Royal Gossip

The British Royal Family *Windsor* => Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II => Topic started by: FrillyKnickers on December 20, 2012, 06:37:20 pm



Title: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: FrillyKnickers on December 20, 2012, 06:37:20 pm
Well, it's not THAT breaking.  :tehe:

http://www.laineygossip.com/Princess-Catherine-helicopter-arrival-Queens-Christmas-party-for-Buckingham-household-1st-time/25474


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: MOSAIC on December 20, 2012, 09:22:48 pm

I do wish some kind soul would tell Lainey once and for all that Kate is NOT a Princess.  She is not even entitled to be called Duchess Kate.  There is no such title in this country.  She is the Duchess of Cambridge (unfortunately!!)


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: meememe on December 20, 2012, 09:36:19 pm
As the wife of a prince she is a princess but as Princess is a title reserved for those who hold it in their own right or whose husbands don't have actual titles - in otherwords it is the default title when the husband has nothing else she is correctly HRH The Duchess of Cambridge.

Princess Michael of Kent - married to Prince Michael is the only wife of a Prince who uses the Princess title because her husband has no substantive title of his own.

The Duchess of Gloucester, when first married was Princess Richard officially but she was promoted to Duchess when her husband became The Duke - she didn't cease to be Princess Richard but she had a more senior title to use - that of Duchess.

Had The Queen not given William a title, and thus promoted William on his wedding day, Kate would have become Princess William officially but as The Queen did promote William, Kate also was promoted from the lower title of Princess to the more senior one of Duchess.

Strangly many people think that the title Princess is senior to Duchess and yet the only wife of a Prince in the UK who uses Princess is the lowest ranked of those wives - because her husband is the lowest ranked of the princes. The other princes all have more senior titles to give their wives.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: CathyJane on December 20, 2012, 09:38:36 pm
I think I can sleep tonite knowing Waity has been invited.  :tehe:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: giamodel60 on December 20, 2012, 09:42:47 pm
Wrong she is NOT a princess . As confirmed by royal reporter.
It has been explained many times in here .
His royal title is duke of Cambridge that's the one she inherits
Unlike Camilla who could call herself princess of wales as Charles title is prince.

It's all documented in another thread .

I wish people would stop spreading lies she is a princess.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: meememe on December 20, 2012, 10:29:16 pm
She is not Princess Catherine, or a princess in her own right but like every other wife in the UK she is entitled to the feminine form of all her husband's titles including that of Princess but as William has a more senior title to Prince - that of Duke she has the more senior title of Duchess.

The point that most people don't get here is that 'princess' is a default title - and that as the wife of a Duke she is entitle to a more important title than Princess as William was promoted from Prince to Duke so she also was promoted from potentially being Princess William (which she is) but she is also more importantly the wife of a peer of the realm and thus a Duchess.

People think she made the big leapt in her social status on 29th April when in fact that big leap was taken by William.  He went from commone to peer while she entered the Abbey a commoner and left it a commoner.

William wanted her created Princess Catherine so that she wouldn't be called Princess William because he didn't want a title but when the Queen refused to create her a Princess in her own right he accepted the title so that she wouldn't be called Princess William but she is still Princess William - not Princess Catherine of course.  The palace said that she wasn't Princess Catherine and that to call her Princess William would be inaccurate - because William had been raised to the peerage and so above that of a commoner and thus it was inaccurate to use the title associated with the wife of a commoner when she should and more accurately had to use the title associated with the wife of a peer.

Why people think it is a lie to say she is a princess is wrong - it isn't a lie - all wives in the UK automatically are entitled to the feminine of their husbands styles or titles and thus the wife of a prince is a princess but...when the prince has a better title the wife uses that title.

Who would want to be called Princess anyway when they could be a Duchess - why have the lower title?

Pity that so many people don't understand the title system and the order of titles and think that Princess is a senior title when associated with the wife of a prince when in fact the wife of a prince using princess is showing the lower ranking that her husband actually holds.

Which royal wife is the lowest in rank - the one who uses the title Princess.  Do people really believe that Camilla, Kate, Sophie, Birgitte and Katherine aren't senior to Princess Michael (and remember that Birgitte started married life as Princess Richard)?  Did Birgitte actually stop being a Princess when her father-in-law died?  No she didn't - but she stopped using the title Princes because she had a more important title to use - that of Duchess.

