, Charles was not there but from the way it was written it was as if C and D had a agreement by then that they could both do 'their own thing'.

That book, by the way, is one Diana wanted written to get rid of the fairy tale - she said it was killing her - the author was Diana's choice, but the author refused to do a complete Morton job where it later proved there were many things Diana herself had to admit were lies or exaggerations. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 11, 2014, 06:08:37 pm
In agreement that Diana had her own intimate life, but thing is, that Diana wasn't 'acting' when she was presiding over dinners with Hewitt; that was her marital home and even Hewitt wasn't allowed to usurp anything that was Charles'. I don't think Diana was holding dinner parties with aristocrats with Hewitt presiding.

Camilla had no business doing what she did. Bad to undermine and wreck a marriage, but worse when she was undermining a royal marriage with dynastic implications.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 11, 2014, 09:04:14 pm
I agree. Earlier royals like Edward VII never let the mistresses usurp the wife's place as hostess in the wife's home. Certainly he and his mistresses met at various places outside the wife's home. Diana was then with Charles the owner of Highgrove. Camilla had no business replacing the wife as hostess at a royal residence. Hewitt never "replaced" Charles as host of Highgrove for dinner parties. Diana and Hewitt had meals there but he never ordered the servants around or tried to be host at dinners there.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 12, 2014, 07:29:08 pm
^ There was a lot on the menu in the 'marital' home, Sandy, in many ways that is considered replacing a partner.     I think both C and D should have kept that place sacrosanct, but neither did.

It is as if neither party had any boundaries.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 12, 2014, 09:26:50 pm
There were certain "codes" that the wife's or husband's place was not to be usurped as host. Hewitt never played host when Charles was not there. Camilla ordered around servants, made up the menu and sat down in Diana's place. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 12, 2014, 09:49:52 pm
I sometimes think HM had it too easy in regards to mistresses; since HM was Queen, there was no way that any mistress would be able to pull any usurpation antics off, so HM couldn't fathom the idea of Camilla going as far as she did, much less breaking up the dynastic marriage and then becoming the wife herself.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 13, 2014, 05:57:04 pm
^Sandy, if my husband had a mistress I'd rather she was at the table sprouting orders than in my bed with my husband.  But I do agree that codes were broken.  But they were broken on both sides.  Unfairly IMO, a blood princess is permitted discrete lovers, but a 'married in' one is not. 

^KF, I tend to agree, which made HM less understanding of others.  However, wasn't there some speculation about one of her children not being her husbands child?  I might be wrong on that point and be mixing HM with someone else, but I don't think so.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 13, 2014, 08:43:44 pm
Camilla was more than a bed partner for the prince she was undermining the wife constantly even taking over running Diana's home she shared with Charles. I think it wrong that Camilla gave orders to the servants and it showed she was a pushy , nervy woman. Diana would come back to Highgrove finding Camilla's "decorative" touches and the smell of cigarette smoke from Camilla.

Charles broke the code by thinking it OK to be with married women plus having a sense of entitlement. I doubt Diana would have looked at another man if Charles had dropped Camilla and not used Diana as a broodmare and someone for ceremonial appearances. He unceremoniously ditched Diana when he had the two children he needed. Camilla IMO was right there undermining Diana every step of the way.

I don't think Charles cared that Diana sought comfort elsewhere Diana would not complain as much about Camilla. I think he wanted the same type of cooperation from Diana that Camilla got from APB.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 19, 2014, 11:57:11 pm
Thing is, Camilla came from a background where it was generally acceptable to go after all you can get out of anyone or anything. Diana came from a background where one was supposed to exercise restraint and she was brought up to be restrained and keep herself covered up and be aware of how she came across.

Diana was a maturing influence on Charles and one thing that stands out, is how Camilla didn't view Charles as worth waiting for. It's a toss up, but I think that in time, with the right kind of PR campaign, Camilla might have been acceptable if she hadn't married APB. The RF could have spun it as Camilla being a modern woman who was confident about herself and chances are the toffs she banged would have kept their mouths shut and things might have gone very well in the end. Yet, while Charles was overseas, she married someone else and of course, was running after a man who would never be faithful. I'm certain of it.

When Charles was a married man, I believe that he wanted to be happily married, but old habits die hard (if ever) and Camilla was making it clear at some point that she wasn't going to go away. Camilla didn't like being on the bottom and being a dirty little secret, good only for a snatched hour or week (or two) and decided to go for the gold. I do think though, that Charles was a complete moronic airhead for not seeing Camilla as she was. I mean, he never paid attention to the warning signals. This was the fatal flaw, Charles' refusal to see Camilla as someone who was the main destabilizing factor in the marriage, not the media or his mother or Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 20, 2014, 02:18:40 am
I'm not so sure the Spencers were exemplars of restraint - quite a few scandals there - not to mention lots of divorce.  The two sisters seem to have done well - maybe because they were older when the Mom left?

Yes I do think Charles wanted his marriage to succeed but I think there were several destabilizing factors - Camilla was the last straw.

There really was a lack of restraint among the batch of them - Anne, Charles, Andrew and their spouses.  Extramarital affairs seem to have been the norm for that whole crowd.  It wasn't just the RF - their friends all were running about - multiple affairs and marriages.  It is as if the whole lot of them had no idea that there would be consequences to all this.  They could just flout all the rules and all would still be fine.  Very careless people.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 20, 2014, 07:00:08 am
When you think about it, the entire RF and British aristocracy is a mess; Diana and Charles had a lot going against them, but Camilla added to the mix, was in fact the main issue. Diana and Charles I think might have made it if Camilla hadn't dragged him back into the drama that is the aristocracy.

Camilla just took it to a whole new level when she started usurping Diana's home and of course, mixing up herself in Charles' official life. When Camilla started badmouthing not just Diana the person, but Diana the Princess of Wales, that was taking it to a too far level. Camilla went after the future Queen Consort at that point.

The only other mistress that attacked the Queen Consort, was Anne Boleyn and like Camilla, Anne was hated by both the people and aristocracy. I believe that the aristocrats dislike Camilla intensely and certainly, I believe that given the chance, the aristocrats would send her to the scaffold like their ancestors did to Anne Boleyn.

Camilla is an eternal albatross and hasn't done anything other than undermine the monarchy that she was born to (according to the standards of her society) obey and swear to uphold and maintain. Charles had to spend a lot to rehabilitate her, then of course including her insane love of luxury and designer jewels.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 20, 2014, 11:38:59 am
Camilla can wear all the designer clothing and jewels she wants but it does not erase the fact that she is an evil woman who still looks like hell after all of the expenditures. She is nothing but a drunken old mean sneaky crone.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CarryingOn on August 20, 2014, 12:54:44 pm
Camilla was the main issue plain and simple. From what I've read Charles had affairs with other women, which also weren't right, but Campon was the only one who wanted and was adamantly trying to bust up his marriage. Same goes for Diana, none of the men she had affairs with went around trying to bust up her marriage or bad mouth Charles, like Camilla did to Diana.

As far as Charles, he's like a lot of men; he thinks he's smarter than what he really is, that he's got the game figured out, that's he's the one calling the shots and writing the rules, all the while being played like a violin and boy did Camilla play him.

Let's look at the outcome

She got:
1) Title(s)
2) She gets to wear the Queen Mother's Jewels,
3) Botox, Bee Stings, and whatever the hell else she does to her face
4) Nice clothes and a Stylist
5) Nice homes
6) Money and connections for her leech spawn and sister.

At least until Charles kicks the bucket and everyone has money on him not outliving the Queen, monarchists and anti-monarchists alike. I would write something about loss of respect but any woman who would f#ck a married man in the gardens behind said man's home, doesn't have any to begin with.

He on the other hand went on to:
1) Make enemy, a wife who was nothing but an asset to him
2) Make a complete fool of himself nationally and internationally
3) Lose respect, credibility, standing, and popularity that he has not regained to this day!
4) Scar and neglect his own two sons
5) Gain a wife that is still very much unliked on both a national and international level, followed by complete indifference
7) Rack up bill upon bill in PR to make unliked wife liked, which to this day hasn't worked so he's had to stoop to having pictures of her being taken crying at her brother's funeral, which still hasn't worked

You tell me who got the better of the deal. I truly wonder if he thinks that it was worth it in the end. I know some people think that if he could do it all over again he would have at least remained unmarried to Camilla but I doubt it because can't admit any mistakes on his part.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 20, 2014, 01:31:02 pm
if Camilla is using botox she should demand a refund cause it ain't helping

CarryingOn I am inclined to agree with your summary - maybe though it is the part of me that thinks when people do something wrong there should be a result so I do wonder if both she and Charles do not suffer pangs of guilt and that what looks so happy happy to us on the outside isn't something else on the inside.  It seems impossible to me that one or both of them do not have qualms - that as they sail seemingly through life they do not remember Diana is not there and that they played a role in that.

I think she does want to be Queen and that she clearly has the ability to manipulate Charles so he will do everything in his power to make her Queen.  I think her willingness to stay as part of Charles life after he married shows just how ambitious she is.  And maybe also how weak Charles is.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 20, 2014, 02:58:19 pm
I doubt Charles and Camilla have any remorse. He was ready to escort Camilla into Diana's Memorial Service before public opinion stopped him. And the fact that the Camilla is grandmother of George headlines that keep on going show that they enjoy the airbrushing and I think Camilla gets some personal satisfaction playing "grandmother" to Diana's grandson.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 20, 2014, 11:01:01 pm
there was a documentary I saw several years ago about Charles and his mistresses - Kanga and Camilla.  Focus was on Kanga who of course came to a rough end. 

If I remember correctly - my impression was that the whole lifestyle of those people was so screwed up - husbands who stood by actually cooperated while Charles had affairs with their wives - not just APB but Kanga's husband too - Lord Tryon.  Then how Charles went from Camilla to Kanga depending on who was pregnant.  How casually he used and discarded these women when it suited him.  Even the journalists in the feature talk about this - rather a misogynistic society they are and Charles certainly seemed to see women just as things he could use for his own amusement.