This is the explanation I received from BP about Kate's title - that Princess is the default title and once a husband has something more substantive that title is used but the wife of a prince is always a princess.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Acornia on December 21, 2012, 01:20:55 am
I think I get it now...  :tehe:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: serene grace on December 21, 2012, 03:23:36 am
Wrong she is NOT a princess . As confirmed by royal reporter.
It has been explained many times in here .
His royal title is duke of Cambridge that's the one she inherits
Unlike Camilla who could call herself princess of wales as Charles title is prince.

It's all documented in another thread .

I wish people would stop spreading lies she is a princess.

Exactly, the Palace confirmed it directly to the Royal Reporter. All people have to do is ask him what the Palace told him directly, he wrote it a few days after because, he was trying to figure out her title. The Palace told him directly Kate is Duchess of Cambridge, she is not a Princess.

Kate is HRH Duchess of Cambridge.
Kate married the newly created Duke of Cambridge.

People didn't get up in arms when Sarah was called Duchess of York instead of Princess, I don't get why some get so crazy that common Kate was made a Duchess on her wedding day. I actually saw a NBC Reporter pound the news desk, saying 'how dare the Queen make her a Duchess!" ......I was like....I'm going back to bed, people have really lost their minds about this common tart from Bershire.

Kate will become HRH Princess of WALES when William takes on the title from his father,until then Kate is Duchess of Cambridge and that is quite an elegant title.

The Queen knew what she was doing. William can go pound sand, if he doesn't like it.  :bored:

I'll bet Kate never ends up with the Princess of Wales title, I think this marriage will be bust before that ever happens.
She can't even handle her duties as Duchess of Cambridge.  :bored:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: lothwen on December 21, 2012, 08:02:55 am
Well, think about it.  They don't call them the Disney Duchesses, they call them the Disney Princesses.  In the fairy-tale the Duke doesn't marry the Duchess, the Prince marries the Princess. Cinderella didn't get turned into a Duchess, she got made into a Princess.  I could go on and on.

The media has tried to hype these two as the "fairy-tale" romance, and that's why people get so upset that Kate isn't a "Princess"


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: meememe on December 21, 2012, 11:07:55 am
You guys still don't get it.

A princess is the wife of a Prince.  A Prince is a commoner - can sit in the House of Commons.

A Duchess is the wife of a Duke.  A Duke is a peer of the realm - a far more important title than that of princess.

William was promoted on his wedding day from commoner to peer - from prince to duke and so his wife, although still a commoner, was able to move up the feed chain from Princess William to HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - because Duke is a substantive title while Prince is the title of a commoner - like Prince Michael - no substantive title so his wife is Princess Michael.

She is the only wife of a prince who uses the Princess title because her husband has nothing better to give her - even Diana was never Princess Diana but HRH The Princess of Wales but she was a princess - as the wife of a prince - she was Princess Charles (as is Camilla today) but because Charles has substantive titles his wives haven't had to use the default position.

Some people seem to be under the impression that Princess is a more important title than that of Duchess when the opposite is actually the case as Princess indicates that her husband is still a commoner while Duchess indicates that her husband is a peer of the realm.

I will stick with the letter I received from BP - Kate is a Princess but it is inaccurate to call her Princess William, wrong to call her Princess Catherine as she is the wife of a peer of the realm she is entitled to the more important style of Duchess of Cambridge - just as it is now wrong to officially refer to William as Prince William - he is HRH The Duke of Cambridge.  If you look at the CC only two princes are mentioned - HRH Prince Henry of Wales and HRH Prince Michael of Kent.  All the other princes - Charles, William, Andrew, Edward, Richard, Edward (Duke of Kent) and Philip get their titles while, except for Philip, their wives have the feminine of their titles while the Princesses born (also commoners) get the Princess titles.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Freya on December 21, 2012, 12:25:08 pm
^

You could not pay me to care. I just wish she was known by her actions and her deeds.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Snokitty on December 21, 2012, 01:56:58 pm
^ I am with you who gives a damn which one has a bigger title the royals are the biggest benefit scroungers no matter what one calls them.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: lothwen on December 21, 2012, 04:34:07 pm
@ Meemene, I know that I get it just fine.  Your explanation was very thorough and easy to understand.  I was just stating why some people, who don't follow the royals that closely, would be upset about the whole title thing.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: memyselfandroyals on December 21, 2012, 09:45:59 pm
meememe, thank you for the information  :thankyou: kisss


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: giamodel60 on December 21, 2012, 11:43:08 pm
Meememe doesn't get it at all. Do not take what she says as correct it isn't .
I'll get the links when I have time do you can all see.
Kate is not , a princess. That was not the regal title she inherited.
She is not married to the prince of wales, Charles ' title is regal.
She is married to a duke , so like sophie and as fergie was not either ,
Kate is not a princess . The Palace confirmed this .

Sorry , people can cry out all they want
She is NOT. A princess . And she has to now to bow to a whole bunch of people now when
William is not there . The queen wanted her to know her place several ways .


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: June on December 27, 2012, 11:55:36 am
@ meememe: I will extend to you the professional courtesy you seem to expect, yet you do not accord others. You demand a different regime for yourself. So be it. Therefore, I won't question your robust historical analysis.

However, I do recall that it was announced by Royal Reporter that Kate is not entitled to be styled 'Princess'. Make of that what you will. Perhaps it is because she married William as a Duke, as gia asserts?  :sly:

Can someone please explain to me in what parallel universe William was ever a 'commoner'?  :o :-  ???


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: YooperModerator on December 27, 2012, 01:31:27 pm
Why i think that would be williams secret dream to become a rich commoner.... lol


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: June on December 27, 2012, 02:30:34 pm
I think you might be right, but it was a serious question.  :tehe: I don't understand that at all.  :-


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Mon Roi Henry IX on December 27, 2012, 05:50:04 pm
@ meememe: I will extend to you the professional courtesy you seem to expect, yet you do not accord others. You demand a different regime for yourself. So be it. Therefore, I won't question your robust historical analysis.

However, I do recall that it was announced by Royal Reporter that Kate is not entitled to be styled 'Princess'. Make of that what you will. Perhaps it is because she married William as a Duke, as gia asserts?  :sly:

Can someone please explain to me in what parallel universe William was ever a 'commoner'?  :o :-  ???

@June,
He could had been a commoner in another life. Past reincarnations, anyone?  :tehe:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Mon Roi Henry IX on December 27, 2012, 05:57:35 pm
@June,
Seriously now, I'm sincerely confused. Gia asserts KM married as a Duke. Still, he's Prince William. Not that I'm advocating for KM to be called 'Princess' but I'm so confused.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: MOSAIC on December 27, 2012, 07:38:34 pm

Thank you Meememe and Giamodel60 for your explanations and the information, most of which I already understood.
What I was objecting to was the way certain news organisations. here in the UK, in the US and Australian networks persist in calling her Princess Catherine.  That as you say is wrong.  Also wrong is the increasing tendency to call her Duchess Kate.  No such title exists in this country.  It does on the continent.  Maybe she should live there, if only!


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: YooperModerator on December 28, 2012, 02:14:27 am
Princess, Duchess, Countess commoner....What ever!
The title that sticks and counts in my eyes is simple: Lazy Waity
She always was and always will be that 'title' to me :king:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Acornia on December 28, 2012, 04:52:26 am
Re: the Duchess Kate thing, it is wrong, but it's just the shortcut way of the media. Wasn't Diana called Lady Di even after she was married? I've read comments where people get themselves into a fit whenever someone doesn't use Kate's proper title and calls her Kate Middleton instead. Seriously, what's the difference?

akasha - I've also read that some people think that people still calling Kate 'Waity Katie' are just the bitter, jealous types.  :tehe: You don't say.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Snokitty on December 28, 2012, 05:41:26 am
Akasha is the one who got Kate's title correct no matter what the fans want to call her Royal lazy butt.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: June on December 28, 2012, 08:36:10 am
^ I agree.  :thumbsup:

@June,
Seriously now, I'm sincerely confused. Gia asserts KM married as a Duke. Still, he's Prince William. Not that I'm advocating for KM to be called 'Princess' but I'm so confused.

Well, I'm glad it isn't just me who is confused. I'm still waiting to be advised as to why William could ever be considered a 'commoner' - in this lifetime, on the mortal plane.  ???

I believe that gia's explanation is the best and most simple to understand. Otherwise, questions such as the one I posed arise.  :o


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Acornia on December 28, 2012, 10:32:52 am
Maybe Wikipedia has the answer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commoners_in_the_United_Kingdom

Quote
In British law, a commoner is someone who is neither the Sovereign nor a peer. Therefore, any member of the Royal Family who is not a peer, such as Prince Harry of Wales or Anne, Princess Royal, is (technically) a commoner, as is any member of a peer's family, including someone who holds only a courtesy title,

 :sly: :sly: So I take it that the style of Princess/Prince is just a 'courtesy title' even if one belongs in the RF? And since William was given the title of a Duke (a peerage) upon his marriage he made the jump from commoner to peer?