Then how nuts it was to live ones life like this and how star struck for the monarchy these so called aristos were.  If PC wanted your wife well you just stood aside.  So of course the man has been warped by such a system that gives him such ridiculous deference.



And of course the whole Kanga-Camilla rivalry and how they both so intensely disliked one another and how both schemed to keep his attention.  How much being at the center of that world cause you were the mistress actually mattered to Camilla and Kanga.  Instead of being despised for being adulterers - they became influential and popular.  But it wasn't just Camilla who hung on - it was Kanga too - clinging to that position both of them.  Just shows how strong that ambition can be for some people - that desire for status and attention. And now - Camilla's two rivals - Kanga and Diana - are dead.

Despicable really and such a perverse world they occupy.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CarryingOn on August 20, 2014, 11:44:41 pm
She should demand a refund for any and everything she's having done to her face. It only ever looks shiny, not a wrinkle has disappeared! So maybe it's not botox. Botox actually does smooth the wrinkles unless her face was just too far gone for ever botox to work :dontknow:

I doubt it Cate. There's that statement parents used to tell you when you did something wrong and then tried to say sorry: "If you were really sorry you wouldn't have done it in the first place, you're really just sorry you got caught."

So are they truly sorry for what they've done or are they just sorry that the public can't stand them, especially Charles? I would like to believe that he is sorry but he's spent years after Diana's death trashing her or having his friends trash her and trying to whitewash what happened. He's never publicly acknowledged his fault in the breakdown of his marriage, even Diana did that if I'm not mistaken. I don't think his ego allows him to do so but I could be wrong.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 21, 2014, 12:28:49 am
there was a documentary I saw several years ago about Charles and his mistresses - Kanga and Camilla.  Focus was on Kanga who of course came to a rough end. 

If I remember correctly - my impression was that the whole lifestyle of those people was so screwed up - husbands who stood by actually cooperated while Charles had affairs with their wives - not just APB but Kanga's husband too - Lord Tryon.  Then how Charles went from Camilla to Kanga depending on who was pregnant.  How casually he used and discarded these women when it suited him.  Even the journalists in the feature talk about this - rather a misogynistic society they are and Charles certainly seemed to see women just as things he could use for his own amusement.

Then how nuts it was to live ones life like this and how star struck for the monarchy these so called aristos were.  If PC wanted your wife well you just stood aside.  So of course the man has been warped by such a system that gives him such ridiculous deference.



And of course the whole Kanga-Camilla rivalry and how they both so intensely disliked one another and how both schemed to keep his attention.  How much being at the center of that world cause you were the mistress actually mattered to Camilla and Kanga.  Instead of being despised for being adulterers - they became influential and popular.  But it wasn't just Camilla who hung on - it was Kanga too - clinging to that position both of them.  Just shows how strong that ambition can be for some people - that desire for status and attention. And now - Camilla's two rivals - Kanga and Diana - are dead.

Despicable really and such a perverse world they occupy.

Kanga never undermined Diana nor usurped her place as hostess nor redecorated one of her homes. Kanga was used by Charles while Camilla was having babies with APB. Camilla was and is more ruthless than Kanga. Charles referred to Camilla as his "best good friend." Camilla got rid of her too. Charles stopped contacting her and even would not see her when she was very sick and died soon after.

Kanga tried to hang on but Camilla saw her off just like she saw off Diana.

I think there were wives that Charles could not get too--first of all the women did not think Charles "all that" and the husbands would not want to "share" their wives with the Great Man.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CarryingOn on August 21, 2014, 01:20:14 am
I don't think Cate was trying to say that she did. I think she was trying to point out the f#cked up morals, behaviors, and relationships in general.

I don't think that Charles would have had a good marriage with anyone that he married. His relationship with Camilla was never over, for one. For two, he was too weak minded and easily led. Camilla would've always found a way to usurp the woman as I have no doubt Camilla wanted to be Queen. You can't have a marriage if one of the two people aren't all about preserving it. This woman could've been the most blase I don't care if you have an affair, I only want the money and she probably would've met the same fate as Diana because as Kuei Fei said Camilla didn't just go after Diana as a person, she went after Diana, Princess of Wales.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 21, 2014, 01:54:37 am
Right Carrying on - I am trying to make the point about that whole crowd - absolutely toxic people.  Not that Camilla deserves sympathy.  She is the one left standing - testimony to her ambition ruthlessness and her understanding of how to play that game.  And that is still the same dynamic he and Camilla live in now - do you think anyone is going to express their disapproval of the whole sordid mess?  Anyone who finds it sordid or who doesn't think Camilla or Charles are so great - has to keep their opinions to themselves or risk being thrown out of the group and then losing access to that network which affects their status and probably for some ability to earn money.  They are all the same people they were back in the day when they provided "safe" houses for Charles to meet with his mistresses while  his wife suffered. 

Sandy - I do not doubt for one minute that if Kanga ever thought the crown was in her reach she would have happily gone for it.  The only reason she teamed up with Diana was because by then Camilla was winning.  If Charles had still an interest in her - she would have and did in the early years - undermined Diana's marriage too.  Granted she was mentally ill in her later years but she actually stalked Charles trying to renew their relationship and her friends have said she told them of her ambition to be Queen.

But it is also true that not everyone in that upper class circle wanted to have an affair with him or that every husband was willing to acquiesce to Charles appetites.  Which is part of the point too I think - that in some way all these very screwed up people all managed to find each other - the whole crowd of them had their moral compasses broken. 

I do agree no one in that group stops to think much about Diana or even Kanga - as I said - the fact that Camilla's rivals are forgotten is so convenient for them all.

And also how convenient that Kanga was mentally ill and that Diana ultimately was characterized that way too.

But - somewhere - someday - the piper demands payment.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 21, 2014, 02:38:56 am
Kanga lacked the manipulative skills of Camilla IMO.

Kanga did not "stalk" Charles she actually was rather pathetic and sad person toward the end of her life. Charles could have at least spoken to her--nobody expected him to rekindle anything, least of all Kanga.

Diana is not forgotten by any stretch of the imagination. Camilla did not "succeed" there.

Kanga is not exactly forgotten she is mentioned in just about all the books about Charles and Diana and there was a documentary about her. People don't forget.

Diana was not "mentally ill" only those who were lapdogs to Charles like Penny Junor labeled her that way. Plenty of people don't believe that rubbish.

Diana had an eating disorder brought on by stress (living with a very dysfunctional husband) and got the eating disorder under control

Camilla would not have "won" had Charles married a woman (the first wife) just as hard hearted as Camilla--someone who had no intention of giving Charles a divorce and living it up enjoying the perks. And even playing nice with Camilla. Though Camilla would have sent a woman such as that off unless the woman was a skilled actress.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CarryingOn on August 21, 2014, 04:24:34 am
Right Carrying on - I am trying to make the point about that whole crowd - absolutely toxic people.  Not that Camilla deserves sympathy.  She is the one left standing - testimony to her ambition ruthlessness and her understanding of how to play that game.  And that is still the same dynamic he and Camilla live in now - do you think anyone is going to express their disapproval of the whole sordid mess?  Anyone who finds it sordid or who doesn't think Camilla or Charles are so great - has to keep their opinions to themselves or risk being thrown out of the group and then losing access to that network which affects their status and probably for some ability to earn money.  They are all the same people they were back in the day when they provided "safe" houses for Charles to meet with his mistresses while  his wife suffered.  


But it is also true that not everyone in that upper class circle wanted to have an affair with him or that every husband was willing to acquiesce to Charles appetites.  Which is part of the point too I think - that in some way all these very screwed up people all managed to find each other - the whole crowd of them had their moral compasses broken.  


I don't know, I doubts about the ones who offered them save haven, truly not approving, because otherwise why let them. Stand for something or fall for anything, really. You don't have to verbally berate but you don't have to offer your home as sanctuary.

Birds of a feather definitely flock together but as far as their moral compasses, whose to say they ever had one for it to even be broken. I doubt Charles had one and I think he from a very young age had to many outside influences on him, letting him do whatever he wanted. You had the Queen Mother who spent her time spoiling him and turning him into a useless human being and that Mountbatten dude directing him like a puppet. He was brought up to believe that he could do whatever he wanted and no consequences would befall him.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 21, 2014, 05:47:13 am
All these aristocrats were in fact tolerant because they view Camilla with the same indulgence the way they view any kind of kindhearted mistress in a brothel. A 'nice type,' but still, only a mistress. If Camilla were still a mistress, she would still be sitting several rows behind the regular royal party.

Camilla would not have "won" had Charles married a woman (the first wife) just as hard hearted as Camilla--someone who had no intention of giving Charles a divorce and living it up enjoying the perks. And even playing nice with Camilla. Though Camilla would have sent a woman such as that off unless the woman was a skilled actress.

Thing is, that, what makes what Camilla did so hocking is how she destroyed a marriage between a Prince and Princess of Wales; no one other than Diana likely viewed Camilla as anything other than a predatory mistress and liked perks and wanted to maintain her position, nothing new in that set.

The difference now is that Camilla literally threw the wife off and this is what must have shocked the courtiers; threw the wife off, blasted the wife's rep, and then ended up marrying in, only creating more work and stress for the courtiers who have enough problems as it is when it comes to keeping the Windsors on track.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 21, 2014, 01:55:27 pm
Diana IMO did not ask for much when she married Chuck except loyalty and faithfulness.
For the first time in his life Chuck was asked to give and not only take.
He might have stepped up to it if he hadn't kept Camzilla as a "confidante".
Get "advise" from the Wrinkly Homewrecker and your marriage is toast.
Other friends with strong marriages probably could have helped them with their adjustment problems and they might still be together today.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 21, 2014, 05:38:01 pm
IMO this entire saga can never ever, and neither should it be, looked upon as a one way street as in it was all the fault of Charles.

Just imagine yourself meeting a man - he's titled, rich, an heir to the throne, a fairy tale fit for a princess - but how to catch him?

Pretend/fake to like the things he likes - mimic his hobbies as being things you love to do yourself.  He's really falling for you now.

He loves the country, but you adore the city, so what do you do?  You tell him the country is your favorite place to be. Yes, it's a lie - but that's ok right?

What I'm getting at is would that not make a man feel betrayed?  Tricked?  Married to a stranger?

IMO they both did wrong - very very wrong.  bignono


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 21, 2014, 08:13:35 pm
Diana was nineteen and doing what a lot of nineteen year olds do to get their 'dream guy' and thing is, a woman like Camilla, like Anne Boleyn rarely comes along. I am certain that if not for Camilla, Diana and Charles would be modernizing the monarchy and W&H would not be the messes they are. When Charles married Camilla he validated every single accusation that Diana made against the pair of them and lowered the tone of the monarchy and put more of a burden on William.

The only thing I disliked about Diana is how post-divorce, she did mess around with men who were attached to other women.

Pity Chalres wasn't more cynical about Camilla; apparently Camilla preferred a marriage to APB, but only when Charles was going on in life with Diana did Camilla suddenly become more possessive. Camilla didn't want Charles as a husband (with her ruthlessness I am certain she would have ended up the first wife the first time around), but enjoyed leeching off of him and enjoyed undermining his marriage, while Camilla preferred her own fundamentally married life with APB, chasing him just as ruthless.

It took Camilla a lot of 'work' to get Andrew PB and oddly that wasn't enough. Ironic; Camilla had a 'good marriage' and couldn't even keep that together. If Charles had in fact been as cynical about Camilla as he was about Diana, Camilla would have been given the boot and made to stay in the countryside where she belonged. In no way is Camilla ever going to be excusable for what she did, the level of selfishness is breathtaking. As for Charles, he failed as a king for letting his mistress take over.

I view Henry VIII much in the same way; Henry VIII was unfaithful at times, but in fact, thing is, that if not for Anne Boleyn, that Henry never would have gone so far as to strip his daughter of her legitimacy and never would have persecuted Katherine in such a way. Anne and her viciously ambitious family did a horrific job on England. I mean, for Anne's say Henry systematically destroyed the monasteries and convents and spent his entire time murdering More, Fisher, so many people who were a wonderful part of his early life and knew that they were genuine friends and all of them murdered so Anne could have her daughter be legitimate. Of course, the entire country was subjected to so much instability as a result.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 21, 2014, 08:27:38 pm
A lot of rewriting of history going on here ... Chuck and Di were two people who should have never gotten married but it happened and by 1986 the marriage was over and they had gone their separate ways he with Cam , she with HEWITT ... problems started when Di saw Chuck was happy with Cam while she after HEWITT and the married men she had affairs with was alone that's when she got bitter and set her own down fall in motion with The Morton book and The Panorama interview !!! No one I repeat no one "tossed out" Di but Di and her actions that her own family , friends and employes condemned and rightfully so !!!


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 21, 2014, 08:32:55 pm
Diana was concerned about Camilla early in the marriage because Camilla made it clear she was not going anywhere--sending those cufflinks to Charles on his honeymoon trip with Diana. Camilla had no intention of being out of Charles' life and undermined Diana every step of the way. Problems started earlier than 1986 Jane.. Charles buddies would leak nasty stories about Diana to the press before the Morton book. Diana wanted to get "her side" out after all the undermining by Charles clique. Maybe you condemn her jane but her own family, friends and employees ever made public statements condemning her. One of Charles servants did go to the press and talked about the Garden Sex that C and C had right under the window at Highgrove where Diana and their children slept. Charles rejected Diana after he got his heir and spare from her. Charles set the fall in motion by his being emotionally abusive to Diana especially after he went back to his mistress.

what "married men" jane you always play that card. There is proof she was with Hewitt--both admitted it. Carling a married man denied any affair took place. Hoare never confirmed or denied an affair. So what is it with harping on the married men. It does not make what C  and C did any less sleazy. They were going at it before Diana even came on the scene.

Ana Bolena, I recall that during the courtship it was known by the public that Diana did not ride because she fell off a horse and did not hunt. She went on walks with Charles at Balmoral and picnics and watched him fish. It should be noted that she was not feeling well having morning sickness while with Charles on the Balmoral Honeymoon. Kate was cut some slack because she had morning sickness but apparently Diana was being "wicked" by not going on country pursuits while nauseous.

Diana watch Charles play polo even when the marriage went downhill, they went on ski trips together and both enjoyed beaches and swimming. So she did have things in common and did not need to "pretend."

I think Camilla was the fake and knew the right buttons to press. Had he not been the Prince of Wales I doubt she'd have given him the right time.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 21, 2014, 10:26:08 pm
A lot of rewriting of history going on here ... Chuck and Di were two people who should have never gotten married but it happened and by 1986 the marriage was over and they had gone their separate ways he with Cam , she with HEWITT ... problems started when Di saw Chuck was happy with Cam while she after HEWITT and the married men she had affairs with was alone that's when she got bitter and set her own down fall in motion with The Morton book and The Panorama interview !!! No one I repeat no one "tossed out" Di but Di and her actions that her own family , friends and employes condemned and rightfully so !!!

Hewitt never would have been able to get away with badmouthing Charles; Diana kept her lovers on a side and they never messed with her role as Princess of Wales and were never able to undermine her husband's status. Hewitt was a lover, nothing more and frankly put, that is the difference.

I do still love you though Jane  :hi:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 21, 2014, 11:49:46 pm
I agree. Hewitt never badmouthed Charles or usurped his place as host nor redecorated his homes.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 22, 2014, 12:39:43 am
I  do not believe either the PC or Di version of what happened - they both tried to paint the events in a way which favored them and in Di's case - she exaggerated and dramatized.  PC did the reverse - he underplayed events.  So I do not think we know the truth about the early years of their marriage or the role Camilla played.  All we heard is Diana's point of view years after and in the midst of a complete break down of the marriage.  C'mon - Diana thought Charles was going to kill her so he could marry Tiggy and that Camilla was a smokescreen.  She was not seeing things or even remembering things in a clear way at that time.  The intense emotional reaction she has to her rejection  really did make it hard for her to think clearly.  Pictures and film of Di and Charles long into the marriage - candid pics that were not posed - often show two people who are affectionate with each other even after Harry's birth giving the lie to the whole "torture" life that was portrayed after the Morton book.

I also think a lot of what has been accepted as gospel in the Di-Charles story is reinterpretation after the fact by other people who have their own agendas.

Keep in mind once the two of them started having affairs - Charles had an affair with a Canadian woman - dumping Camilla while that went on.  Neither Charles nor Diana wanted a divorce - it was PP who finally said after the Panorama interview that enough was enough and made them divorce.  So I am not so sure Camilla was the great love of his life.  I'd bet that if Di had lived Charles and Camilla would never have married.  Consider what their relationship looked like before she died - even she admitted that at Will's confirmation she and the Queen got on well and Charles was coming over to KP to visit her often and planning shared events such as the last trip on Britannia.

Charles cornered himself into a permanent relationship with Camilla with his public admissions.  He also seems weak and was I think further manipulated by Camilla.  There may have been a time when Camilla was happy to play the Alice Keppel to Charles but once the marriage imploded Camilla saw other possibilities and her ambitions got bigger.  And she successfully played Charles.

We do not know where Charles and Di's relationship would have gone if she had lived.  We also do not know where Camilla would have ended up if Di had lived.  That in so many ways is the tragedy of her death - that neither she nor Charles had the chance to continue the more positive relationship that was developing between them.  Consider that Diana backed off some of her more dramatic statements in the last year of her life even saying that she was absolutely sure that Charles had been "very very much in love" with her.  Very very much in love does not match the drama of her earlier statements about Camilla and their honeymoon etc.

When Charles first heard of the accident - before he knew she had died - he was all prepared to "take care of her" and was going to France to fetch her. 

People take sides on this - they see it all in such black and white terms - no criticisms of Diana will be tolerated and no kind words about Charles will be tolerated or vice versa.  But both of these people were in many ways damaged, made some very wrong decisions and both were complex humans - there is no black and white - he was right she was wrong version of this story.  Just two very flawed people in very complex situations. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 22, 2014, 12:48:50 am
Tina Brown was the one who claimed Charles wanted to "take care of" Diana. He was too much involved with Camilla by then IMO--he already had a big PR push for her. Charles some other writers said was scared for his life when Diana died. Charles was not exactly Mr Sensitive with Diana and was emotionally abusive I doubt Diana by then would seek out his "care" of her. Charles I don't think learned a thing--he was fully prepared to walk into Diana's Memorial Service with Camilla until public opinion stopped her from going.

Camilla was divorced because of Charles confessions to Dimbleby. And her father confronted Charles over this. He IMO was obligated to Camilla and was spending megabucks on her PR campaign even during that Summer of 1997 when he and Diana were allegedly "getting along better." Diana's friends claimed that Diana was still guarded about Charles.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 22, 2014, 05:12:44 am
^ Cate you have said it far more succinctly than I have been able to.  There is no grey area that many will even look at.  Time and time again I have stated that nothing is ever black and white, and IMO C and D are no exception to the rule.

As for which one I believe - neither of them and never will.  They both lied, schemed, manipulated and went for the throat when they could, although I have long felt, along with many other people that the panorama interview was meant and intended to cause harm. 

I'm not bringing Camilla into this - not because I think she's any saint by any stretch of the imagination, but because that means all lovers can be brought up for balance. (The grey many wish to deny).

This is how everything always comes over to me -:

Diana could have committed a murder yet an excuse will be found for her. Always a reason. Never her choice. Never her fault.

On the other hand I feel like many would dance on Charles grave if they could have him dead. 


If I had a choice I would have much preferred Diana had lived and had a happy life.  I would also wish the very same for Charles to be having a happy life.

I would wish the same for anyone. Man. Woman. Child.






Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 22, 2014, 05:49:50 am
Quite frankly, if Charles had made Camilla act like an adult and made to own her actions, I am certain that things would be different. Camilla couldn't handle the abuse, but instead of backing out or accepting responsibility, she decided to blame someone else.

As for Charles, common sense states that you don't marry a nineteen year old and think that someone who has barely left her teens is equipped to be an emotional and psychological support system for a fully grown adult male and think that there won't be problems. It's a sick dynamic as any psychologist will tell you.

I do think that if not for the public BS of Diana being crazy, she might have ended up getting better treatment, maybe even in an in-patient hospital setting, but Diana couldn't mainly because if she had, the C&C camp would have looked completely validated and triumphant. So go figure, that part was blocked off.

I daresay that if Diana had checked herself in and become healthier, it would have in fact been a huge leap towards mainstreaming mental health treatment. Yet, C&C messed that up as well. Charles knew he was doing wrong (why treat his adultery like a dirty secret then?) and lied and lied and lied about it all the time.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 22, 2014, 12:51:21 pm
Just a thought, but maybe Chuck wanted Diana because she was not scheming and manipulating and breaking vows.
Maybe he wanted to change and start a new life.
But that didn't happen and IMO the reason for that is Campon.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 22, 2014, 01:04:35 pm
Quite frankly, if Charles had made Camilla act like an adult and made to own her actions, I am certain that things would be different. Camilla couldn't handle the abuse, but instead of backing out or accepting responsibility, she decided to blame someone else.

As for Charles, common sense states that you don't marry a nineteen year old and think that someone who has barely left her teens is equipped to be an emotional and psychological support system for a fully grown adult male and think that there won't be problems. It's a sick dynamic as any psychologist will tell you.

I do think that if not for the public BS of Diana being crazy, she might have ended up getting better treatment, maybe even in an in-patient hospital setting, but Diana couldn't mainly because if she had, the C&C camp would have looked completely validated and triumphant. So go figure, that part was blocked off.

I daresay that if Diana had checked herself in and become healthier, it would have in fact been a huge leap towards mainstreaming mental health treatment. Yet, C&C messed that up as well. Charles knew he was doing wrong (why treat his adultery like a dirty secret then?) and lied and lied and lied about it all the time.

Diana needed the right therapist for the eating disorder and got it and got it under control. After she left the stress of living in the dysfunctional marriage ( a no win situation thanks to Camilla's machinations).

I think Charles needed to dump Camilla and he and Diana should have gone to marriage counseling. Charles instead whined to his friends about his marriage and also used Camilla as a source of counseling.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 22, 2014, 01:43:38 pm
^
They obviously had adjustment problems, Chuck as a too long bachelor who had only himself to think about and Diana who had never been with a man(let alone lived with one).
Chuck could have married at any time.
Before and after he met Diana but he didn't.
I don't buy the story of being forced to marry at all.
I think Chuck was so quick to propose to get her off the market asap.
It must have enraged the Wrinkly Homewrecker to lose Chuck and I'm sure she has been subtly dissing and blackening Diana from the get go.
While the Homewrecker had NO worries and pressures in her life except APB who earned her bread Diana had a lot of pressures.
Married and pregnant at 20, carrying out a full schedule from day one, dealing with  a not so rosy childhood.
Chuck is formal while Diana was emotional and I'm sure she baffled him sometimes.
A TRUE friend would have given him very different advise then Campon. :ick:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 22, 2014, 04:30:11 pm
Just a thought, but maybe Chuck wanted Diana because she was not scheming and manipulating and breaking vows.
Maybe he wanted to change and start a new life.
But that didn't happen and IMO the reason for that is Campon.
  :laugh: ... thank you for the laugh ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 22, 2014, 04:48:10 pm
I catch your drift but I,m talking about Diana at the time she married.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 22, 2014, 07:00:46 pm
Just a thought, but maybe Chuck wanted Diana because she was not scheming and manipulating and breaking vows.
Maybe he wanted to change and start a new life.
But that didn't happen and IMO the reason for that is Campon.

Not scheming?   :laugh:

Is this supposed to be as funny as it reads?


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 22, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Diana learned lessons that no woman should ever have to learn. She did come into the marriage a naive 20 year old all starry eyed and she got disillusioned fast when she noticed the little gifts from Camilla and Charles keeping Camilla's pictures on the honeymoon. Diana learned from the masters of manipulation and had to fight back.

However people label Diana as "manipulative" she was up against Charles mistress who was constantly undermining her, Charles friends who leaked stories about her. I think if it had not been for the leaking stories and backstabbing of Charles friends (who pretended to be her friends too) there would have been no Morton. With the stories floating about Diana felt she could lose custody of her sons since technically the Queen could call the shots about their upbringing.

It was by no means a level playing field when Lady Diana married Prince Charles. Had Camilla been gracious and stepped out of the picture (no calls no nothing to the Prince) I think D and C could have made a go of it.

Marriage counseling would have been what Charles and Diana truly needed--no sycophantic "help" from his friends or from Camilla. But somebody objective who could try to help work out issues between them. The mistake Charles made was going to his sycophantic friends for "help" and of course they would put down the wife to try to make him feel better.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 22, 2014, 09:17:32 pm
 :goodpost:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 23, 2014, 10:30:39 am
Last time I checked Chuck and Di entered a marriage together and it was their fault it all went own the toilet blaming a third party doesn't make sense otherwise I could argue that if it wasn't for Hewitt and Di's other numerous lovers they  could have made a go at the marriage ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 23, 2014, 11:13:17 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732283/Will-Charles-buy-Camilla-house-nearly-murdered-brother.html :laugh:
Before long, Camilla was preparing for marriage — gels didn’t hang around in those days — and thus it was dashed inconvenient, having announced her engagement to cavalry officer Andrew Parker Bowles, to discover the Heir to the Throne had fallen in love with her. Still, Camilla pluckily went ahead with Plan A, and the rest is history. :lie:



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 23, 2014, 11:23:33 am
I wonder if in fact Charles felt horrendously burned when Camilla chose Andrew and then wanted Camilla back, wishing that things were the way they were before Camilla decided on someone else. Camilla might have broken the engagement, but thing is, by the standards of her time she was supposed to get married after her debut.

Last time I checked Chuck and Di entered a marriage together and it was their fault it all went own the toilet blaming a third party doesn't make sense otherwise I could argue that if it wasn't for Hewitt and Di's other numerous lovers they  could have made a go at the marriage ...

They were bad for each other and were both way too damaged to keep a smooth running marriage. Yet, since both escaped through affairs, they never had to face adulthood.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 23, 2014, 11:55:02 am
Chuck could have married her back then IMO.
A D lister amongst the possible royal brides but he could have.
No husband, no major scandal etc.
But I guess the "love" didn't run so deep at all. Chuck had other lovers and Camzilla was in an on/off relationship with APC for years.
Camzilla needed a breadwinner before she had a bad reputation and Chuck just wasn't interested in marrying her.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 23, 2014, 01:03:06 pm
Last time I checked Chuck and Di entered a marriage together and it was their fault it all went own the toilet blaming a third party doesn't make sense otherwise I could argue that if it wasn't for Hewitt and Di's other numerous lovers they  could have made a go at the marriage ...

Numerous lovers? In your dreams.

Last time I checked Charles kept Camilla around and accepted her little gifts on his honeymoon with Diana. Camilla is the elephant in the room you choose to ignore.

Charles ditched  Diana after he had the heir and spare he needed.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 23, 2014, 01:04:19 pm
I wonder if in fact Charles felt horrendously burned when Camilla chose Andrew and then wanted Camilla back, wishing that things were the way they were before Camilla decided on someone else. Camilla might have broken the engagement, but thing is, by the standards of her time she was supposed to get married after her debut.

Last time I checked Chuck and Di entered a marriage together and it was their fault it all went own the toilet blaming a third party doesn't make sense otherwise I could argue that if it wasn't for Hewitt and Di's other numerous lovers they  could have made a go at the marriage ...

They were bad for each other and were both way too damaged to keep a smooth running marriage. Yet, since both escaped through affairs, they never had to face adulthood.

They would not have been "bad for each other" had not Camilla undermined the wife and took over from her. I doubt Diana would have looked at another man had Charles dumped Camilla when he got engagred.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 23, 2014, 07:13:44 pm
Last time I checked Chuck and Di entered a marriage together and it was their fault it all went own the toilet blaming a third party doesn't make sense otherwise I could argue that if it wasn't for Hewitt and Di's other numerous lovers they  could have made a go at the marriage ...

Numerous lovers? In your dreams.

Last time I checked Charles kept Camilla around and accepted her little gifts on his honeymoon with Diana. Camilla is the elephant in the room you choose to ignore.

Charles ditched  Diana after he had the heir and spare he needed.



How can anyone be sure who committed physical adultery first?  That's what I would like to know - if anyone knows 100% the truth.  Oh, and nothing out of C or D's mouths.  I don't consider either party a reliable source.

Um, Diana did have numerous lovers.  I don't think Jane is dreaming; I think she's been realistic and has probably read a great deal.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 23, 2014, 08:05:13 pm
Charles did. He was with married Camilla soon before he married Diana (some say she was the woman on the royal train). He also cheated first in the sense that he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana (as he told his biographer in 1994). I call that cheating. Diana was ditched by Charles in 1984.

How do you define Numerous Lovers AB?

Charles had many lovers  because he was told to sow wild oats and was with other women besides Camilla even cheating on her with Janet Jenkins (that is if a man can cheat on a married woman).



She was not promiscuous and did not pick up different men in bars every night.  She was with Hewitt from 1986-1989; 1991 (Hewitt did not mention her running around with other men). Hoare (though he never commented on the nature of the relationship) 1994-95. Khan (1995-1997) and Dodi (1997). So from the exaggerated descriptions by some of Diana's love life one would think she had 20 lovers and was another Catherine the Great. If she had all these lovers certainly her detractors like Junor would have tossed this at her. And had she been promiscuous I doubt she would have been allowed to keep the boys. Carling denied any affair. Mannakee's wife said there was no affair  re: Diana and her husband; Diana told Settelen she was not sleeping with Mannakee. Additionally even Charles person Seward said Diana did not sleep with Mannakee and even Penny Junor said there was no physical affair with Carling and Diana.

I think there is some exaggeration going on. The more people disapprove of Diana the more "lovers" they credit her with. This reminds me of trumped up charges against Anne Boleyn so Henry could dispose of her.  Why try to smear the rep of a dead woman who was by no means promiscuous?

I know some don't care for Diana but to press charges with no proof is really not right on many levels.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 24, 2014, 10:08:17 am
I agree. Saying these untruths about a defenseless dead woman is dirty pool.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 24, 2014, 10:19:14 pm
Sandy, I am not Anti-Diana!  Do I seek realism? Yes.

What do I call numerous lovers?  

Do I really have to go through all the books with evidence to state who she was intimate with?  

Diane left Hoare BECAUSE of Diana.  What does that say? Later he and his wife Diane reconciled after Diana had stalked them by phone.  What does that say?  Princess Margaret saw Hoare being 'smuggled' into Kensington Palace.

And why bring up Anne Boleyn who is no longer here to defend herself?  Because it's history and always will be brought up.

What I fail to understand is that anyone, and it means anyone human on this planet earth can receive as many excuses for their behavior as Diana does.  Yet, by the very same token, no one speaks one iota of a word in favor of Charles even when he does good things.  IMO it is the brutal unfairness of the situation.

I am left with the opinion that anything Diana did was never her choice, her choosing, her problem.  She, unlike mere mortals is eternally exempt.





Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 24, 2014, 10:57:14 pm
^  good post

Diana as eternal blameless victim

Diana had a real obsessive streak in her - hence the stalking of Hoare and his wife which was wrong on so many levels and you can't blame that one on Camilla Charles or "she was just 19".   


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 12:08:24 am
Sandy, I am not Anti-Diana!  Do I seek realism? Yes.

What do I call numerous lovers?  

Do I really have to go through all the books with evidence to state who she was intimate with?  

Diane left Hoare BECAUSE of Diana.  What does that say? Later he and his wife Diane reconciled after Diana had stalked them by phone.  What does that say?  Princess Margaret saw Hoare being 'smuggled' into Kensington Palace.

And why bring up Anne Boleyn who is no longer here to defend herself?  Because it's history and always will be brought up.

What I fail to understand is that anyone, and it means anyone human on this planet earth can receive as many excuses for their behavior as Diana does.  Yet, by the very same token, no one speaks one iota of a word in favor of Charles even when he does good things.  IMO it is the brutal unfairness of the situation.

I am left with the opinion that anything Diana did was never her choice, her choosing, her problem.  She, unlike mere mortals is eternally exempt.





Mr and Mrs Hoare are still married so Diana did not break up their marriage.

I see that when Diana is knocked it is giving free passes to Charles and Camilla saying well she did this too etc. But Charles was the one who proposed to Diana but wanted a marriage on his terms and that meant keeping Camilla around. It's not as if Charles tried very hard since he knew Camilla was there for him. He wanted the heirs from Diana and got them then he was more or less through with her and there would be no more children.

Diana went into the marriage in a sincere way but after the marriage became disillusioned because Camilla was not going to go away.

I am stating a fact about Anne Boleyn--Henry DID bring up trumped up charges against her. It is a fact not a criticism since Anne was falsely accused.

I see people going on about "numerous" lovers being unfair to her. It is an entirely different matter. Diana indeed has had trumped up charges with the lovers growing exponentially the more people dislike the late Princess.

Again despite Hoare being "smuggled in" he never admitted publicly adultery with Diana and Diana is dead and can't talk anymore. BTW Hoare pursued other women not just Diana and according to Wharfe he did a lot of the pursuing of the Princess himself.

I think saying she had "numerous lovers" is tantamount to calling her promiscuous.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 12:10:15 am
^  good post

Diana as eternal blameless victim

Diana had a real obsessive streak in her - hence the stalking of Hoare and his wife which was wrong on so many levels and you can't blame that one on Camilla Charles or "she was just 19".   

Charles had an obsessive streak in him hence the stalking of married women like Camilla and Kanga which was wrong on many levels. He came into the marriage with a sloppy morality and the difference is Diana came into it with no past. Charles had no intention of giving up the mistress and was emotionally abusive to Diana. Yes, you can blame Diana being cut loose on Camilla and Charles. He rejected her in a humiliating way.

And Hoare was willing if you read up on first hand accounts by Wharfe. He did his share of stalking of Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 25, 2014, 01:31:36 am
that Hoare was willing does not make what Diana did okay - it was still wrong if for no other reason than that he was married and as a married woman who had a husband cheat on her - Diana knew better than to inflict the same sort of pain on Hoare's wife.  You cannot excuse Diana because someone else was bad -

This is what is objectionable IMHO - that there is never any excuse for Charles - but everything is excused for Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 01:39:24 am
I see plenty of excuses made for Charles. That's the point of dredging up exaggerated number of lovers for Diana.

Diana was no saint but she was unceremoniously dumped. Divorce was discouraged. I suppose it would have been great if she lived like a nun, kowtowed to Camilla and sent Charles off to have his fun with Camilla. Now that would be masochism but as long as Charles was happy that is all that mattered.

Hoare was just as much to blame. Nobody forced him to pursue Diana. And he is still with his wife.  And it is an exaggeration to say Diana was the one doing the chasing. Hoare according to wharfe did some major chasing himself.

Charles had a nice little arrangement with the PBs Diana's "sin" was she complained about sharing Charlie Boy with Camila. I doubt Charles could have cared less that she sought comfort elsewhere.

Charles came into the marriage with a shabby moral life and knowing he preferred Camilla --he used Diana to get heirs. that's why I blame him more.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 25, 2014, 06:06:17 am
^^^^Sandy!!!!


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 25, 2014, 06:14:07 am
It irks me to no end to see how self-centered the Windsors have become. HM was so busy concentrating on her own glory that she wouldn't let anyone have anything resembling a happy life so she could adhere to rules that enabled her to avoid responsibility for her life or her family. Elizabeth I wasn't half as selfish and as for anyone who thinks Elizabeth was a tyrant, it was the times in which she lived. HM's snotty judgementalism and unwillingness to secure the succession and ensure stability to me will end up being a huge mark against her legacy. Charles is a complete failure of a man and husband and Prince that frankly I wonder just what it will take to end up with the entire spoiled rotten family to be kicked out. HM really never had to even TRY to secure her place as monarch and has frankly lived almost too easily to handle any challenges. Frankly, she's failed to mature or Camilla NEVER would have allowed Charles to limit the number of children that Diana would have. Frankly I believe that if Diana had been burying herself in carrying/bearing/raising children she would have ended up more content with a houseful of children to distract her.

Charles has to be one of few royal princes who would end up having his mistress decide how many heirs he would have to secure the succession.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 25, 2014, 08:23:37 am
IMHO Charles has conducted himself in his myriad affairs especially with married women - long before he married Diana BTW - despicably.

But Diana stalked Hoare - she made all those phone calls to him at all hours of the day and night.  She did wrong.  It would be nice if people could just admit that for once Diana actually did something wrong


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 25, 2014, 09:04:39 am
Charles is a failure at everything because he failed to worship the Saint that was Di give me a break ... the man lived with the real Di and the real Di was very ugly ... the woman tried to kill herself in front of him because he was talking on the phone and couldn't pay attention to her I ask you what man would live or even love a crazy woman like that?


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 01:09:07 pm
Charles showed complete disregard and disrespect for Diana. The "saintly" man even made fun of Diana's buliimia and put her down in public.

Diana did not stalk Hoare. The man himself was quite willing...even though he was supposedly Charles' friend. It was by no means a one sided thing and calling Diana the "stalker" is rewriting history. Nobody forced Hoare to pusue Diana.

Had Diana had not been used for her eggs and womb and discarded I doubt she'd have looked at another man. As KF said the mistress did not want them to have more than two children and what the mistress wanted she got...

Jane what are you talking about?  You really believe in St. Charles Spin and it shows even calling Diana "crazy."

Why did he have heirs with such a "crazy" woman if he were so "saintly."

Why don't you tell us how you really feel about Diana Jane?

Charles clung to a scheming woman who had no use for Diana and wanted her out. I think Camilla has something wrong with her and so does Charles. Missing any sort of heart of compassion and just out for themselves. If you admire them that's your choice.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 25, 2014, 01:55:10 pm
she called him up at all hours and would hang up the phone - it became so bad Hoare called the police who were the ones who discovered it was Di - Hoare did not press charges. 


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 03:18:56 pm
Diana broke up with Hoare not the other way around. You can look it up.

When the man gets absolved and Diana gets demonized it seems a bit on the sexist side--Hoare cheated on his wife previously so this was a practice of seeing other women on the side. He was no angel so it is all not on Diana's shoulders.

Wharfe said Hoare called Diana up all the time and pursued her and he was there.

And then there was Diana's husband feeling anything goes--and married women were not off limits.  He was being "civilized" according to the Highgrove Set. There was a documentary about Lady Tryon and her hubby played the civilized husband waiting a respectable length of time to return home to give Charles dibs on his wife. Gross.

As I said had Charles not just seen Diana as a means to an end and dropped the mistress, I think they could have made a go of the marriage. He wanted heirs and there was Diana...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 25, 2014, 03:42:46 pm
And when the woman is sainted for everything she does and the man is demonized in total for every crime the saint ever committed I just shake my head in disbelief.

http://martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/aug2007/diana_myth.html

The term "stalker" did not come from me.  Calling someone as many times as she did IS stalking. It matters nought who broke up with whom and who knows the truth anyway?

As for them ever having a relationship I read in one book that Charles had said words to the effect of preferring death over more time with Diana.




Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 03:44:38 pm
I notice that the men are not demonized by some, it's just Diana who is condemned.

Nobody said Diana was a saint.

Charles talking about Diana that way just shows what a jerk he is. He got his kids from he then threw her away like a peach pit. How anybody can think that man "kind" is beyond me.

Charles expected Diana to bear his children and look the other way while he went off and did a married women who lived at convenient driving distance. what sort of a man acts that way?  Diana just pestered Charles so much and the poor guy deserved to be happy with his mistress.

And APB and Lord Tryon rolled over and played dead so Diana should have been tolerant. Such torture for Chuck.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 25, 2014, 03:55:32 pm
Sandy, with all due respect, by permitting Diana an excuse on absolutely everything and anything she did is no one sainting her but yourself by way of always exempting her from the realms of humanity. 

I'm not saying there was excuses for Charles and everything he did, there isn't.  He wasn't perfect by a long shot, but according to your own words Diana could never,ever,ever do anything wrong or anything she could be held responsible for.

I admit, I don't understand Diana, but neither do I understand logically how you appear to view her as someone who has never, and could never be held culpable. 

Earlier in the posts you said to Jane 'why don't you tell us what you really think about Diana'.  Or words to that effect.  Now if I recall, Jane is very young and still in her twenties, should she not gain concessions for her youth? 



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 04:05:30 pm
Had it been normal circumstances, Diana would have divorced and gotten custody of the children had she realized Charles preferred someone else. She could have walked away. But she was married to the Prince of Wales, divorce discouraged and the children could have been taken her from had she "bolted."

She was put in a spot that nobody should have to deal with.

Did I say Diana could never do wrong?  But I think Charles did not do right by her from the get go. If he wanted a broodmare and knew he preferred Camilla he should have spelled this all out to Diana before he proposed. He could have found somebody who would go with the perks and not expect love. IMO. He married Diana for expediency's sake. Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana wondered how Charles could marry a girl so besotted with him knowing he preferred Camilla. And Charles admitted this to Dimbleby that he preferred Camilla. That is wrong on so many levels.

Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

Alexandra looked the other way when Edward cheated rampantly on her.  But at least he did not leave her bed for good when he ran to one of his mistresses--he did not stop at 2 children because the mistress told him to. But Alexandra paid a price, she clung to her children a little too much dressing her adult daughters in little girls outfits, and keeping a daughter from marrying so she'd have a lifelong companion. She was sickly and used passive aggression on Edward.  Diana was only 23 and could not divorce so I guess she should have stayed celibate and watch Charles go to live it up with Camilla. I think had Diana not sought comfort elsewhere she might have been like Alexandra, sickly and long suffering. I think women should not be treated as chattel to put up or shut up. Diana was right to complain.

I also might have felt less critical of Charles had he not sat back and let his cronies put out the Diana is Crazy and Promiscuous spin which Jane apparently believes. Such spin re: a dead woman is wrong on many levels. Joan Rivers is a good friend of Charles and cackles on TV trashing Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 25, 2014, 04:40:56 pm
Had it been normal circumstances, Diana would have divorced and gotten custody of the children had she realized Charles preferred someone else. She could have walked away. But she was married to the Prince of Wales, divorce discouraged and the children could have been taken her from had she "bolted."

True.  I do agree with this, although she could have bolted before getting pregnant. She could have taken the pill and chosen to leave.

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She was put in a spot that nobody should have to deal with.

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Did I say Diana could never do wrong?  But I think Charles did not do right by her from the get go. If he wanted a broodmare and knew he preferred Camilla he should have spelled this all out to Diana before he proposed. He could have found somebody who would go with the perks and not expect love. IMO. He married Diana for expediency's sake. Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana wondered how Charles could marry a girl so besotted with him knowing he preferred Camilla. And Charles admitted this to Dimbleby that he preferred Camilla. That is wrong on so many levels.

No, you have not said she could do no wrong, but anything she had got up to you excuse, and in a way it comes over as Diana being able to do no wrong by omission of any words that state 'ok what Diana did here wasn't such a great idea' or words to that effect.

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Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

I don't for one second get the impression that Jane loathes Diana.  I've never had that impression at all.  I think Jane sees what she sees and says it. 
I see some of her thought processes as very strange even those written pre marriage, pre Charles.  Something was not quite right there way before she married, but on the other hand neither was Charles!

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Alexandra looked the other way when Edward cheated rampantly on her.  But at least he did not leave her bed for good when he ran to one of his mistresses--he did not stop at 2 children because the mistress told him to. But Alexandra paid a price, she clung to her children a little too much dressing her adult daughters in little girls outfits, and keeping a daughter from marrying so she'd have a lifelong companion. She was sickly and used passive aggression on Edward.  Diana was only 23 and could not divorce so I guess she should have stayed celibate and watch Charles go to live it up with Camilla. I think had Diana not sought comfort elsewhere she might have been like Alexandra, sickly and long suffering. I think women should not be treated as chattel to put up or shut up. Diana was right to complain.

No, not for one second do I think celibacy was the answer for Diana or any woman.  I think under the circumstances waiting for a divorce or legal separation would have helped, or at least withheld herself from the Morton book and Panorama interview.  IMO the latter lost her a lot of respect.  I agree she was right for her to complain and want out, most certainly.  But no one on this earth can convince me that Charles didn't love her to begin with - there is too much photographic evidence to support that love did exist and something killed it, and I'm not convinced it was Camilla.

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I also might have felt less critical of Charles had he not sat back and let his cronies put out the Diana is Crazy and Promiscuous spin which Jane apparently believes. Such spin re: a dead woman is wrong on many levels. Joan Rivers is a good friend of Charles and cackles on TV trashing Diana.

In fairness Charles isn't responsible for what Joan Rivers does.  He is responsible for what he does.   Each of us are responsible for ourselves and cannot control another.  I'm unsure of what I think about Diana's mental stability, but I don't use the word 'crazy' despite a disorder any person may have. 

Diana did exhibit signs of two disorders without Charles saying a word.  I honestly have never heard Charles say anything about Diana's mental stability and don't really care to.  I've seen a lot being married to a psych though, and some people with disorders are the most brilliant, clever and talented people you could hope to meet, but can be hell to live with.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 25, 2014, 08:48:40 pm
Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 26, 2014, 01:26:53 pm
Sandy, I must commend you on all of your well researched balanced knowledge of the marriage between Charles and Diana. Your insight is excellent. I completely agree with all that you said. If Camillia hadn't been behing the scene being the grand puppet master controling Charles, that marriage would have surely survived. It is so tragic that it didn't.  Camilla has a lot to answer for. I hope she is happy where she is today with all of the jewels, power and status. I sure wouldn't be able to enjoy it with that kind of massive guilt on my head. There is going to be a major day of reckoning for her. And, it won't be pretty.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 26, 2014, 02:28:19 pm
ITA Sandy.
I read a piece about Diana's father recently and he was depressed for years when Diana's mother ran off.
Her childhood was not easy and that's why she IMO must have been madly in love with Chuck.
Otherwise she wouldn't have married so soon and so young, I guess she thought that love would conquer all( as girls of that age think).
Chuck was lucky to have a young beautiful vibrant wife but he threw it all away on the Wrinkly Homewrecker who plays him like fool, the Tampon Tapes illustrate that.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Jane23 on August 27, 2014, 08:59:30 am
Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.


Problem is The Prince never gave Dimbleby an interview he just let the man do his thing there NO proof whatsoever he has ever bashed his parents or Di in fact when Dimbleby wanted to write Di was basically insane The Prince's people stopped him and he has said so ...


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 27, 2014, 10:58:35 am
Diana was not insane.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 27, 2014, 03:03:19 pm
Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.


Problem is The Prince never gave Dimbleby an interview he just let the man do his thing there NO proof whatsoever he has ever bashed his parents or Di in fact when Dimbleby wanted to write Di was basically insane The Prince's people stopped him and he has said so ...

Did you read the book Jane? It is full of criticism of the way his parents raised him even down to their missing one of his birthdays. If there were not bashing how come his siblings complained? Read the book Jane before making statements that he did not do it.

Diana was not insane. Again the bashing of a dead woman.

Diana was still alive when the Dimbleby book came out, had he made statements about her "sanity" Diana would have hit him with a lawsuit. Diana and Dimbleby met in person and he never said she was "insane."

Did you see the interview on TV Jane, Charles did give Dimbleby an interview. And he let Dimbleby have access to his friends and his papers. Dimbleby had to run things by the Prince. Do you honestly think Charles just would let Dimbleby write the book without his full cooperation and approval of the contents? Dimbleby was the Authorized Biographer for the Prince.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 27, 2014, 04:33:33 pm
Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Sandy, I apologize for not spelling out every word and detail.  From what is written Diana always took the pill, therefore she was not averse to taking the pill.  If she was so unhappy from the get go - that is what I mean - then she could have prevented children which would have got her out a lot sooner.  That fertility test was quashed by both her and Fergie as being false information as was any checks on virginity, although Diana's uncle vouched for her virginity even though it is questioned.  How an uncle could vouch for that - just shaking my head.  ???



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Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

Who would have stopped her physically from walking out?  

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AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

I 'seem' to is the operative word'.  Diana could well have been allergic to other forms of contraception - many women are - I am one of those women!

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Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.


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Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

There is never, ever, ever one person alone responsible for the breakdown of a marriage.  Please point out where I excuse Charles from the part he played?  Or is it simply that you don't read me saying 'Charles was wrong to do this.'?  Just like I say to you with Diana?   I have forever said this marriage or farce of a marriage sits with many grey areas - there is no black and white possible because both parties were damaged goods to begin with - yes, from their childhoods. Both!!!!!  Neither were capable of giving each other what they needed.  Both missed out. Both were lonely and miserable.

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Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

I have never seen the Dimbleby interview, but would very much like to.  I have read of how Charles was treated by his so-called Mother, and in all honesty the queen wasn't a good mother - she did neglect her son. Fact.  Diana also suffered as a child. Fact!

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Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

True.  I am not a psychiatrist. But how can you state with such outright certainty what I'm qualified for and what I'm not ?  Pray tell because I'm very interested.

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Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

What would it take for you to actually accept that I'm on no ones 'side'?  I left that behavior long gone in my childhood.
You do verbally excuse Diana for absolutely everything.  I excuse neither party.

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Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

Yes, there is a LOT wrong with Charles doing that to Diana.  Diana also did her fair share. This is why I stand by the fact that they both sabotaged their marriage.  IMO it should never have been.

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You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.

Pardon? I never said any such thing.  What I stated, perhaps poorly, was that Charles need not have said a word - Diana exposed herself by things she self-admitted, at the time this was not a smart move on her part as she painted herself as emotionally unstable.  She gave out too much for anyone with any knowledge to ever state she was a stable person.
I have not ever praised Charles!

For the record, I am not one of Penny Junor's followers or believers nor have I ever been.  I do not, nor ever have thought Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder!  Period!





Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Stephanie on August 27, 2014, 07:05:43 pm
IMO no matter how you look at it Chuck should cut Campon out.
He should have done that for her EVEN when nothing was going on at that time.
Diana felt threatened by her and rightly so, as history has proven!
Chuck entered the marriage in his thirties while Diana was barely out of her teens, he could have sought therapy to deal with his upbringing and be a giving husband.
But no: Chuck blames his mother( had a kingdom to run), his father(was neglected and traumatized his entire childhood and only at Gordonstoun found a sense of belonging).
He blames his teenage pregnant wife but NEVER blames himself and takes responsibility.
As a pensioner he is still dependent on his ruthless scheming mistress/nanny and Campon needs it to stay that way.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 27, 2014, 09:05:05 pm
Charles and Diana never divulged their family planning. Why should Diana take the pill--men can use protection and if preferred someone else he could have used it or not married Diana in the first place. The purpose in marrying Diana for Charles was to have royal babies. She even had to take a fertility test pre marriage. Why is the onus put on Diana Charles could have been furious if he found out she was stopping the conception of a royal baby.

Sandy, I apologize for not spelling out every word and detail.  From what is written Diana always took the pill, therefore she was not averse to taking the pill.  If she was so unhappy from the get go - that is what I mean - then she could have prevented children which would have got her out a lot sooner.  That fertility test was quashed by both her and Fergie as being false information as was any checks on virginity, although Diana's uncle vouched for her virginity even though it is questioned.  How an uncle could vouch for that - just shaking my head.  ???



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Once Diana married Charles it would be very difficult to ditch him.

Who would have stopped her physically from walking out?  

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AB quite frankly you seem to excuse Charles and put the onus on Diana even down to talking about her taking the pill and blocking royal babies.

I 'seem' to is the operative word'.  Diana could well have been allergic to other forms of contraception - many women are - I am one of those women!

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Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.


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Charles is responsible since he never made Diana non negotiable. His own cousin did a hatchet job on her only this year.  One word to Joan and she as sycophant would never ever say bad things about Diana.  You do your share of excusing and absolving Charles, AB.  So Charles can just sit back and allow people to trash his late ex wife? He invites these people to social occasions. Of course he could have.

Of course Camilla was responsible. She was his long time mistress and she was not about to relinquish Charles.  Of course you excuse her too. Charles said to his biographer that he felt "forced" to marry Diana. That does not scream love to me. And he said he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. And not one word to his biographer of his loving Diana. Diana OTOH said she loved Charles.

There is never, ever, ever one person alone responsible for the breakdown of a marriage.  Please point out where I excuse Charles from the part he played?  Or is it simply that you don't read me saying 'Charles was wrong to do this.'?  Just like I say to you with Diana?   I have forever said this marriage or farce of a marriage sits with many grey areas - there is no black and white possible because both parties were damaged goods to begin with - yes, from their childhoods. Both!!!!!  Neither were capable of giving each other what they needed.  Both missed out. Both were lonely and miserable.

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Charles had the Dimbleby interview where he bashed his parents and Diana. Of course you just focus on the Panorama interview. Charles was heavily criticized for that interview.

And where is the outrage from you about Charles going after married women? Oh no, of course that's all on Diana.

I have never seen the Dimbleby interview, but would very much like to.  I have read of how Charles was treated by his so-called Mother, and in all honesty the queen wasn't a good mother - she did neglect her son. Fact.  Diana also suffered as a child. Fact!

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Diana was diagnosed with an eating disorder and she got it under control. AB you are not a psychiatrist nor have ever treated Diana. You coincidentally echo Penny Junor's "diagnosis" and she's an ardent Charles fan.

True.  I am not a psychiatrist. But how can you state with such outright certainty what I'm qualified for and what I'm not ?  Pray tell because I'm very interested.

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Throwing at me that I excuse Diana is odd considering you are defending C and C at every turn. Even to the point that Charles could not have discouraged the Diana bashing--of course he could have.  And your hinting Diana had psychological issues other than bulimia shows whose side you are on.

What would it take for you to actually accept that I'm on no ones 'side'?  I left that behavior long gone in my childhood.
You do verbally excuse Diana for absolutely everything.  I excuse neither party.

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Charles was witnessed emotionally abusing and putting her down in public (by Jephson) and there's nothing wrong with that?! He and Camilla undermined Diana's self esteem and Camilla and Charles have a lot to answer for. Yet they are not criticized but Diana has the "problem?"

Yes, there is a LOT wrong with Charles doing that to Diana.  Diana also did her fair share. This is why I stand by the fact that they both sabotaged their marriage.  IMO it should never have been.

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You even praise Charles for not "telling" about Diana's very alleged "psychological issues" that you observed. I see this as not being exactly impartial about Charles and Camilla.

Pardon? I never said any such thing.  What I stated, perhaps poorly, was that Charles need not have said a word - Diana exposed herself by things she self-admitted, at the time this was not a smart move on her part as she painted herself as emotionally unstable.  She gave out too much for anyone with any knowledge to ever state she was a stable person.
I have not ever praised Charles!

For the record, I am not one of Penny Junor's followers or believers nor have I ever been.  I do not, nor ever have thought Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder!  Period!





It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either. Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.



Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 27, 2014, 10:26:26 pm
EVERYONE CALM DOWN NOW!

As for psychiatrists, they have to keep their mouths shut or be prosecuted.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 27, 2014, 11:21:40 pm
Diana's therapist did speak out.

I honestly don't believe she is the  "madwoman" of the spin of Charles' pals..

The basic problem was the anachronistic life of the royal family and that Charles had a huge "Edwardian" outlook being close to the Edwardians the Queen Mum and Lord Mountbatten. Mountbatten in a letter that became public chided Charles about his lifestyle saying he'd end up like his great uncle Edward VIII. He must have seen some danger signs in Charles' future and he was right.

I think had Lord Mountbatten lived Charles would have married Amanda Knatchbull and Camilla would have been kept at bay.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CathyJane on August 28, 2014, 03:49:32 am
That's what I've always thought too, Sandy. Uncle Dickie would have seen off Cammie.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 28, 2014, 07:05:22 am
Absolutely, Sandy. There would have been none of this weak, nasty foolishness from PC or his team if Uncle Dickie had been alive. And Good God Almighty, there would certainly be no Middleton factor today either.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: cate1949 on August 28, 2014, 07:17:43 am
cause Uncle Dickie was such a tower or moral approbrium - this is the guy who admitted publically and I quote

" "Edwina and I spent all our married lives getting into other people's beds"

I'd say he was Charles role model.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 28, 2014, 12:01:49 pm
He was not perfect. But when he died Camilla took over as mentor which was not exactly a good thing.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 28, 2014, 06:21:03 pm

It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either.

I agree in total.  I've already said that. 

Quote
Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

I'm not interested in Bradford particularly - she's about as believable as Junor IMO.  Although yes, they had to have been somewhat intimate or we wouldn't have Harry. 

Quote
Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Well, morning sickness kind of goes with pregnancy and I can tell you, it's not the end of the world despite how horrid it can feel, and I don't know why Kate was permitted what she was other than the fact that the queen may not care if she's around or not.   I did read that Diana stated her fertility was never tested and Fergie backed the statement up.

Quote
Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Incorrect!  Extremely incorrect.  Unstable people go every day for help with illnesses ranging from eating disorders right through to more serious disorders.  Many of these people are highly intelligent and carry on their public lives very differently from their private lives with the exceptions of paranoid schizophrenics and such like, although even some schizoidal type personalities are capable of 'acting' normal.  By the way, Bulimia, self harm and suicide attempts are hallmarks of mental illness each within their own right.  Bulimia alone in the DSM is a mental illness. 

You mention Penny Junor whom I grant very little credence to, but apart from her,  Diana's mental health is actually quite the debate for professionals.  They are permitted to say what they 'think', but her (Diana's) Doctors are never permitted to open the books and tell the world. No Psychs are on any person.  K.F is correct, although that doesn't extend to those who have not treated her taking a well educated guess.

Quote
Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22. 

Quote
I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

On this we shall have to agree to disagree. I believe Charles was highly neglected by his mother (there are written examples of this) and by his father.  Anne not so much so as she was of a nature that appealed to her father very much whereas Charles could do no good by his Father.

I do agree that using mum and dad should not go on forever, but in both C and D's case I fully believe they were both damaged by their childhoods and didn't have the knowledge as to how to comfort each other as husband and wife.

Quote
Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.

I never said she was!   :o


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 28, 2014, 06:26:31 pm
cause Uncle Dickie was such a tower or moral approbrium - this is the guy who admitted publically and I quote

" "Edwina and I spent all our married lives getting into other people's beds"

I'd say he was Charles role model.

 :laugh:  thanks for the laugh, Cate  :thankyou:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: CathyJane on August 28, 2014, 07:48:45 pm
 :laugh:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 28, 2014, 08:57:56 pm

It should be mentioned that Diana at the time (of the honeymoon and during the early years ) loved Charles and had not given up on the marriage and Charles apparently had not either.

I agree in total.  I've already said that.  

Quote
Since he was intimate with Diana until ca. 1985 by various accounts. Sarah Bradford even opined that had Charles friends not trashed Diana to him when he first complained about Diana's popularity (over him) they could have worked things out. Camilla though was poison to the marriage. And she even went to the Sun Editor with 'her side' for 10 years.

I'm not interested in Bradford particularly - she's about as believable as Junor IMO.  Although yes, they had to have been somewhat intimate or we wouldn't have Harry.  

Quote
Diana had bad morning sickness and bulimia early on. But was expected to sit at the Balmoral dinner table however sick she was. The royals did not dare do this to Kate when she had morning sickness. She even got to stay with her family.

Since Charles wanted heirs there would have been no reasons to have Diana on the pill. Why else would she have been tested for fertility pre marriage?

Well, morning sickness kind of goes with pregnancy and I can tell you, it's not the end of the world despite how horrid it can feel, and I don't know why Kate was permitted what she was other than the fact that the queen may not care if she's around or not.   I did read that Diana stated her fertility was never tested and Fergie backed the statement up.

Quote
Diana went to therapy for her  bulimia and got it under control. An unstable person would not have been able to achieve that. An Unstable person would also not have received the accolades Diana did. People related to her. She was by no means unstable. Charles had hangups and why did he not go to therapy to get over his grievances that he hangs on to. I think a person who thinks he does not need help has issues.

Only a psychiatrist treating Diana could claim she was "unstable." No professionals ever came forward. Penny Junor who loathes Diana was the "doctor" who called her unstable and spread this gossip.

Incorrect!  Extremely incorrect.  Unstable people go every day for help with illnesses ranging from eating disorders right through to more serious disorders.  Many of these people are highly intelligent and carry on their public lives very differently from their private lives with the exceptions of paranoid schizophrenics and such like, although even some schizoidal type personalities are capable of 'acting' normal.  By the way, Bulimia, self harm and suicide attempts are hallmarks of mental illness each within their own right.  Bulimia alone in the DSM is a mental illness.  

You mention Penny Junor whom I grant very little credence to, but apart from her,  Diana's mental health is actually quite the debate for professionals.  They are permitted to say what they 'think', but her (Diana's) Doctors are never permitted to open the books and tell the world. No Psychs are on any person.  K.F is correct, although that doesn't extend to those who have not treated her taking a well educated guess.

Quote
Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22.  

Quote
I think Charles' mother was not neglectful.  And there is a time to stop blaming mom and dad for his own bad decisions. I see Charles as a grievance collector. Charles siblings never saw their mother as a monster. Some home movies turned up  of the royal family in the fifties and I did not see her "cold" to Charles or Anne. She laughed and played with them and Philip did too.

I think Charles got overindulged by his grandmother and various sycophants and he feels he can do no wrong and points the accusing finger at others.

On this we shall have to agree to disagree. I believe Charles was highly neglected by his mother (there are written examples of this) and by his father.  Anne not so much so as she was of a nature that appealed to her father very much whereas Charles could do no good by his Father.

I do agree that using mum and dad should not go on forever, but in both C and D's case I fully believe they were both damaged by their childhoods and didn't have the knowledge as to how to comfort each other as husband and wife.

Quote
Charles tipped his hand and revealed his own hangups especially to his authorized biographer. Diana was not the only one to go in for the "tell all" way of life.

I never said she was!   :o

Diana saying she did not have the test is hearsay. I never read anywhere of her saying this. If she were infertile I doubt Charles would have married her since heirs were important to him.

Again, why do you keep up the personal comments about my post for Jane. It is off topic and inappropriate. Catch 22 again. Stop going off topic please. I was not attacking Jane and I have every right to think calling Diana "crazy" inappropriate. I was disagreeing with Jane's Opinion which I am allowed to do. Your making assumptions about what I posted to Jane is IMO getting personal with me  AB and truly out of line. You happen to agree with Jane about Diana but I have every right to disagree with Diana  being called "crazy". I think you are bordering on a personal attack of me.

You apparently think Diana was unstable but once again it is your take on her and a bit on the harsh side. She was put in an awful position and I don't blame her for being stressed by it and this is not being "unstable." And once again, Charles sympathizers constantly play the Unstable Diana card which shows some bias. Again, Diana got over the symptoms of bulimia and got it treated. What else did you want her to do?  Anybody can sit down and look at celebrities and say I think he or she is unstable but unless the person has treated the person they cannot possibly know the person is unstable. Heaven help the medical profession if random people are "qualified" to say people they never met are "unstable."  You have your opinion about Diana and I have mine. It is the old defense for the straying husband to say he was married to an "unstable" woman and of course was justified in cheating on her.  I think it is no coincidence that Charles sympathizers play the Diana was unstable card. Diana had an eating disorder brought about by stress.  Think of parents who have bulimic children they love them and don't see them as "crazy" and many of the children to get help and lead productive lives. 

Charles even made fun of Diana's bulimia which makes him appear like a cold blooded bully. That is not "healthy" in the least.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 28, 2014, 10:53:02 pm
Sandy, I was not making any such thing as a personal attack on you - it wasn't even close!

This is exactly what transpired - I couldn't exactly keep up one subject all on my own, could I?

I said:
Earlier in the posts you said to Jane 'why don't you tell us what you really think about Diana'.  Or words to that effect.  Now if I recall, Jane is very young and still in her twenties, should she not gain concessions for her youth? 

You replied:
Jane loathes Diana--she is old enough to to form opinions and she sticks to her opinions. This is a discussion board AB. Comparing Diana's marriage to Jane's opinions is apples and oranges. I do think Calling Diana Crazy a bit excessive and part of Charles' spin.

I replied:
I don't for one second get the impression that Jane loathes Diana.  I've never had that impression at all.  I think Jane sees what she sees and says it. 
I see some of her thought processes as very strange even those written pre marriage, pre Charles.  Something was not quite right there way before she married, but on the other hand neither was Charles!

You replied:
Re: Jane, I have never seen her say one good word about Diana. It's her opinion.  But this is not about Jane, AB so we are off topic.

I replied:
Jane can seldom say a word without being 'told off'.  I'm sorry you feel it bad that I didn't like the way Jane was spoken to.

(That was clearly my end to the topic)

You replied:
Again, Jane is not the topic of the thread. AB, why do you bring her up. She and I disagree on the Diana and Harry topics. We do agree on other things like Will's and Kate's lack of work ethic. I did not object to Jane but to her calling Diana 'crazy' which I am entitled to disagree with and find offensive.

I replied:
It came over as an attack against Jane for having her own opinion.  I sense Jane as young and felt for her. You asked me why and I replied, then you asked me again why I was bringing up Jane, so I replied to you, the same was repeated. Catch 22. 


I shall leave it at that, but please don't accuse me falsely again for being what I felt was polite in replying to you.  I at no time made a personal attack on you.

Yes, I do believe Diana was unstable.  No person on this earth could be classified as stable whilst purging their food, self harming and making suicide attempts.  Just making a suicide attempt can get an every day person sectioned for minimum of three days.  Do you think 'stable' people are sectioned???  Diana needed help medically on a serious level.

As a woman who once suffered Anorexia Nervosa as a young girl I think I can speak with a little knowledge on the subject of eating disorders.  It is a mental illness. 













Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 29, 2014, 12:19:03 am
Ana Bolena you are practically acting like some sort of a judge putting me on trial. Even putting up "evidence."

You are way out of line Ana Bolena.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 29, 2014, 12:26:47 am
Diana was not unstable. She was put in a terrible situation.

I think Charles and Camilla have a lot to answer for.

Nobody who did not treat Diana cannot diagnose her.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 29, 2014, 12:43:53 am
Sandy, I totally agree with everything you have said throughout this thread. The facts are very clear. Poor Diana was put in a terrible situation with Charles and his family. They are a ruthless, passive aggressive lot who are nothing but weak, nasty, sneaky bullies. They disgust me. And with the added factor, of Charles' nasty mean old ambitious rottweiller behind the scenes calling the shots regarding their marriage. HM should have stepped up and put an end to all of their machinations to this TEENAGE VIRGIN but she didn't. Hence the consequences were tragic and quite horrific.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: india on August 29, 2014, 12:45:30 am
By the way, AnaBolena: leave Sandy alone.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 29, 2014, 02:01:03 am
Ana Bolena you are practically acting like some sort of a judge putting me on trial. Even putting up "evidence."

You are way out of line Ana Bolena.

I didn't put up evidence.  :o

I stood up for myself against you accusing me of 'almost attacking you'. 

Sandy, there's an old saying 'it takes nothing to join the crowd but everything to stand alone.'  I debate with you out of interest with no malevolence intended or even felt, even when we disagree.  But I don't have backers and yes, it does take some guts to stand alone.

You say I am way out of line?  For standing up for myself? 

 :dontknow:


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: AnaBolena on August 29, 2014, 02:04:27 am
By the way, AnaBolena: leave Sandy alone.

India, with all due respect, Sandy stands on her own merit quite admirably.   kisss


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: sandy on August 29, 2014, 02:14:03 am
Sandy, I totally agree with everything you have said throughout this thread. The facts are very clear. Poor Diana was put in a terrible situation with Charles and his family. They are a ruthless, passive aggressive lot who are nothing but weak, nasty, sneaky bullies. They disgust me. And with the added factor, of Charles' nasty mean old ambitious rottweiller behind the scenes calling the shots regarding their marriage. HM should have stepped up and put an end to all of their machinations to this TEENAGE VIRGIN but she didn't. Hence the consequences were tragic and quite horrific.

thank you.  I don't know what else there is to say--she had a bad time with C and C and is even derided after she is dead. Charles has to try to justify what he did and even if it means his cronies labeling his late wife and making fake diagnoses.

Charles unfortunately was in the thrall of the other woman and thought he could have the best of both worlds--a life with a fertile woman who could give birth to his heirs and time with the mistress who called the shots all the way.

Camilla saw off women like Anna Wallace and Kanga Tryon and though it took longer, managed to oust Diana.


Title: Re: Camilla's role on Charles' family
Post by: YooperModerator on August 29, 2014, 05:17:08 am
After review, there are numerous issues within the postings that I feel fall outside of Forum Rules.  First, and I'll admit that the topic of this thread is quite loose in its boundaries, there are posters who have made personal attacks, gone into Diana territory which is off topic I do believe and so, secondly, I'm shutting it down for a cooling off period and also to better define what the topic focus should be.  It will be closed for one week and I'll get back to you.  In the meantime, take a breather, consider other poster's POVs and we'll resume after a distancing and hopefully perspective change.  Thank you.  YM