I think it's easier to understand with the nobility. Unless you're a peer, you're a commoner, even if you use courtesy titles. It's just harder to get my head around with 'royal commoners'.  :dontknow:


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: giamodel60 on December 28, 2012, 03:52:20 pm
It was explained in another par of the forum and I can't find it.

The crux is the palace confirmed like , Sophie And fergie she is not a princess
It wasnt like Camilla who thy said would not use the title she should use out
Of deference to Diana.

It's different . Prince of wales is Charles main title

Pwilliams is not ... He is officially duke of Cambridge that is his regal title

And even Camilla couldn't be princess Camilla she'd be princess of wales


http://secretroyalforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=1468


There is Richards comments and our laughter



Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: RedRabbit on December 30, 2012, 07:39:26 am
Quote
Some people seem to be under the impression that Princess is a more important title than that of Duchess when the opposite is actually the case as Princess indicates that her husband is still a commoner while Duchess indicates that her husband is a peer of the realm.

meememe, thank you, I had little idea about the peer/ess system.  I learned a lot from you.  I thought prince or princess outranked everyone that wasn't a fellow prince/ss (though they have their own internal rankings) or king or queen but apparently it's sort of a generic placeholder until if and when a specific title comes along.  Apparently Harry is technically a commoner and Anne declined titles to give her kids a more normal life.  Interesting.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: royalwindsorfan on August 05, 2013, 11:30:47 pm
You guys still don't get it.

A princess is the wife of a Prince.  A Prince is a commoner - can sit in the House of Commons.

A Duchess is the wife of a Duke.  A Duke is a peer of the realm - a far more important title than that of princess.

William was promoted on his wedding day from commoner to peer - from prince to duke and so his wife, although still a commoner, was able to move up the feed chain from Princess William to HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - because Duke is a substantive title while Prince is the title of a commoner - like Prince Michael - no substantive title so his wife is Princess Michael.

She is the only wife of a prince who uses the Princess title because her husband has nothing better to give her - even Diana was never Princess Diana but HRH The Princess of Wales but she was a princess - as the wife of a prince - she was Princess Charles (as is Camilla today) but because Charles has substantive titles his wives haven't had to use the default position.

Some people seem to be under the impression that Princess is a more important title than that of Duchess when the opposite is actually the case as Princess indicates that her husband is still a commoner while Duchess indicates that her husband is a peer of the realm.

I will stick with the letter I received from BP - Kate is a Princess but it is inaccurate to call her Princess William, wrong to call her Princess Catherine as she is the wife of a peer of the realm she is entitled to the more important style of Duchess of Cambridge - just as it is now wrong to officially refer to William as Prince William - he is HRH The Duke of Cambridge.  If you look at the CC only two princes are mentioned - HRH Prince Henry of Wales and HRH Prince Michael of Kent.  All the other princes - Charles, William, Andrew, Edward, Richard, Edward (Duke of Kent) and Philip get their titles while, except for Philip, their wives have the feminine of their titles while the Princesses born (also commoners) get the Princess titles.

oh,i always thought a princess was higher than a duchess.why wasn't Charles and Diana ever made duke and duchess


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: YooperModerator on August 06, 2013, 02:08:12 am
They were
Charles is both prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay (Scotland) and a couple of earls and baron and lord titles as well.
from wiki
Quote
The Prince's style and title in full: His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Extra Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Royal Chief Grand Companion of the Order of Logohu, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty

Most ppl just stick to the first one and since Diana as his wife got all the female versions of those titles she was: princess, duchess, countess, baroness, and lady all in one as long as they were married.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: Tatiana on August 06, 2013, 04:48:49 am
   Prince William and Kate Middleton were bestowed with not one but three new titles. Middleton is now a duchess, countess and baroness -- but not a princess.

  Charles and Diana were also Duke and Duchess of Cornwall, amongst other titles.


Title: Re: BREAKING NEWS: Queen to Invite Kate to BP Royal Christmas Party
Post by: mysha on August 06, 2013, 12:28:02 pm
 :prokates:  still no Princess..how sad. Still as common as muck .They try to continue to sell us the country girl down to earth malarky. No down to earth girl would care, she would be happy knowing in spite of her lack of social standing, she got the man she loves. Love would mean she does not give a jot about titles other than wife............................... :sob: