Royal Gossip

The British Royal Family *Windsor* => Prince Charles and Camilla => Topic started by: Alexandrine on August 22, 2011, 04:13:06 pm



Title: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on August 22, 2011, 04:13:06 pm
Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028820/Prince-Charles-accused-using-charities-lobby-ministers-change-policies.html#ixzz1VlrGw5Xn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/21/royal-charities-lobbied-ministers-officials


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Alexandrine on August 22, 2011, 05:33:28 pm
You can read Charles letters directed to the gov here: (very interesting read!)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-regeneration-trust

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-local-government

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-climate-change

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-greater-london

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-business-skills

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/22/prince-charles-files-international-development


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Princess Alucard on August 22, 2011, 06:53:21 pm
I'm confused...this this good or bad?  :-


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: True Brit on August 23, 2011, 02:22:36 am
It's bad. Very bad. As a would be constiutional heir to the throne he's supposed to button it when it comes to politics. It appears his charities are in line with his political views. By contrast HM is head of hundreds of charities but has never launched her own.

If Charles isn't careful it could well be his undoing. Many are saying as much. Personally I don't think it's all bad such as the Prince's Trust helping the disadvantaged and he was instrumental in saving Dumfries House for the nation but I didn't realise until I read this that he used one of the charities to raise the £27million needed.

Harry and William are also going down this route and, as we've seen from the unusual goings on with the LA polo match and moving funds from their fund into the wedding fund to boost the total, they are leaving themselves wide open to criticism.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: berlin on August 23, 2011, 05:07:57 am
I don't think it's fair that major royals have to be silent and tiptoe around issues. 


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: True Brit on August 23, 2011, 10:09:16 am
Berlin,  :hi: whether we think it's fair or not that is what is expected of a Constitutional monarchy. There is a degree of ill feeling towards HM as she could have objected to the Lisbon Treaty but she didn't - she signed it and look what an utter mess we're in with regard to Europe and the EU.

When she signed the Lisbon Treaty she signed away our sovereignty and it is very very contentious indeed as our rights, although not laid down in one constitutiona like the US, have evolved through the Common Law over the centuries and have all be over-ridden by Lisbon.


It can also be argued (and I think this is the Guardian's beef) that Charles is pushing some highly contentious topics such as Climate Change which may be dear to his own heart but are still being debated and have been discredited. For instance when the University of East Anglia was found to be faking data and destroying emails he actually went over there and told them they were doing nothing wrong and they had his support.

Climate Change is also a big earner for landowners and aristos as they receive huge EU subsidies for windfarms.

Charles' role is not quite as straightforward as it seems.  :think:


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 24, 2011, 06:26:20 am
The problem with HM, is that she doesn't act as monarch and treats her duties as if they are ornamental, not in the interest of Britain. She doesn't even bother keeping her family in line and getting them under her control and taking charge of any situation. She has pretty much failed as monarch and mother and grandmother.

The thing with Charles, is that he has had to define his own role on his own and figure out the limitations out on his own. He gets carried away, but he is still putting hte final touches on a newly carved out role for himself. Before him, there has never been any Prince's Trust or actual role; his predecessors did charity, but never on such a focused way in his own right, or as centered on Britain as Charles has.

He's in a preariously balanced position. On one hand he is supposed to speak up, on the other, he has to spend time being careful not to alienate the government. I did read once though, that Charles' speeches were always reviewed and in tune with govenrment policy, so it could just be agitators picking a fight.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Yooper on August 24, 2011, 06:32:24 am
It's UBER simple.  Any un-elected official has no political voice and if they DO get involved in politics should either be arrested or silenced.  It's that clear. 


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: YooperModerator on August 24, 2011, 06:53:12 pm
The thing is I'm starting to wonder if he isn't wearing to many different hats some times.
As crown prince of England the rules are know and set in stone so to speak, as founder and main fund raiser/advocate for Prince Trust/ Duchy and others I'm not so sure..
Even if he no longer officially was a "CEO" in the Prince Trust he can pull a lot of his weight in that corner without it being openly seen in public.
I wonder why he chooses the open "frontal attack" trough letters to the government rather then use indirect influence to get things done.   :- 
Although... if he doesn't hide his plans (that much) to the public, it shows that he is honest and open for critique (Which he is bound to get a lot for this) and thus points attention towards the issue mentioned (even if it's just for a little while)
And that might be the whole point of the exercise, to get tongues wagging!
Hmmm :think: He's either very sly by being honest and "taking one for the team" or he's acting very stupid...and curse the devil, :sly: but I can't tell which one it is! :dontknow:


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Yooper on August 26, 2011, 06:39:09 am
I still don't get it.  If you are NOT elected by the populace, you do NOT have a political voice.  Is there something I'm not getting? 

I'm sure there is, but the monarchy is either a monarchy that shows up at international decision-making summits, pays taxes, submits to total disclosure of spending, enters political campaigns, or shuts the h up and allows itself to get $ for practically doing nothing.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Alexandrine on August 27, 2011, 02:09:13 pm
That's the idea Yooper but it doesn't usually work that way.

Even if they are supposed to not express their political opinions they just do it in the shadows.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: sandy on September 06, 2011, 05:20:55 pm
The problem with HM, is that she doesn't act as monarch and treats her duties as if they are ornamental, not in the interest of Britain. She doesn't even bother keeping her family in line and getting them under her control and taking charge of any situation. She has pretty much failed as monarch and mother and grandmother.

The thing with Charles, is that he has had to define his own role on his own and figure out the limitations out on his own. He gets carried away, but he is still putting hte final touches on a newly carved out role for himself. Before him, there has never been any Prince's Trust or actual role; his predecessors did charity, but never on such a focused way in his own right, or as centered on Britain as Charles has.

He's in a preariously balanced position. On one hand he is supposed to speak up, on the other, he has to spend time being careful not to alienate the government. I did read once though, that Charles' speeches were always reviewed and in tune with govenrment policy, so it could just be agitators picking a fight.

Nevertheless, the Queen is a respected monarch. I don't see her failing as a monarch--she has fared a lot better as a monarch than with her family--she is not supposed to cross the line and get involved in politics, leaving the politics to the Government. She has been a capable ambassadress for visits overseas and visits by representatives from other countries. Arguably the Queen is a lot more respected than her son Charles. Her son has led a rather untidy life and opened himself up to criticism. The Queen apparently could not or would not control  him or his lifestyle. She just tried to hope the problems would go away by themselves. She also had two other children who divorced --Andrew and Fergie's issues caused her a lot of grief too.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Yooper on September 07, 2011, 07:21:40 am
Monarchy + Politics = Ginormous Mistake

Monarch + Politics ANYWAY =  The END of the Monarchy

Honestly, it's that's simple.  The Monarchy should have zero influence on politics and the government should have no influence from the Monarchy on decision-making. 

An Ideal I know, but the only other choice is getting rid of one or the other. 

Thomas Jefferson knew this a long time ago. 


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Kingdom Hearts on September 08, 2011, 07:16:07 am
I think it's her age that is catching up with her,please don't think of me as being rude,she seems very humbled but she can not control how her son acts no parent can PC is of age to know better;as for the rest of her family acting like ruthless animals thats all on them she has done her job well,and continues to do so.
I do fear her age is a main concern now,she is past her 70's and is in her 80s?,correct;it's like asking you're 80 yr old grandmum to control certain family members,you most certainly would not blame her for their wrong doing.Charles is still naive and thinks of himself even though I do believe HM should put him and her family back in line.


Title: Re: Prince Charles accused of using charities to lobby Ministers to change policies
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 08, 2011, 10:53:32 am
To be honest, politicians should stop meddling in the affairs of the RF as well in some areas.


Title: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: True Brit on September 18, 2012, 03:16:26 pm
Cannons to the right of us, cannons to the left of us. Onwards, onwards rode the six hundred into the valley of death they thundered.

With apologies to the Charge of the Light Brigade but it seems a few chickens are coming home to roost. This time in the shape of the Information Comissioner (again) and a judges tribunal which has ruled Charles' lobbying letters must be made public.

Quote
The government has for the first time been ordered to disclose copies of confidential letters that Prince Charles wrote to ministers.

The publication of the letters will reveal how the heir to the throne has been lobbying ministers behind the scenes with his strongly held opinions.

In a significant ruling published on Tuesday, three judges in a freedom of information tribunal decided the public is entitled to know how the prince seeks to alter government policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/18/prince-charles-letters-ministers-judges?CMP=twt_gu

Quite another little annus horriblis it's turning out to be. In view of everything that's happened recently I also wonder what will happen in Scotland over the RF being exempt from FOI Act.

Quote
Plans by the Scottish government to keep any communication between ministers and the royal family secret are in direct conflict with the public interest, MSPs are to hear.
Scotland's Information Commissioner has described proposed reforms to freedom of information law as setting a "worrying precedent".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19565565


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Spice on September 18, 2012, 10:15:13 pm
Thanks for keeping watch regarding this issue, TB.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Alexandrine on September 18, 2012, 11:20:44 pm
Neutrality of Prince of Wales might be questioned if 'black spider' memos made public, former aide warns

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9551222/Neutrality-of-Prince-of-Wales-might-be-questioned-if-black-spider-memos-made-public-former-aide-warns.html

So if I get their argument right they cannot publish them because until he is not king he shouldn't be neutral no? But that means that everyone already knows that he is biased. Second what he was doing according to the articles was not simply learning about the gov but trying to change their policies but of course the problem is publishing the letters not what Charles is doing?  :sigh:


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Spice on September 18, 2012, 11:55:06 pm
^Absolutely right, Alexandrine. PC is often unbelievable in his arrogance.

Quote
Sir Stephen Lamport, his former private secretary, said the Prince believes that writing to Government ministers prepares him for when he is made king and will stop the controversial practice when he is crowned.

Um, okay... so how does writing to ministers prepare you for when you are king, the info is meant to flow to you from ministers.  And, of course you won't need to write letters as monarch, because you will have 30 minutes a week alone with the PM, for an off the record no holds barred discussion/download in secret!

Quote
According to the ruling, Sir Stephen stressed that the “public perception” of the prince’s party political neutrality was “of crucial importance” and that “public knowledge” of his letters could damage it, particularly after he became king.

Just so you're aware, Chucky, the public perception is that you are about as politically neutral as a speechwriter at a political party convention.  And that you would rather like to reincarnated as a tampon.

Quote
In June 2001 the Prince complained to the then Lord Chancellor Lord Irvine, that the UK was “sliding inexorably down the slope of ever increasing, petty-minded litigiousness”.

It's rather petty-minded litigiousness to sue a foreign magazine for publishing photos taken from a public road, when the horse had already bolted, and there was a public interest in reporting celebrities shirking their taxpayer-funded duty anyway.





Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 19, 2012, 12:06:08 am
NO one in that family has any business involved in the government without oversight; it takes a lot of nerve of Charles since after all, the RF has a long established record of lying with a straight face to the public and bluntly asking for more and more and more money that they have no real right to.

Quote
It's rather petty-minded litigiousness to sue a foreign magazine for publishing photos taken from a public road, when the horse had already bolted, and there was a public interest in reporting celebrities shirking their taxpayer-funded duty anyway.

Quote
In June 2001 the Prince complained to the then Lord Chancellor Lord Irvine, that the UK was “sliding inexorably down the slope of ever increasing, petty-minded litigiousness”.

Meanwhile his own son is on a rampage like a madman going against a publication and now trying to get a photog jailed and with a stain on the permanent record.

Quote
Quite another little annus horriblis it's turning out to be. In view of everything that's happened recently


I can't feel sorry for HM over this; she failed to do the right thing her whole reign and the RF is bringing this on themselves, there hasn't been real persecution. They have no problems pushing people around and now that people are pushing back, apparently the RF doesn't like it. Well, tough; if for once they would take personal responsibility for the results and problems in their lives, they wouldn't have these problems, would they?


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: serene grace on September 19, 2012, 12:11:45 am
Prince Charles may have to create a diversion to put press attention elsewhere. Hmmmmm   :Kate:


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 19, 2012, 12:24:58 am
Too late; anyhting that tops the Cambrdiges would have to be Camilla photographed in all her naked glory.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: serene grace on September 19, 2012, 12:28:58 am
That's what I'm thinking he will use, a continuation of the Cambridge scandal. I'm wondering if a US Hustler type porn publisher will try something with the photos and risk the fallout regardless?

I am not sure of the exact details of the lawsuit but I think if Charles wanted to use more of the story to cover what's coming out about him in the news, he might do it.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 19, 2012, 01:25:16 am
Look, there is no way that a US court will bow (I hope) to a UK Royal Family and I am glad this is being done mainly because since he is in a position where bad choices don't cost him anything personally, but can damage others, he has no business meddling in anything or ordering anyone around.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: YooperModerator on September 19, 2012, 02:37:21 am
So SG you're saying that charles will use this topless scandal to cover up his own little issue with the letters coming out?
It would be a classic magicians trick: distract with on hand and do 'magic' with the other.. :think:

You know....do you think he or one of his entourage perhaps...told the pap's where to find them.  :sly:
After ensuring the youngsters that the place was completely isolated and no way could anyone take any picture of them... :June:
That one picture that showed the spot from wich they took the pic's shows a very convinient opening in the bushes looking right at the house
I was surprised that there were no cipresses or olive tree's surrounding the house it would give some shade and visual protection to the compound.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/14/article-2202895-15046777000005DC-546_634x460.jpgno?

I said it before: this man is a sly fox who knows all the rules and the cheatcodes that come with the game! 8)


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Bella on September 20, 2012, 09:19:14 pm
Akasha--they've pulled it already?? It says--File not found.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: YooperModerator on September 20, 2012, 09:56:19 pm
ah crap! I'll see if i can find it again,
it's nothing special really, it's just the spot where it is assumed the initial pic's were taken
it shows the huge distance from with the image was shot: the bloody villa is tiny from that viewpoint
but it's clear to see that that side of the villa has no bushes obstructing view.



Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: serene grace on September 20, 2012, 10:05:16 pm
So SG you're saying that charles will use this topless scandal to cover up his own little issue with the letters coming out?
It would be a classic magicians trick: distract with on hand and do 'magic' with the other.. :think:

I said it before: this man is a sly fox who knows all the rules and the cheatcodes that come with the game! 8)

Yup, each day they write about his letters I'll bet more Countries release new photos of Kate.  :laugh:


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: YooperModerator on September 21, 2012, 01:43:26 am
Oh how I wish there was a way to prove that theory! :tehe:
We should keep track of stuff like that..
I mean Andy's little issue happened right after the engagement, and was virtually lost in all the wedding mania.
Charly pulled a fast one regarding the royal finances while they were in Canada, I think?
I'm guessing you could say Harry's antic's were a coincidence, but what if not?  :think:
Three's a pattern... 8)


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: dianab on September 21, 2012, 02:36:59 am
Questions:
Do you thinks this story could damage future of Charles as King?

I meant when he be close be king more stories came out of Charles exceeding limits of his position ... I see in some others forums some people thinks William wouldnt have a monarchy for he be king ... with this stories caming, do you thinks even worse stories could came out when Charles is close be king?

Do you thinks this sort of behavior by Charles (abuse of power/his position) could bring the monarchy down definitely (read:the country became a republic)?


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: YooperModerator on September 21, 2012, 02:57:22 am
Frankly I don't think that most Brit's are gonna go for the idea of republic any time soon. (not in my lifetime and I'm in my twenty's)
The RF has such a looooong standing tradition and if there's something I seem to feel from "the British psyche" after all those years speaking to them, it's a huge unwillingness to let go of tradition just because it's the fancy thing to do (I mean they still drive on the 'wrong side' even if 80% of the world doesn't!)  lol
Why repair something if you don't know if the replacement is going to be better...

So no I don't think Charles or William will bring it down, the RF is too interwoven in "being British"   :king:
Ask a stranger to name five typical things about Britain and I'm pretty sure tea, rain, and queen will be somewhere in that list ;)

Again I'm no Brit, and I'm just saying what I sense from talking to regular British ppl in London and Brussels :flower:


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 21, 2012, 05:08:27 am
I think the politicos are using the Kate scnadal to go after what they want out of the RF.


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: dianab on September 21, 2012, 04:22:36 pm
@akasha2411
For what I read and heard the monarchy in UK isn't this popular and they arent there all of this years because the people loves & hero-worship them or give much thought to them – I indeed heard one of reasons they’re there all of this years is because the people dont gives much thought to them. In others forums I'm joined have people lives in Britain who says the people of others countries who follows royalty may have a wrong idea than the british population as a whole see the royal family, who are older people is who cares more about the family and for younger generation have the royals or havent really dont makes a difference. They aren't popular and/or always cover of papers or are high topic (in daily basis) there. The people in itself is indifferent and that the comparation more viable in this case will be as that corrupt politician who keeps reelecting because the people, really, became indifferent.

PS. I hope no one jumped in me because I write it, particularly who’s from countries with no links with the monarchy and only because likes follow royalty want made generalizations about what her/his country thinks about the royalty.

PS.I already see royal reporters, editors of mags, newspapers saying it no one give much a thought for/to royals that's one of reasons Charles can marry Camilla. Because the people is indiferent to them when Diana was alive the things were the opposite.

PS.I also read or heard the same thing on others countries with royalty is because it they (the royals) never challenge the PMs et al. Because this I'm asking this question about Charles & the future of monarchy...


But for the country became republic isnt Parliament would decide? I see others forums people commenting William have such dislike/*despise* for his position that could one day decide abdicate and someone else said this could initiate an discussion about royalty is needed or not...


Dick Arbiter said once: There are those inside the Palace and out, myself among them, who say "God Save the Queen" and really mean it. Perhaps they are worried about what comes next.

Dick Arbiter is a true royalist and I dont think he would tell it for nothing ....
 :flower:


Title: Re: Charles ordered to publish his lobbying letters.
Post by: Spice on September 22, 2012, 09:21:57 pm
I think one or more of the commonwealth "realms" eg Jamaica, Australia, NZ, will become a republic within, say, 20-30 years.

This timeframe will be sped up if the BRF behave sufficiently badly, and one of the biggest risks is PC's political interference.  It will only get worse once he is King.  I can't see HM living past 95, which is a mere 9 years away.

I support the republican movement in the UK but I agree the monarchy is so woven into the national consciousness that it will take longer than it will for the other realms.  In the meantime, the policies of Republic UK can be used to draw attention to the many scandals-in-waiting such as the misuse of money and power.  Short of throwing out the monarchy, there is scope for parliament to make adjustments to the system.  It will be very hard to do, because the monarchy wields so much power in political life.  That is why Republic UK policy is to replace the monarchy entirely rather than push for adjustments.

As PW and WK's stars fade over the next 2 years (as a result of their foolish behaviour causing scandals and making them worse by suing) the UK media might come out of their shells a bit more and start exposing PC's political interference and money wastage more. I think the media is trying to lay off too much criticism of HM in the jubilee year.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: dianab on September 25, 2012, 05:00:17 pm
@Spice

:goodpost:
I do think Charles is his own WORST enemy ... I dont doubt he would have problems in accept the limitations & irrelevance (read:he will be only a figure-head) of his role.


Why you thinks the Queen wouldnt live past 95?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Spice on September 30, 2012, 10:13:25 pm
^Because while her mother lived to 101, that is extremely rare, and so I've picked a number that I think is more probable.  HM has her father's genes, and none of his siblings lived beyond their 70s.  HM seems very healthy and obviously has the best medical care and lifestyle money can buy, so I think she should last a few more years at least.  PP is nearing the end and his death will be hard on HM.

So in summary, factors suggesting a long life:
-QM's genes
-Good health (she's made it this far)

Factors working against that:
-George VI's genes
-PP's illnesses and death will cause stress
-Most people don't make it to 86, let alone older.

Obviously I'd love it if she lived beyond 95 (as long as she has good quality of life) but I'm trying to be realistic, especially as the politics of the BRF and the UK itself will be dramatically affected when she is gone :(


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on September 30, 2012, 11:25:10 pm
Charles, if he wants a bigger role, should certainly publish his letters and get used to transparency. Any politician in the US understands this and there is nothing that any politician can get away with half the secrecy that Charles has. The people have a right ot know.
 
Quote
Factors working against that:
-George VI's genes
-PP's illnesses and death will cause stress
-Most people don't make it to 86, let alone older

I don't think that HM can get too far since after all, she's possibly dealing with a horrendous amount of stress and I don't think she can keep herself going.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: serene grace on October 01, 2012, 01:10:00 pm
How convenient for Pr.Charles and the Queen with the release of letters, that Kate's TOPLESS now Bottomless photos are still the main news story for Royals.

I still think Kate's Topless photos were a great opportunity to divert eyes from news stories someone probably knew were coming.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: YooperModerator on October 01, 2012, 08:44:19 pm
Indeed  ;)
What a coincidence huh? :tehe:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 12, 2012, 06:10:59 pm
Prince Charles letters: bid to keep parts of missives to ministers secret

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/12/prince-charles-letters-legal-attempt


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on October 12, 2012, 08:05:53 pm
I think Charles has been meddling in the government business and I think the MP's have been listening. Look at the state of the country and you know they aren't worried about the People.

IMO the country would be better off without Charles as King and without any Minister who did not respond to Charles's interfering letters with the answer "Sir you are not a private citizen and should not be trying to send us your orders". Knowing Charles they were more orders than suggestions.

I want to read these letters and if they have nothing to hide I see no reason for them not publishing them.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Anne-Elliot on October 16, 2012, 01:43:24 pm
Quote
Attorney general blocks disclosure of Prince Charles letters to ministers
Grieve overrides freedom of information tribunal, saying release of letters 'could damage prince's ability to perform duties as king'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/16/attorney-general-blocks-prince-charles-letters


Outrageous decision.  You keep on meddling in Government business Charles, & you won't have a thorne to ascend.   :angry:



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 03:04:39 pm
^^ Agreed, if he has made something that doesn't make him appropriate for King people should be able to know.

Can someone explain why the attorney general can veto a court order?

Hayley J. Hooper: Keep Calm and Carry On?

http://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2012/10/16/hayley-j-hooper-keep-calm-and-carry-on/


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on October 16, 2012, 03:05:45 pm
I think this decision will hurt Charles in the long run because now people's minds will create all types of interference that could be in those letters. There is a chance the people will protest Charles taking the throne when the time comes.  :cookie:

http://www.republic.org.uk/updates/?p=696&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 05:09:45 pm
Charles in charge?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19966376


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 09:35:10 pm
This is an extraordinary statement by Dominic Grieve (the Attorney General) he's more or less saying that he is having to stop the public seeing just how unsuitable PC is to be King. It looks like it doesn't end there now as the Guardian are set to take this to the Supreme Court.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 09:44:12 pm
Attorney general vetoes Prince Charles letters publication

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19959233



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on October 16, 2012, 09:54:44 pm
Idiot; in the US, we have transparency for a reason, mainly because the people in charge make choices that affect us. If Charles wants power, he has to be subjected to complete transparency and understand that increased scrutiny comes with the territory.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 09:55:36 pm
The judges took over two years carefully weighing up all the evidence before they ruled that the various departments would have to publish the various items of correspondence. I don't think we've een the end of this by a long way.

Quote
Finally, the case reached the freedom information tribunal, which, in a 126-page ruling, overturned the previous series of decisions.

The ruling, led by Mr Justice Walker, dismissed Whitehall arguments that disclosure would damage Britain’s constitutional structures as having a “strong air of unreality” and being “difficult to pin down”.

They rejected the suggestion that his correspondence with ministers must be allowed to remain secret under a constitutional convention allowing him to prepare for kingship.

The judges said the evidence showed Charles using his access for ministers “in order to set up and drive forward charities and promote views, but not as part of his preparation for kingship”.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/9612471/Seven-year-battle-to-win-disclosure-of-Prince-of-Wales-letters-to-Government-ministers.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 10:19:41 pm
TB what's the new step? I still cannot understand why the attorney general can stop the letter being public?  ???


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on October 16, 2012, 10:37:17 pm
Alex, the reason these ministers (and by default the RF) can do this stuff is because apparently there is no Constitution that ends up defining the roles and limits of the RF, government, etc. There is nothing legally there to stop anyone at the top doing whatever they want with anything.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 10:41:48 pm
I couldn't quite grasp it either Alexandrine. Dominic Grieve is usually level headed and he is a barrister I believe but he should be ashamed of this decision. He has put himself above the law of the land and the judges careful deliberations.

According to the Guardian's comment this evening:
Quote
"The law allows ministers to veto the release of documents in exceptional cases, mainly where cabinet government is deemed under threat. But it is neither clear nor reasonable that the law extends to a case like this – the matter should be tested."

They also state:

Quote
In his attempt to justify the unjustifiable, Mr Grieve has clutched at a fragile constitutional doctrine and adopted a deeply dubious legal course. The doctrine is that all letters from the prince are part of something called "preparation for kingship". This medieval-sounding notion is far too sweeping – as the courts themselves have found. It is an invented tradition, a conceit devised for the purpose of getting this particular prince off the hook. A moment's thought shows it to be a nonsense. Where is the line drawn if other lesser royals fire off letters as self-indulgent as the prince's? How long – five years or 50? – is a prince deemed to be "preparing for kingship"? When, if ever, are preparations complete? Mr Grieve's doctrine seems to imply that writing foolish letters to ministers is a princely duty. This merely pours petrol on the flames.

The dubious legal course is the claim that such matters are protected under the FoI laws. This is highly questionable. The law allows ministers to veto the release of documents in exceptional cases, mainly where cabinet government is deemed under threat. But it is neither clear nor reasonable that the law extends to a case like this – the matter should be tested. Ministers pretend their concern is to protect the proper training of a good and useful prince, when in fact it is primarily to cover up for the constitutionally dubious blunderings of an indulged and even dangerous dauphin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/16/prince-charles-letters-cover-up-editorial

They also state they will appeal. They could take this right to Europe as I read elsewhere that most of the letters involve environmental matters and these have to be disclosed to the public. I think Charles is in deep doo doos here. Let's watch this unravel. Republic is upping the pressure as are FOI campaigners.

Quote
Following his decision, the Guardian announced that it would be seeking to take the government to the high court to challenge the veto on the grounds that it had acted unreasonably.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/16/attorney-general-blocks-prince-charles-letters



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 10:50:47 pm
@KF they do have a constitution but not in the traditional way! They just can't do whatever they want to.

TY True Brit, as Snokitty said in the long run it will harm him, when the Queen dies I'm sure all these news that are somewhat hidden will come out again to hunt him.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 10:55:01 pm
Timed out this is a copy of the guidance explaining who can use the veto and when. It does say the decision has to be presented to both the House of Commons and the House of Lords as soon as possible. I wasn't watching Pariament today but assume he presented it to the Commons along with the good decision to apply to have the Hillsborough Inquests re-opened.

Hiding the dodgy news behind the good stuff.

It looks like it would have had to have been a collective Cabinet decision. Just what are they trying to hide?

Quote
However, in accordance with our overarching commitment to use the power only in exceptional cases, such consideration would be preceded by a collective Cabinet view on whether it might be appropriate to exercise the veto in a given case. In making his or her decision, the Cabinet Minister or Attorney General (acting as the accountable person) would be entitled to place great weight on the collective assessment of Cabinet in deciding whether or not to actually exercise the veto.

http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2012-1316/HMGVetoPolicy4.pdf

KF we have an unwritten constitution which is based on the Common Law and Statute and even stretches back to Roman Law.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 10:59:12 pm
Republic and the Guardian won't stop until the letters are public; they are probs nothing special but will show that charles what he cannot do and people *despise* him meddling with state affairs.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 11:05:43 pm
In a way the AG has admitted they are out of order - otherwise why not just publish them. I think the Guardian journo David Evans has been on the case for more than five years so they aren't going to give up any time soon.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 16, 2012, 11:08:15 pm
I didn't mean that they were appropriate, simply that they will be something all of us expect from Charles, I doubt that there will be many surprises if they are released to the public.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Leila on October 16, 2012, 11:10:03 pm
A comment from one of the guardian articles linked to upthread:
Quote
Ribena

16 October 2012 1:04PM

    Disclosure of the correspondence could damage the Prince of Wales' ability to perform his duties when he becomes king

Staggering that this could be used as a reason for NOT publishing.

I have had enough of this bunch of overpriveleged, meddling pillocks. In every other area of public duty, we have to have transparency, but when it comes to the Royal Family, the whole thing goes out of the window because they have to be SEEN to be politically neutral, rather than to actually BE politically neutral. If Charles shouldn't be meddling, then he shouldn't be meddling. It's not good enough to say the he can meddle, but we just can't know exactly what he's meddling in.

This is a disgrace and a scandal and needs to be blown wide open. DO NOT LET THIS GO.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on October 16, 2012, 11:17:42 pm
Have we seen this blog on the subject? By a constitutional lawyer.

It confirms what I have long thought to be the situation that the Heir to the Throne has no constitutional position and that PC has created a role for himself. Incidentally if he has no official position then PW's role is even more remote.

Quote
The Constitutional Position of the Prince of Wales as Heir to the Throne
 
It should be noted that none of the parties to the litigation contended that Prince Charles’ activities of “advocacy” to government ministers was at any time or would be unconstitutional. The tribunal decided that there was no established constitutional position for the Heir to the Throne. However, it was noted by Counsel for Mr Evans that Prince Charles’s self-perceived role has been described on his behalf as representational, “drawing attention to issues on behalf of us all” and “representing views in danger of not being heard”. For an account of the Prince of Wales’ activities vis-à-vis his role as Heir to the Throne, the Tribunal drew heavily upon a 1995 article in Public Law by the expert witness for the seven government departments, Rodney Brazier, entitled “The Constitutional Position of the Prince of Wales”. In the 1995 article, Brazier pointed to several features of the Prince of Wales’ activity which were, in his view, “novel” or “surprising”. These included the fact that Prince Charles had arrogated for himself the right to communicate directly with Ministers on affairs of government. Also, Professor Brazier’s 1995 piece pointed out that the Prince was insisting upon enjoying the same rights as the incumbent Monarch in respect of the “tripartite convention”.

http://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2012/10/16/hayley-j-hooper-keep-calm-and-carry-on/

No I didn't think you meant they were appropriat or otherwise Alex  :flower: it could be some people would agree with whatever he is sounding off about but then that isn't the point he should be as neutral as possible.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: memyselfandroyals on October 16, 2012, 11:39:41 pm
Once a prince, being neutral


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: rogue on October 17, 2012, 11:05:23 am
Do we know who the ministers are that he was corresponding(meddling) with?If it was about the environment than i don't think they ( Charles ) would fight against this.Could he have stated his personal opinion on issues as royal funding ,immigration,politicians,welfare,hunting,Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland?Didn't a poster here said that somebody had stated that if they knew the real Windors all hell would break loose ( could be my imagination)I don't understand why he would write letters when he could have this conversations in private .

Quote
In 2010, the Prince was criticised over his attempt to influence a £3 billion Qatari-backed building scheme at Chelsea Barracks in London, which was shelved after he met the Emir of Qatar for tea at Clarence House.
A High Court judge said Qatari Diar, the developer, regarded his intervention as “unexpected and unwelcome”.

He is supposed to bring business not have them shelved  :thumbsdown:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Anne-Elliot on October 17, 2012, 01:16:41 pm
Great cartoon in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2012/oct/16/steve-bell-prince-charles-cartoon

Nope, the Guardian are certainly not going to give up.   They severely damaged Murdoch's empire,  so they ain't going to be itimidated by the Windsors.   The times they are a changing.....


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on October 17, 2012, 01:39:56 pm
@rogue These are the Departments that he sent letters to.

Quote
Prince Charles wrote seven departments: Business, Innovation and Skills; Health; Children, Schools and Families; Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Culture, Media and Sport; the Northern Ireland Office and the Cabinet Office.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Cressida on October 17, 2012, 01:54:04 pm
I suspect there is something in the letters which would make Charles even more unpopular than he already is.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: serene grace on October 17, 2012, 02:00:23 pm
Look for more Kate nudes on the way.  :bored:




Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: rogue on October 17, 2012, 06:44:07 pm
@ Snokitty  :thankyou: 



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 17, 2012, 10:34:58 pm
Prince of Wales letters: Charles also wrote to BBC about its programmes, corporation says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/9614478/Prince-of-Wales-letters-Charles-also-wrote-to-BBC-about-its-programmes-corporation-says.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 18, 2012, 04:28:29 pm
Republic ‏@RepublicStaff
Hearing there will be fresh revelations about Charles's lobbying tonight or tomorrow.

Niraj Tanna ‏@IkonPictures
Conspiracy - Guardian goes to court to seek judicial review of veto on Prince Charles letters. Guardian wins...

Niraj Tanna ‏@IkonPictures
Prince Charles wins public support for letters that have been revealed.

Niraj Tanna ‏@IkonPictures
Just a thought... :o)


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: memyselfandroyals on October 18, 2012, 06:19:43 pm
I suspect there is something in the letters which would make Charles even more unpopular than he already is.

So do I


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 18, 2012, 08:48:16 pm
Prince Charles's charity officials given access to Whitehall elite

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/18/prince-charles-charity-access-whitehall


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Stephanie on October 19, 2012, 10:28:38 am
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/christopher-wilson/prince-charles-no-divine-right_b_1980192.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on October 19, 2012, 10:29:31 pm
I suspect there is something in the letters which would make Charles even more unpopular than he already is.
So do I
There has to be something explosive in there if Charles is fighting as hard as he can to end up concealing them. Not just finance or use of green stuff, but something major that might not at all be related to charity.

Any bets as to whether or not Charles destroys them?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: YooperModerator on October 20, 2012, 11:37:09 pm
well if he send the letters he doesn't have them anymore does he?
and who knows how many copies were made of these since then.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on October 21, 2012, 10:07:54 am
Given that he put it all in writing and as the poster above said they are obviously not in his hands it's safe to say that:

a. HE ain't fighting anything given that again he wanted his thoughts out there...


b. He isn't stupid enough to document anything "explosive" if he wanted to discuss anything "explosive" I am sure he would invite the person he wanted to discuss such things with for tea...he wouldn't write to them  :June:...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on October 21, 2012, 11:20:22 am
Prince Charles has no right to privacy on public matters

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/21/nick-cohen-prince-charles-republicanism


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on October 21, 2012, 11:50:54 am
Quote
If you think Grieve makes Prince Charles sound like a lobbyist seeking special treatment for his favoured causes, you would be right. Allowing the public to see the letters of a prince it pays for and must accept as its next head of state without a democratic vote would, the attorney decided, "potentially have undermined his position of political neutrality". One second, the law officer says the royals must be neutral. The next, he admits that Britain's next monarch is not neutral and the state must censor to prevent the public learning this uncomfortable fact.

This says it all Charles will be unable to remain neutral.

He is going to be a very bad King and he wants the medieval days of the Kings word being law to return.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Stephanie on October 28, 2012, 08:24:15 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9636873/Prince-Charles-seeks-new-employee-to-help-with-his-letters.html
PC feels encouraged to send even more black spider meddling letters.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on October 29, 2012, 07:01:46 am
Do we know who the ministers are that he was corresponding(meddling) with?If it was about the environment than i don't think they ( Charles ) would fight against this.Could he have stated his personal opinion on issues as royal funding ,immigration,politicians,welfare,hunting,Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland?Didn't a poster here said that somebody had stated that if they knew the real Windors all hell would break loose ( could be my imagination)I don't understand why he would write letters when he could have this conversations in private .
Quote
In 2010, the Prince was criticised over his attempt to influence a £3 billion Qatari-backed building scheme at Chelsea Barracks in London, which was shelved after he met the Emir of Qatar for tea at Clarence House.
A High Court judge said Qatari Diar, the developer, regarded his intervention as “unexpected and unwelcome”.
He is supposed to bring business not have them shelved

Madness; he effectively damaged jobs and opportunities for a barracks to be improved on; I mean, this would be for the military, right?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on December 27, 2012, 06:46:04 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/26/prince-charles-black-spider-veto

Quote
Government ministers are heading for another clash with the judiciary over the publication of secret lobbying letters written by Prince Charles.

Cabinet ministers provoked an uproar this year when they summarily overruled three judges and banned the disclosure of 27 "particularly frank" letters that could have cast doubt on the prince's neutrality.

The three judges sitting at a freedom of information tribunal had earlier decided that the public had an overwhelming right to see how the heir to the throne had been trying to sway government policy.

Now the same judges are deciding whether a second set of letters sent by the prince should be published, based on much the same arguments they had considered first time round.

If the judges also decide that this second cache of letters should be published, the cabinet would then be faced with the prospect of having to veto their publication as well.

The tribunal's decision comes amid continuing criticism that the prince has been interfering behind the scenes in the affairs of government and trying to persuade ministers to change official policies.

The AG should have let the letters be published because they will not stop now until Charles is whining more than usual. I figured that was a mistake because things like that just make some more determined.

It looks like Santa may fulfill my wish after all.   :laugh:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: meememe on December 27, 2012, 09:27:20 am
If Charles wrote them assuming they would remain secret it would be wrong to make the public but they could easily make a decision that all future correspondence will be made public after a certain amount of time.

To retrospectively make them public when he believed that they wouldn't be could affect his position.

I am a strong believer that if something was legal at the time it was done, or was done with certain accepted beliefs and practices in place then that should remain the case but that the law/practice can be changed from a given date - just as they are doing with the Line of Succession - only affecting children born after October 2011 and not before so Anne and her descendents don't go ahead of Andrew and his descendents etc.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on December 27, 2012, 01:49:36 pm
Charles is going to pay in some form or another. It would be in his best interest to let the public see the letters, talk about them and then move on to something else. I can see the writing on the wall and they have no intention of letting Charles get a pass on this.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on February 20, 2013, 12:27:55 pm
Upper Tribunal of the judiciary which handles cases for the Information Commissioner over the Freedom of Information Act has ruled that various Governement departments must hand over their correspondence with Prince Charles to the Guardian newspaper.

Robe Evans is the Guardian journalist who brought the action against the ICO and various Govt departments.

The judges ruled it could be released as it meets the definition as follows:

Quote
i) it is held by the public authority;
(ii) it falls within the scope of the request, in the sense that whoever may have nominally been the sender or recipient of the document it in substance constituted correspondence which was either sent by Prince Charles to a minister in the public authority or sent by a minister in the public authority to Prince Charles;
(iii) the document or one or more parts of it constitute advocacy correspondence.

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/tribunals-aac-cases-rob-evans-v-ic-20022013.pdf


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on February 20, 2013, 12:39:59 pm
 :JOY:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on February 20, 2013, 12:51:32 pm
Whoever thinks anything Earth shattering will come out is in for a lot of disappointment ...if The Prince wanted to discuss anything "shady" with anyone he would invite them to tea not put it in writing documenting it ...I think the very few Republicans in the UK are desperate...very desperate!!! But Chuck ain't going anywhere so they better start living with it!!!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on February 20, 2013, 01:02:26 pm
is not about making him go, it's all about transparency and knowing what he is doing and if he is able to do it or not


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on February 20, 2013, 01:28:26 pm
For the love of all that is Holly the man has been Prince of Wales for what 30 years? He obviously knows what he can do and what he can't and no one complained about how he conducts himself ...he obviously can speak his mind and have meetings with Ministers or otherwise he wouldn't!!! I think people confuse being King and being Prince of Wales...obviously being Prince of Wales gives him more freedom that he won't have once Liz proves Mortal he won't do any of the things he does now when he is King!!! The two roles are different !!!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on February 20, 2013, 01:33:20 pm
I think that royals should be accountable of their acts. If he doesn't have to hide anything he won't mind that the letters are made public so there won't be any problem. However, if even the gov intervened to make the publication of some letters it means that all is not as well as it should be. 

Letting royals behave as they want without any transparency or control always ends up badly.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on February 20, 2013, 03:18:51 pm
^ I agree wholeheartedly Alexandrine it is about accountability and transparency and not about a republic or anything near but the Windsors have been living like 18th/19th century monarchs and haven't realised we are now in the 21st century.

It will probably turn out that the contents of the letters are pretty unremarkable - great. If so why not just release them?

Various reasearchers have met with deliberate resistence when genuinely seeking documents and information about the royal family. Professor Phillip Hall who wrote his book on royal finances in 1992 relates how documents would disappear or it would be agreed for them to be seen and that permission would suddenly be withdrawn. Ditto John Kirkhope the Cornish lawyer who is investigating the Duchy of Cornwall. He is having a ridiculous wrangle just to be able to see some documents that he doesn't even know will be of any use to his research until he sees what they are.

I mean why all the secrecy if their legal and constitutional role is so absolutely certain?

It also needs to be noted that Charles - as Prince of Wales - does not have an official role nor indeed any right to denand one even though he is direct heir. What appears to have happened is he has insinuated his way into the Governmental proceedings and various Governments have been too chicken to tell him to butt out. One constituional historian who commented on the situation a year or so ago laid the blame for this situation squarley at the feet of successive generations of politicians.

I very much doubt this will go to the European courts as (IMO) the case has been made for this being of public interest, by a public body and between a public body and a member of the royal family but we'll see as they sometimes appeal to frighten the petitioner over the prospect of heavy costs. Mind you I think the Guardian can afford them but this is why so few individuals brings such cases.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on February 20, 2013, 04:03:08 pm
Thanks True Brit I knew the Guardian would stick with it and I also believe the letters will show that Charles has had his hand in the cookie jar for a long time.   :tehe:

Quote
I think people confuse being King and being Prince of Wales...obviously being Prince of Wales gives him more freedom that he won't have once Liz proves Mortal

When Diana said basically the same thing that Charles likes having the Freedom of being Prince of Wales and he will find being King more confining you said she was saying that he should never be King. So I have to assume you have also decided he should never be King.   8)



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on February 20, 2013, 05:11:36 pm
Why doesn't the man have the basic right that all us normal humans have to write letters?  lol If he gave some people in charge a piece of his mind so what?


@ Snokitty I am not about to divorce him...she should have avoided that question but she loved every minute of answering it plus I just said that he will have another Role once Liz proves Mortal not that he can't handle it which was what Di was implying ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on February 20, 2013, 05:14:29 pm
Since you choose to miss the point of my comment I shall just try to ignore you and your Charles sycophancy.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on February 20, 2013, 06:19:43 pm
Please keep the calm and stop with the hating issue  :stop:

------

Jane There is a difference with you or me writing letters to our MPs as we do not have any power to influence them but Charles have been known to influence goverment actions, should he? It's a problem of the govs but also of what he thinks he can do.

Should the press and other people just let them do whatever he wants without any control? If he is doing things right then it's ok and if it isn't then people have a right to know and censure his actions.

It is not normal that the attorney general or whatever it is his name in UK to stop the publishing of letters the courts consider that should be public, why? They said that it would change the opinion of Charles and wouldn't let him carry his reign when the time came...  :-

Charles as the press have published doesn't only send letters, he lobbies and even has veto rights in some cases. If that changes legislation from state powers that are elected by powers that are not people do have a right to know.

If Charles is great and his behaviour until now is irreproachable it's a possibility but in any case people must get the information to have an informed opinion.

No control in an unelected position of power will only mean corruption and greed.  :sigh:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on February 20, 2013, 08:42:49 pm
Charles isn't:

Trained (life experience does not count)
Educated (art degrees don't count)
Spending 24/7 studying reports and meeting with petitioners
Spending 24/7 with ordinary citizens (appearances don't count)
Willing to make a huge personal sacrifice (Camilla does not bring any advantages and has only complicated his role as future King)

Charles therefore has no business trying to run the country, directly or otherwise. He keeps treating Britain as some sort of lab where he can freely experiment with all he wants and no matter what the real consequences are. Second, because of his position, how is it known that he isn't listening to someone less well intentioned.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on February 22, 2013, 04:18:20 pm
OH boy read this lawyer's blog on the recent decision of the Upper Tribunal in this case. It appears that (let me get this right) the case Mr Evans won was not the one over the actual correspondence which the Attorney General vetoed in September but the second part of his Appeal which was for the lists and schedules of that  correspondence.

It seems that gaining this part of the information is in itself extremely useful. However this case rested on the points of law when the UT made its ruling in September that Mr Evans could not see the correspondence, they failed to rule on the second part of his appeal which was for the lists and schedules of correspondence. It seems the thinking was that if he got the correspondence he could make his own list and schedules and as he didn't win that right it didn't matter. (Are you keeping up with this?)

Mr Evans thought it did. The Govt and ICO lawyers tried to argue that the UT didn't have the power to over-turn it's own decision of September but the Evans' lawyers said it was irrelevant as he wasn't asking them to over-rule anything just make a judgement on the second part of his appeal. Phew!

Which they did and he won. With regard to the Attorney General's veto the whole case is to be re-heard by a judicial review. Mr Evans has been trying to get hold of this correspondence since 2005. And it still has a way to go but it's interesting that one set of judges has ruled the lists and schedules are a matter of public interest but another has said the correspondence isn't. I need some caffeine.


http://www.panopticonblog.com/2013/02/21/upper-tribunal-issues-further-decision-in-prince-charles-letters-saga/


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on February 22, 2013, 04:24:45 pm
Very interesting, thank you for posting the update. If this man makes a book about this I will buy it.  :cookie:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on February 22, 2013, 06:44:44 pm
Wonderful this could be Charles's big Karma year. I think everyone is gearing up to get rid of the Monarchy. They know how close it is getting.   :P


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 08, 2013, 01:16:12 pm
Quote
A legal challenge to a decision which blocks the disclosure of letters the Prince of Wales wrote to ministers will be heard at the High Court today.

The case, brought by the Guardian newspaper, follows the announcement last October by Attorney General Dominic Grieve that he was imposing a veto on the release of correspondence between Charles and seven Government departments.

http://www.societyofeditors.co.uk/page-view.php?pagename=News&parent_page_id=0&news_id=5766&numbertoprintfrom=1&language=%7Blanguage%7D


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 09, 2013, 03:20:45 am
The more Charles refuses, the more people are going to persist. He's lucky the papers have been restrained and scrupulous, but if he pushes, they might be less kind.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Freya on May 09, 2013, 10:02:31 am
Quote
Making the letters public could potentially damage the principle of the heir to the throne being politically neutral, and so undermine his ability to fulfil his duties when king, he said.

That statement seems a bit of a contradiction. If these letters are not politically neutral then he has compromised his position and the public should know. Any other person in public service who compromises their position would be hung out to dry. If his is not politically neutral and favours one party to another then we may as well have an elected Head of State.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on May 09, 2013, 12:19:43 pm
If these letters and pushing politicians with his foibles and are revealed....................karma
If his marriage is illegal and is revealed....................... karma
His involvement in his wife's death revealed.............................karma



Who is going to be brave enough to reveal all, who is going to believe him, who is going to allow it to happen ?

Why is it almost impossible for the public to be told the truth and full disclosure ?  :tired:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on May 09, 2013, 02:21:27 pm
^ Lot of wishful thinking going on there  lol...yeah the man would totally be AS MORONIC as to DOCUMENT that mess...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: CathyJane on May 09, 2013, 09:32:51 pm
If these letters and pushing politicians with his foibles and are revealed....................karma
If his marriage is illegal and is revealed....................... karma
His involvement in his wife's death revealed.............................karma



Who is going to be brave enough to reveal all, who is going to believe him, who is going to allow it to happen ?

Why is it almost impossible for the public to be told the truth and full disclosure ?  :tired:

Dark forces.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Tatiana on May 10, 2013, 05:40:59 am
yups


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 10, 2013, 05:45:35 am
Bluntly, with Charles' interfering in preventing the release of these letters, he is already overstepping the bounds.

Why is it almost impossible for the public to be told the truth and full disclosure ?  :tired:

Because no one in the government has the ability to draw a clear line and end up making the RF abide by the boundaries.

Quote
If these letters and pushing politicians with his foibles and are revealed....................karma
If his marriage is illegal and is revealed....................... karma
His involvement in his wife's death revealed.............................karma

Well deserved karma.

Quote
Who is going to be brave enough to reveal all, who is going to believe him, who is going to allow it to happen ?

There are powerful people in the world that even HM and the rest of the Windsors don't have the guts to cross.

Someone has been mighty angry at the Windsors for quite some time now and ever since the engagement.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on May 10, 2013, 08:43:04 am
^ Why should he let anyone see his correspondence?  :sly: There is a little thing called PRIVACY ...I know I WOULDN'T LET anyone see my emails or messages ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Freya on May 10, 2013, 10:16:34 am
^

These are not just private letters they are letters lobbying MP's. If I was to write to MP's (which I have done in the past) I could expect my letters could be mentioned at PMQ's. This does happen during PMQ's when constituents letters are discussed. Charles should not have political leanings because it is part of the UK constitution that the monarch and heirs are not political. It defies the object of having a Head of State that is not part of the Government. He should also expect that if he writes to MP's that the letters will not be private.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: buflesse on May 10, 2013, 10:19:58 am
Jane23, we have every right to see Charles's letters when they are meddling in public affairs.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on May 10, 2013, 10:30:35 am
^ Why should he let anyone see his correspondence?  :sly: There is a little thing called PRIVACY ...I know I WOULDN'T LET anyone see my emails or messages ...

Agree you should have privacy. You are a private citizen.Charles is not.

Chuckles is a future leader and King. One should lead by example
The Monarch is meant to be political neutral.
If he is trying so hard to keep it under wraps, must be bad or at least interesting
We should be able to trust our Monarch
Chuckles works for US and we pay him

He is not above the law and I am sick of them trying to treat us , the people , as idiots


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on May 10, 2013, 03:10:01 pm
^ Agree Mysha - Jane you are not the heir to the throne and in receipt of considerable amounts of public funding and the future head of state. H e should not be  doing anything to compromise that position.

It is obvious from what has been said by such as the Attorney General that he has compromised his position.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 10, 2013, 06:44:45 pm
^ Why should he let anyone see his correspondence? There is a little thing called PRIVACY ...I know I WOULDN'T LET anyone see my emails or messages ...

He's not acting in a private capacity, he is trying to influence, if not outright control, the way the country is being run.

He has no formal training and isn't someone who has proven to be trustworthy enough to be entrusted with such a position of authority. Politicians have everything about them published yet Charles demands control/influence minus public accountability.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: RoyalWatcher on May 11, 2013, 03:37:16 am
I see the they still HAVEN'T released Charles' letters yet.......and I doubt that the current government is going to be doing so.

Follow the Money.   


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on May 11, 2013, 08:02:52 am
I see a lot of wishful thinking and imagination running wild here ...we don't know what there is in those letters!!! The man has been Prince  of Wales for forever now I doubt he would do something he wasn't "allowed" to do  :June: or that he would be IDIOTIC enough to put all his darkest secrets on paper DOCUMENTING THEM  :June: when he could easily invite those people for tea to have those "chats"   :laundry: it's not like they would refuse to the contrary...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Freya on May 11, 2013, 09:59:41 am
Jane, with all due respect I think that you are commenting on matters you do not understand. I would not go onto an American site and comment about American constitution because I don't fully understand about how it works.

In the UK the RF are suppose to be politically neutral. They do not vote, although they can if they wish, but they keep their neutral status. If the monarchy started to become involved in politics the waters would get very muddied. The question of whether we should have a separate Head of State would become more relevant if the Monarchy were becoming involved in politics.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on May 11, 2013, 10:36:07 am
 :thumbsup:

Charles is idiotic and he wrote demands in the letters that should not have been. He believed no one would ever know about them. Karma is coming his way slowly but surely.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on May 11, 2013, 10:42:32 am
Even if the courts say they can't be released, someone, somewhere will have had access to these, may even have made copies and I predict a high probablity of them being leaked.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 11, 2013, 02:51:42 pm
There were already a couple of spider memos leaked so yes I believe that Charles lobbies (or who knows what) using letters and that there are many that may hurt the political neutrality he should project.

If there was nothing to hide there would have been no veto to release them after a court said that they should be public. Why create interest in the letters if there is nothing that can hurt Charles? It simply doesn't make sense and creates the infamous streisand effect.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on May 11, 2013, 03:26:12 pm
:thumbsup:

Charles is idiotic and he wrote demands in the letters that should not have been. He believed no one would ever know about them. Karma is coming his way slowly but surely.

You know the content of those letter?   ???


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: buflesse on May 11, 2013, 03:29:09 pm
:thumbsup:

Charles is idiotic and he wrote demands in the letters that should not have been. He believed no one would ever know about them. Karma is coming his way slowly but surely.

You know the content of those letter?   ???

A judge who has seen the letters has ruled that Charles is wrongly using his influence. Are you going to contradict the judge's ruling?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on May 11, 2013, 03:56:51 pm
^ I believe it was three High Court judges presiding in the hearing. It was their considered judgement that it was in the public interest that the content of these letters was published.

Further the Attorney General, Dominic Grieve who admitted the letters compromised PS's neutrality is a barrister of some considerable experience.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on May 11, 2013, 05:29:40 pm
So if ruled to publish these letters, where are they ? why are they not published ?
I *despise* how they take our tax payer money (though they refuse or *despise* to pay it ) and do not think they are accountable


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 11, 2013, 05:53:55 pm
^please read the whole thread for the details but the attorney general though they shouldn't be made public and vetoed the release.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on May 11, 2013, 10:51:29 pm
Ah I see. that is a shame. Hope someone made a copy and someone will send it viral


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on May 11, 2013, 11:01:07 pm
We may yet get to see them Mysha as the case is under appeal although I suspect the Govt will want it to be covered up and - who knows - the judges may side with the AG and say he can veto the correspondence.

Even then I believe the Guardian is prepared to go to the European Courts so it could rumble on and on. I doubt either side will give in easily, if at all.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on July 09, 2013, 11:36:01 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/09/prince-charles-letters-mps-private-court

Quote
Three senior judges have ruled that the public has no right to read documents that would reveal how Prince Charles has sought to alter government policies.

The high court judges have rejected a legal attempt by the Guardian to force the publication of private letters written by the prince to government ministers.

Cabinet ministers have conceded that the prince's private letters – dubbed "black spider memos" because of their scratchy handwriting – contained the prince's "most deeply held personal views and beliefs" that could undermine the perception of his political neutrality.

In a verdict published on Tuesday, the lord chief justice of England and Wales, Lord Judge, ruled that the attorney general, Dominic Grieve, had acted properly when he employed a rarely used veto to block the publication of the letters. The lord chief justice, however, noted that the existence of the veto was troublesome and appeared to be "a constitutional aberration".

Tuesday's ruling follows an eight-year battle by the newspaper to shed more light on the way the heir to the throne seeks to influence government ministers even though he holds no elected position.

Grieve had argued that disclosure of the 27 "particularly frank" letters between the prince and ministers over a seven-month period would have seriously damaged his future role as king. The attorney general said there was a risk that the prince would not be seen to be politically neutral by the public if the letters were published.

"This risk will arise if, through these letters, the Prince of Wales was viewed by others as disagreeing with government policy. Any such perception would be seriously damaging to his role as future monarch because if he forfeits his position of political neutrality as heir to the throne, he cannot easily recover it when he is king," Grieve had said.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 09, 2013, 01:21:35 pm
^ No more than I expected. It's the establishment working to protect the monarchy. Although what is interesting is that this was not about publishing the letters per se but over the Attorney General's right to use a veto which is included in the FOI (and I for one didn't know about this).

Lord Judge presiding did admit it was a worrying action within the act.

Quote
The Guardian went to the high court to argue that the cabinet had acted unlawfully by deploying the veto to block the disclosure of the letters. It was the first challenge of its kind to try to obtain royal correspondence.

On Tuesday, the lord chief justice, accompanied by Lord Justice Davis and Mr Justice Globe, dismissed the challenge, finding that Grieve had acted in the public interest in a "proper and rational way".

However, Judge said that the power of ministers under the FoI Act to issue a veto and override a decision reached by judges raised "troublesome concerns", particularly as even a ruling by the supreme court could be overridden.

"The possibility that a minister of the crown may lawfully override the decision of a superior court of record involves what appears to be a constitutional aberration," he said.

"It is an understatement to describe the situation as unusual," he wrote, adding that barristers could find no equivalent in any other British law.

"It is not quite a pernicious 'Henry VIII' clause, which enables a minister to override statute, but unconstrained it would have the same damaging effect on the rule of law."

However, Judge said the possibility that any override could be challenged in a court "provides the necessary safeguard for the constitutionality of the process".


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on July 09, 2013, 04:15:19 pm
So glad !!! The man is human too and has a right to privacy and to write letters !!!  :easter-sly:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on July 09, 2013, 04:21:41 pm
^ He has a lot of priveleges and that means that he also has obligations. He doesn't have the right to use his position to change the government opinion on any topic.

Government is elected by the people, Charles isn't.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on July 09, 2013, 05:35:24 pm
^ I know Liz can't vote but can Chuck? If he votes he has every right to speak his mind as everyone else does !!! And what does "he is not elected" mean? Obviously The Monarchy in the UK exists because of the general will of the people!!!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on July 09, 2013, 05:54:56 pm
^but even with your argument Charles has limited actions. Ok they are chosen and they are given rights but also limitatations, trying to influence the government on issues is something he shouldn't do. It's not that he cannot write to whom he wants but that he is using his position to influence/lobby.

Quote
The Queen and her family never vote or stand for election to any position, political or otherwise.

This is because The Queen's role is to provide continuity and the focus for national unity, and the Royal Family's public role is based on identifying with every section of society, including minorities and special interest groups.

Although the law relating to elections does not specifically prohibit the Sovereign from voting in a general election or local election, it is considered unconstitutional for the Sovereign and his or her heir to do so.

As Head of State, The Queen must remain politically neutral, since her Government will be formed from whichever party can command a majority in the House of Commons.

The Queen herself is part of the legislature and technically she cannot therefore vote for members of another part of the legislature.

With the removal of hereditary peers from the House of Lords in 1999, the Royal Dukes (The Dukes of Edinburgh, York, Gloucester and Kent) ceased to be members of the House of Lords and therefore became eligible to vote in elections, and to stand for election.

But members of the Royal Family do not exercise these rights. To vote or hold elected positions would not be in accordance with the need for neutrality.

Under the Maastricht Treaty, The Queen and other members of the Royal Family would be entitled to vote for the European Parliament, or to stand for election to that Parliament.

However, The Queen would only exercise these rights on the advice of her Ministers. Their advice would invariably be that she should neither vote nor stand for an elected position so as not to compromise her neutrality.

Other members of the Royal Family do not act on ministerial advice, but they also are required to preserve their political neutrality so as not to embarrass The Queen. Therefore, they too would not vote nor stand for election for the European Parliament.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/QueenandGovernment/Queenandvoting.aspx


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 09, 2013, 06:02:20 pm
Jane that's a good question and I don't know but I would think that until he is in possession of the Crown (i.e. King) he can vote.

Alexandrine...absolutely he just is not like any other British person. It must be difficult when you have opinions but if he feels so strongly he should relinquish his position and stand as a Member of Parliament. He won't be doing that any time soon as he has a very nice little earner going on with the Duchy etc.

You know what the problem is here? The income from the Duchy of Cornwall has done him no favours at all because had he not had such fabulous wealth at his disposal he would have had find a genuine job or source of income. So we have a fabulously wealthy man who has no need to work in any way and all he has done for his entire adult life is sit and wait for his mother's job and meddle, lobby and interfere.

And the way it's going (longevity etc) he may never ever inherit the throne.

However, he should be mindful of his constitutional position as heir to the throne and maintain strict neutrality and not lobby ministers. If you read what Dominic Grieve originally said he has stated that his actions and opinions are such that if the public knew about them they would see that he is not fit to be King. It is actually very worrying and I suspect there will be more battles ahead.

I do wonder if the Guardian will take this particular decision over the use of the FOI veto to Europe as it is quite anti democratic to have ministers overriding the rule of law.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on July 09, 2013, 06:23:22 pm
^ I doubt Dominic Grieve has read the letters ... and again I doubt Chuck would that stupid to write something down that so "explosive" he might risk The Throne ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on July 09, 2013, 06:25:52 pm
^well then why not publish them...? They are going against the rule of law simply to protect Charles.

If he plays with his political neutrality, he shouldn't complain that he gets burned.

And now I'm going to buy my dinner!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 09, 2013, 06:34:46 pm
^ Of course he's read the letters.  ??? He's a barrister as well as a Minister and he would need to know exactly what he was arguing.

The Guardian is to appeal according to the Press Gazette. This is what Grieve told the court and it's pretty damning.

Quote
Grieve had argued that disclosure of the 27 "particularly frank" letters between the prince and ministers over a seven-month period would have seriously damaged his future role as king. The attorney general said there was a risk that the prince would not be seen to be politically neutral by the public if the letters were published.

"This risk will arise if, through these letters, the Prince of Wales was viewed by others as disagreeing with government policy. Any such perception would be seriously damaging to his role as future monarch because if he forfeits his position of political neutrality as heir to the throne, he cannot easily recover it when he is king," Grieve had said.


Further this is constitutionally dangerous because it is saying PC CAN influence Government decisions. This will run on and on.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 09, 2013, 10:43:31 pm
Here's the Guardian's Leader on the whole business

Quote
How much should you know about Prince Charles's attempts to change government policies? Since 2005, the Guardian has fought to make public letters sent by the prince to Whitehall ministers. No one disputes that these "black spider memos" are important and of public interest. Last autumn, a Freedom of Information tribunal of three judges ruled that they should be published for "transparency as to how and when Prince Charles seeks to influence government". Even as he vetoed the judges' decision, the attorney general, Dominic Grieve, admitted that the "advocacy correspondence" showed the prince disagreeing with government policy. But to preserve the fiction that the future monarch is politically neutral, Mr Grieve demanded the letters be kept secret.

Without even consulting parliament, a cabinet minister has overturned a court verdict – and put his hand over the public's eyes to shield it from unpleasantness. Today three senior judges admitted that they found the block "troublesome". The veto's very existence, said the lord chief justice, was "a constitutional aberration". The judges went on: "It is not quite a pernicious 'Henry VIII clause', which enables a minister to override statute but, unconstrained, it would have the same damaging effect on the rule of law." Yet having painted the veto as indefensible, the judges then elected to uphold it. Eight years later, and despite a landmark ruling by an FoI tribunal, members of the public are still no closer to seeing how the Prince of Wales tries to influence governments they have elected.

For, make no mistake, this is meddling of the highest order. Government advisers have described in court how such royal memos went to the "top of the pile" and were "treated with great reverence". The prince's interests are wide-ranging – the letters in question were sent to seven Whitehall departments, from the Department for Business to the Northern Ireland Office – and he has been enthusiastic in pursuing them, writing 27 letters in just seven months between 2004 and 2005.

To be clear, this correspondence was not about routine engagements or part of the prince's preparation for kingship, which would place them outside publication under the Freedom of Information laws (which have since been restricted further to exempt all Prince Charles's correspondence). By Mr Grieves' own admission, these are "particularly frank" letters by which Prince Charles seeks to influence public policy. Yet Britons are not permitted to find out the nature of that influence: what has been demanded or what has been given. It is obvious what the public loses by such secrecy. It is less clear how much Clarence House really gains by having the vacuum filled with partial leaks and innuendo. The shroud should not be left in place.





http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/09/prince-charles-speaking-up-editorial


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on July 09, 2013, 11:50:20 pm
Charles can't even run his own life, how is he qualified to tell people how to run the country?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on July 10, 2013, 01:23:08 am
Quote
By Mr Grieves' own admission, these are "particularly frank" letters by which Prince Charles seeks to influence public policy. Yet Britons are not permitted to find out the nature of that influence: what has been demanded or what has been given. It is obvious what the public loses by such secrecy. It is less clear how much Clarence House really gains by having the vacuum filled with partial leaks and innuendo. The shroud should not be left in place.

I bet he lobbied in ways that made him more money. They need to stop giving Duchy money to the Prince of Wales and let him live off of an allowance or get a job. Maybe then he would be less likely to meddle if he had something useful like a job of some sort to occupy his time. If Charles had started a career when he was mid 20's he would be getting ready for retirement.

These people should be freed from their gilded cages. One reason is they are far to expensive and another is it prevents them from joining the reality that the rest of us live in.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: meememe on July 10, 2013, 02:28:29 am
Charles did start a career in his early 20s - it was called the navy.

He left in his late 20s to begin a life of royal duties to the nation and his monarch and he will continue doing those until the day he dies in all likelihood - no retirement for him.

I think he would have loved to have stayed in the navy for longer but as the heir to the throne he wasn't allowed to do so. I have read that he was quite jealous that Andrew was able to see active service in the Falklands and he wasn't able to do so having already left the navy.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on July 10, 2013, 03:26:44 am
A career is a little more than what Charles, William or Harry have done. Charles has a career of meddling because there isn't that much education needed to abuse your position the way Charles has. He left the Navy 40 years ago to learn how to be a Monarch and failed on one of the most important aspects which is to remain neutral.

So he failed at a Naval career and at an education to be Monarch. I guess that pretty much makes Charles a loser.   :snob:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 10, 2013, 10:45:09 am
They have been able to use the armed forces as their personal career choices and easily get into positions which have been fiercely contested by other young people with far superior qualifications, personal interests and most probably superior personal attributes.

How many of them have ever strayed into the City or medicine, science or engineering? I really can't think of one because the armed forces is their safety net.

PC had to leave the navy to perform royal duties most of which are simply PR to keep their profile raised. The actual constitutional demands are few. There would have been no reason why the navy wouldn't have allowed him some extra time to study his monarchical role. More than anything it's pretty tragic for them as they are institutionalised albeit in a cosseted way.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on July 10, 2013, 11:38:40 am
They should be freed from their gilded cages.

ITA with them using the armed forces as an escape but Charles wouldn't have been forced to leave because he was the heir William is still hanging in there instead of doing Monarch learning. They spend as much time in the military as they choose to just so they can do military events and say "See I am one of you" and "I understand what it is like to be part of the military". In reality with all the perks they get they can never understand what it is like to be a real military officer.

40 years of Monarch learning seriously.   :laugh:  What is he a slow learner?


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on July 15, 2013, 12:16:44 am
Prince Charles in 'secret’ health talks
The Prince of Wales holds private meeting with Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, at which alternative health treatments on the NHS are said to have been discussed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/10178121/Prince-Charles-in-secret-health-talks.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on July 15, 2013, 09:19:35 am
^ Shocker !!! Nothing out of this World happens during those meetings/talks who would have thought  :June: ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: True Brit on July 15, 2013, 10:31:37 am
You are missing the point spectacularly Jane. The PoW is pushing his interests in providing homeopathic treatments on the NHS and even pushed so hard they diverted funds to keep such a hospital open in London at a cost of millions to the NHS/taxpayers. However, all the doctors and scientists claim it is a huge waste of resources and funds.

This is lobbying for his own personal interests and not just a fact finding mission. As for his spokesperson I would take that with a very large pinch of salt.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on July 16, 2013, 09:01:28 am
^ Personal interests? HUH?  ???


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on July 16, 2013, 08:58:52 pm
Lets bring back the guillotine, there is the solution to this most disgusting old ill moral thing


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Tatiana on July 17, 2013, 07:30:40 pm


   One sec .. I shall get my knitting  :laugh:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: buflesse on July 20, 2013, 10:00:37 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2370754/Charles-NHS-homeopathy-row-Prince-holds-secret-meeting-Health-Secretary-lobby-treatment-denounced-doctors-witchcraft.html

Charles in NHS homeopathy row: Prince holds secret meeting with Health Secretary to lobby for treatment denounced by top doctors as 'witchcraft'

Pair - both supporters of alternative therapies - met last week
Jeremy Hunt has been outspoken in his support for homeopathy
Charles 'unhappy' that government plans to set up a register of practitioners of herbal and Chinese medicine have stalled


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Tatiana on July 20, 2013, 07:40:02 pm
^ Personal interests? HUH?  ???

  Yes Jane ...  PLEASE READ

Today Nelsons is Europe's oldest and the UK's largest manufacturer of homeopathic preparations.

Nelsons has expanded their range beyond the original Homeopathic family of products and into other areas of complementary and Natural medicine.The most obvious example of this is the Bach flower remedies and in particular Rescue Remedy, which is sold all over the world. More recently the company has acquired other natural health businesses such as the Trefriw Wells Spa in Wales, which produces a mineral water naturally high in Iron called Spatone that is used as a dietary supplement, and Nice 'n Clear, a natural head lice lotion. Nelsons also produce some traditional herbal remedies such as Arnica creams.

With the exception of the Spatone well, all Nelsons products are manufactured in Wimbledon in south west London and from there exported to countries around the world. The company has opened subsidiary offices in Boston in the USA and Hamburg in Germany. The company is run today by Dick's eldest son, Robert, and his brother Patrick.

In December 2008 during a visit to the factory in Wimbledon, Charles, Prince of Wales announced a partnership between Nelsons and his Duchy Originals brand to produce a line of herbal remedies. He watched the first batch of products being produced and afterwards gave a speech to staff where he said he had great admiration for the company and had been brought up with their products.

  THE LAST PARAGRAPH IS ESPECIALLY INTERESTING.


  SHOCKER INDEED  :o


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on July 25, 2013, 03:52:21 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/25/prince-charles-letters-judges-allow-appeal?CMP=twt_gu

Quote
Three high court judges have given permission for an appeal to be mounted against a decision to conceal details of Prince Charles's lobbying campaigns.

The Guardian will seek to overturn a high court ruling this month that the prince's private efforts to influence public policies should remain secret.

Lord Judge, the lord chief justice of England and Wales, and two other judges have allowed the newspaper to appeal.

The appeal will be the latest stage in an eight-year battle by the newspaper to view a set of letters written by the prince to ministers in seven government departments over a nine-month period. It is due to be heard in the court of appeal later this year.

The cabinet has decided that the letters must remain hidden after deciding that they could undermine the public's perception of the prince's political neutrality.

They are going to get Charles in the end. I guess meddling may have paid off for him financially but it will darken and overshadow him for years to come.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Emperor on July 26, 2013, 02:05:25 am
Meddling in affairs she shouldn't is one thing if he were not gaining financially from it.

I personally don't think many people will take kindly to his meddling if he stood to gain financially at the other end. Some could say it is a form of insider trading.  bignono


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: buflesse on July 26, 2013, 02:25:09 am
Regardless of whether he's gaining financially, I dislike the entire principle that his 'birthright' and position somehow entitle him to that kind of influence in a supposed democracy. Many of his ideas (e.g. homeopathic medicine) are also extremely dangerous. It doesn't surprise me that he is acting in the interests of profit though. There is no limit to his greed and recklessness.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: sandy on July 26, 2013, 06:08:15 pm
He told his authorized biographer he happened on ONE medical book in the royal library then felt equipped to be an "expert" on medicine. What a joke


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on July 26, 2013, 09:01:27 pm
Chuck if he had a brain, could have a double degree in medicine but he should still not voice an opinion
he is meant to be neutral I thought and not influence anything


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on August 13, 2013, 02:52:55 am
Prince Charles faces scrutiny by MPs over veto on laws

Parliament to examine heir to the throne's little-known veto over any laws that affect his private interests


The British parliament is to investigate Prince Charles's controversial role in helping to shape government legislation in a move likely to increase pressure on Whitehall to reduce the secrecy around alleged royal lobbying.

MPs will examine the heir to the throne's little-known royal veto over any new laws that affect his private interests next month. The move follows a Guardian investigation in 2011 into the secretive constitutional loophole that revealed how ministers have been forced to seek permission from the prince to pass at least a dozen government bills.

The House of Commons political and constitutional reform committee, chaired by the Labour MP Graham Allen, will ask whether there is a risk that the requirement of royal consent, which is also granted by the Queen depending on the nature of the law being passed, "could be seen as politicising the monarchy".

It has emerged that Charles has held 36 meetings with ministers since the government took power in May 2010. He has met the prime minister, David Cameron, seven times, four different ministers in the Department for Communities and Local Government and held six meetings with ministers in the Department of Energy and Climate Change, which oversee areas in which the prince campaigns on planning and the environment respectively. Neither Whitehall nor Clarence House will elaborate on what was discussed in the private meetings.

The royal veto is seen by some constitutional experts as a nuclear deterrent – a red button that is unlikely to be pressed but that may focus ministers' minds when Charles and other members of the royal family discuss policy matters with them.

Later this year, the court of appeal will hear the latest stage of an eight-year battle by the Guardian to get the government to reveal a set of 27 letters written by the prince to ministers in seven departments over a nine-month period.

The questions being asked by the committee, whose members include the historian Tristram Hunt, include: "Is there a continuing justification for the Queen's or prince's consent to be part of the legislative process?"

Allan said seeking Charles's consent to laws that affect his interests was "a relic" but stressed his focus was on how the executive may manipulate the royal prerogative to push through decisions without the proper scrutiny of MPs.

Both Clarence House and Buckingham Palace said it was "a long-established convention" that the prince, as Duke of Cornwall, is asked by parliament to provide consent to those bills that parliament has decided would affect Duchy of Cornwall interests. They said the same process is followed with regards to the Queen providing consent to bills that would affect Crown interests.

"In modern times, neither the Queen nor the Prince of Wales has refused to consent to any bill affecting Crown, Duchy of Lancaster or Duchy of Cornwall interests, unless advised to do so by ministers," the palace said. "In matters of legislation, the Queen always acts on the advice of the government. Every instance of the Queen and the prince's consent having been sought and given to legislation is a matter of public record."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/12/prince-charles-scrutiny-mps-lobbying


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on August 13, 2013, 12:26:03 pm
The Telegraph has waded into the lobbying issue, pointing out that Charles's meetings with ministers has greatly increased since the last election.

Republic told the paper: "He has a more sympathetic ear among Conservative ministers than he did under Labour and he is exploiting that to full effect and ramping up his lobbying."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/10238669/Prince-Charless-meetings-with-Cabinet-ministers-increase-dramatically-under-Coalition.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on August 13, 2013, 12:28:14 pm
The Daily Mail on how Charles is putting the monarchy at risk:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2389554/Prince-Charless-meddling-puts-monarchy-risk.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: mysha on August 13, 2013, 06:05:58 pm
I do not think it is enough to rid of him or make him stand down


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on August 14, 2013, 11:28:26 pm
Cameron needs to stop making up to the RF and needs to start putting them in their place.

It's too bad a Prime Minister even needs to bother with this family or that ministers have to be bombarded with letters. Makes me see that a monarchy is now more a nuisance than an asset or something that takes the load off of the ministers in the social sense.


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: Nighthawk on February 25, 2014, 11:47:58 am
Guardian challenges ban on publication of Prince Charles's letters to ministers
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/24/guardian-challenges-ban-publication-prince-charles-letters

Quote
Two-day appeal follows ruling in favour of attorney general, who said letters could harm future king's position of political neutrality


Title: Re: Charles & Camilla: News and Photos II
Post by: gingerboy24 on February 25, 2014, 11:52:21 am
Hope they win, although not holding my breath.  About time the public knew all about what he gets up to and who he write to.  Probably most of it with a hidden agenda for himself. 


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Val on February 25, 2014, 07:05:56 pm
Always an agenda for himself.  Says it all that his letters can't be released!


Title: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Emperor on March 12, 2014, 12:03:45 pm
LONDON - The Guardian has won a court battle in its efforts to disclose letters by Prince Charles — a decision the newspaper argues could shed light on whether he has used his position to influence politics.

The Court of Appeal ruling Wednesday came after Attorney General Dominic Grieve refused to let the public see Charles' correspondence with seven U.K. government departments. Grieve had argued the particularly frank letters reflect the personal views of Charles, who is first in line to the throne. The fear is Britons may not find Charles to be politically neutral — as a king must be — and the monarchy would be undermined.

The Guardian has campaigned for letters' release, arguing the government failed to show reasonable grounds for them to be blocked.

Grieve's office will appeal.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/prince-charles-loses-bid-keep-letters-government-departments-113402718.html


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Snokitty on March 12, 2014, 01:35:35 pm
Grieve's needs to stop wasting money to fight this because it is going to happen. He tried to protect Charles and it has proven futile. Charles is a grown man and he wrote the letters and he needs to own them and their contents.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 12, 2014, 03:20:09 pm
This comes as a slap in the face to Charles and a deserved one; in the US we have transparency and he should be subject to it as well. SO now the press is battling back and I do think that if the Guardian loses, that the rest of the media will go on a nice, long rampage against Charles.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: rogue on March 12, 2014, 03:29:46 pm
Finally !!! You got to give it to The Guardian  :worship:  :worship:


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: RoyalWatcher on March 12, 2014, 04:18:33 pm
any letters that the Royals write to elected officials should be published outright. 



Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Sparky on March 12, 2014, 04:51:23 pm
If Charles has been acting as a proper royal then he should have nothing to hide from the public!! If the monarchy is undermined due to his own actions then that is his fault!! I've glad it was overturned! He needs to live up to the consequences of his actions like everyone else.  :bouncy: :worship: :worship:


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Jane23 on March 12, 2014, 04:51:52 pm
It's gonna be appealed and until that happens no one is seeing any of Chuck's letters and rightfully so ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on March 13, 2014, 09:36:48 am
Ronnie Kimmel ‏@ronno57 9m

Quote
No wonder #Prince_Charles didn't want his letters #published pic.twitter.com/kTUFAsMxlC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BimNTRSIYAABo51.jpg

Charles will always be the "Clown Prince".   :laugh:


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 15, 2014, 10:30:28 pm
There must be something extremely nuclear in those letters if he's sweating this much about being forced to release them.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: sandy on March 16, 2014, 01:07:24 am
After the feeding frenzy related to Diana, I so want those letters to be released. I'd enjoy seeing those writers hoping for knighthoods from Chuck try to deal with the letters without offending the Great Man. It will be fun to watch.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Magnolia on March 16, 2014, 01:49:59 am
any letters that the Royals write to elected officials should be published outright. 


I agree especially the shaddy things going on.


Title: what political clout does Prince Charles have?
Post by: Snokitty on March 17, 2014, 08:40:13 pm
https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-political-clout-does-prince-charles-have-24363
Quote
Meanwhile, the recent decision of princes William and Harry to join their father in support of a public campaign against elephant poaching will probably be seen less as a political intervention than a continuation of the tradition Frank Prochaska has described as “welfare monarchy”, by which members of the royal family have sought to associate themselves with “good causes”.

Prince Charles, however, is a very special case, and not simply because he is the heir apparent. Rather than simply slipping out in casual conversation, his firmly-held and sometimes controversial views have formed the basis for a number of set-piece speeches. We also know that he is in fairly regular contact with ministers. Putting the two together, it is difficult to avoid the suspicion that Charles may be exploiting his special access to Whitehall in order to lobby for his pet causes in ways that might undermine confidence in his ability to act as a politically neutral sovereign. His supporters claim his contacts with ministers are merely a way of preparing him for kingship. Prevented, however, by official secrecy from learning about the precise nature of these contacts, we are in no better position to assess whether a troubling constitutional line has been crossed than we are to know whether the fridge light goes off when we close the door.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snokitty on March 21, 2014, 04:48:38 pm
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/lets-end-all-monarchical-meddling-in-political-affairs/14814#.UytBUGtYCSM
Quote
the UK Guardian has campaigned to force the government to release some of Prince Charles’ private correspondence. The dispute relates to 27 so-called ‘black spider memos’, named because of the author’s scrawly handwriting, that the prince wrote to government departments in 2004 and 2005. The Guardian won the latest round last week in the Court of Appeal. But as the issue looks to be heading for the Supreme Court, both sides to this litigation are missing the issue that’s clearly written in black and white: why in a democracy does the monarch have a right to influence the government?

On one side of the courtroom, the government argues against disclosure because if the public read Prince Charles’ ‘particularly frank’ letters on political issues, then this could, on his succession, undermine the political neutrality that is supposed to characterise the sovereign. Disclosure, says the government, could create a perception that ‘would be seriously damaging to his role as future monarch, because if he forfeits his position of political neutrality as heir to the throne, he cannot easily recover it when he is king’. In other words, the government pleads secrecy as necessary to prevent the institution of monarchy from being harmed.

On the other side of the courtroom, the Guardian argues for disclosure because this ‘is a fight that raises important questions about… the proper limits to the monarchy’. The Guardian adds that disclosure is necessary ‘to protect the prince’; it has decided that the prince needs protecting from himself, that he must be less outspoken so that organisations like the Guardian cannot embarrass him in future. The Guardian sums up its disagreement with the government as being about means rather than ends. Both want to protect Prince Charles, but where the government seeks to do it with secrecy, the Guardian desires to substitute ‘speculation and innuendo for truth and transparency’.

The Guardian’s nine-year campaign over, as it puts it, ‘the proper limits to the monarchy’ is one where it and the government both accept the monarch’s right to influence the government. The most interesting thing that the Guardian’s litigation has revealed is not the already well-known fact that Prince Charles meddles in government affairs, but that the UK’s constitution actually requires the monarch to influence the government. The word used by the attorney general, on behalf of the government, is ‘duty’. More specifically he stated that the monarch had a ‘duty, to be consulted, to encourage, and to warn the government’. This duty ‘ensures that a measure of influence is retained for the monarch within the constitution’. The attorney general notes that the duty ‘is most obviously, though not solely, expressed through the prime minister’s weekly audience with the monarch’.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Dasher on March 27, 2014, 12:48:58 am
The gag has been lifted  :wopedo: hopefully the public will be able to read his "black-spider memos" nicknamed because of his scrawled handwriting.
I do hope that the letters are printed, although Cameron is doing his best to thwart this happening. Charlie most definitely used his unelected position to persuade ministers to change official policies through private letters. I wonder if population control was on his hidden agenda.  :spy:


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Emperor on March 27, 2014, 02:00:16 am
Personally I don't care that he's writing to the ministers. The point as to which I have my reservations is if he's using these letters to push agenda which would enrich himself financially. Thats almost insider trading and is illegal.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 27, 2014, 02:45:24 am
The gag has been lifted  :wopedo: hopefully the public will be able to read his "black-spider memos" nicknamed because of his scrawled handwriting.
I do hope that the letters are printed, although Cameron is doing his best to thwart this happening. Charlie most definitely used his unelected position to persuade ministers to change official policies through private letters. I wonder if population control was on his hidden agenda.  :spy:

Cameron is playing with fire; when the public finds out all Cameron does to help the RF and ignores the rest of the country, I suspect he'll be booted out just like John Major was. Throw in a new Labor minister and I can only suppose that it'll become a flood of information being released.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Snokitty on March 27, 2014, 03:26:34 pm
Richard Palmer ‏@RoyalReporter 1m
Quote
The UK government has spent £274,481 so far on lawyers trying to block publication of Prince Charles's letters, the Commons had heard.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 27, 2014, 10:10:16 pm
This won't go over well with the public, I know that much.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Aquitaine on March 27, 2014, 10:59:39 pm
Any bets that the day the Guardian reveals the contents of these letters, Kate will be wheeled out in a new dress and make sure to be seen saying and doing something insipid and inane and THAT will get plastered everywhere? I remember her "I'll give this toy to my d--" quote (back when she was pregnant) helped to bury some negative info connected to Charles that the Guardian was also revealing at the time (I think it was something to do with Duchy records).


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Snokitty on March 28, 2014, 12:29:07 am
^  I think that is the day they will announce Harry and Cressida's engagement.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Emperor on March 28, 2014, 03:10:36 am
They should release them one at a time. The BRF may ba sble to dull the impact of only one or 2 letters but dulling the brunt of 7-8 is going to be very very hard.
Plus they don't have much in the way pf PW, WK, PH WK2 that could distract them.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: cate1949 on March 28, 2014, 03:14:22 am
Richard Palmer ‏@RoyalReporter 1m
Quote
The UK government has spent £274,481 so far on lawyers trying to block publication of Prince Charles's letters, the Commons had heard.


wow - the result of all this is that people think there is "bad" stuff in those letters - something damaging to PC.  I'd bet most if not all are fairly uncontroversial.  But making this sort of effort to hide them creates the appearance that there is serious spicy stuff there.  Foolish.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 28, 2014, 03:52:14 am
I wonder what is in them that makes Charles so upset; there must be something incendiary that is making him sweat bullets and put so much effort into keeping them secret.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: cate1949 on March 28, 2014, 04:26:34 am
I'd keep in mind it is not just PC fighting release - it is the government so the letters may have things in them that embarrass the gov or particular minsters.  PC might actually be writing sensible stuff that makes the ministers look bad in some of these letters so they are not protecting him - they are protecting themselves.

I'd say PC is fighting around the principle of retaining the privilege of confidential corresponsdence with ministers.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 28, 2014, 04:30:26 am
There must be something newsworthy in there, big time, for these letters to be released via the Guardian and for the minsters themselves to be fighting against it. I mean, normally government ministers wouldn't care at all about being embarrassed (comes with the territory), but there must be something incendiary.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Snokitty on March 28, 2014, 05:34:53 pm
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/28/prince-charles-letters-quarter-of-a-million-pounds?CMP=twt_gu
Quote
Government ministers have so far spent more than £250,000 in legal fees to prevent the publication of letters written by Prince Charles to politicians.

The attorney general, Dominic Grieve, with the backing of the cabinet, has been blocking the release of the letters as he says their contents threaten to damage the prince's political neutrality and create constitutional problems.

Earlier this month, three senior judges declared that Grieve had acted unlawfully when he overrode an independent tribunal by vetoing the disclosure of the letters, which would show how the prince sought to influence the government's decision-making.

The ruling in the court of appeal was won by the Guardian, which for nine years has been pressing to see the letters.

Following a parliamentary question by Labour MP Paul Flynn, Grieve has disclosed that eight government departments have spent £274,481.16 on barristers and other lawyers over the past four years.

He said the "case raises issues of constitutional significance, including upholding parliament's intentions for the freedom of information regime and the government's ability to protect information in the public interest".

Flynn said: "This denial of information by government is a sinful waste of public money. If there is something in the letters that suggests Prince Charles will be a poor monarch, then his future subjects have a right to know.

"The head of state is a position of great influence and a clash between an opinionated head of state and a government could cause a constitutional crisis."

Over the past four years, the government has hired lawyers to contest a series of hearings into whether the letters – said by Grieve to contain the prince's "most deeply held personal views and beliefs" – should be released to the public under the Freedom of Information Act.

Two years ago, the independent freedom of information tribunal ruled against the government and ordered that the letters should be published as the public should know how the prince had sought to influence ministers in the last Labour government.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Aquitaine on March 28, 2014, 10:33:25 pm
Thanks again Snokitty.

"The attorney general, Dominic Grieve, with the backing of the cabinet, has been blocking the release of the letters as he says their contents threaten to damage the prince's political neutrality and create constitutional problems."

If this is true (and I suspect it must be) then the British public have the right to know. There is, however, one more senior court left in the UK which I'm sure the attorney general would bring this case to - the Supreme Court (previously known as the House of Lords) so whilst the Guardian may have won in the Court of Appeal, don't expect the publication of Charles' "spider-memos" for another couple of years (which like another poster said will be buried by Harry's engagement announcement).


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: RoyalWatcher on March 29, 2014, 01:41:44 am
smells like a scandal in the making....wonder if it will be enough for the British people to find toss the RF out on their collective behinds.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: cate1949 on March 29, 2014, 02:59:49 am
as he says their contents threaten to damage the prince's political neutrality and create constitutional problems."


this really is a big deal - so it would appear PC has done something wrong - not remaining politically neutral - and they are covering it up so as to avoid a constitutional crisis - which is PC being excluded from the throne because he has violated the law -   wow


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Jane23 on March 29, 2014, 10:18:00 am
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/28/prince-charles-letters-quarter-of-a-million-pounds?CMP=twt_gu
Quote
Government ministers have so far spent more than £250,000 in legal fees to prevent the publication of letters written by Prince Charles to politicians.

The attorney general, Dominic Grieve, with the backing of the cabinet, has been blocking the release of the letters as he says their contents threaten to damage the prince's political neutrality and create constitutional problems.

Earlier this month, three senior judges declared that Grieve had acted unlawfully when he overrode an independent tribunal by vetoing the disclosure of the letters, which would show how the prince sought to influence the government's decision-making.

The ruling in the court of appeal was won by the Guardian, which for nine years has been pressing to see the letters.

Following a parliamentary question by Labour MP Paul Flynn, Grieve has disclosed that eight government departments have spent £274,481.16 on barristers and other lawyers over the past four years.

He said the "case raises issues of constitutional significance, including upholding parliament's intentions for the freedom of information regime and the government's ability to protect information in the public interest".

Flynn said: "This denial of information by government is a sinful waste of public money. If there is something in the letters that suggests Prince Charles will be a poor monarch, then his future subjects have a right to know.

"The head of state is a position of great influence and a clash between an opinionated head of state and a government could cause a constitutional crisis."

Over the past four years, the government has hired lawyers to contest a series of hearings into whether the letters – said by Grieve to contain the prince's "most deeply held personal views and beliefs" – should be released to the public under the Freedom of Information Act.

Two years ago, the independent freedom of information tribunal ruled against the government and ordered that the letters should be published as the public should know how the prince had sought to influence ministers in the last Labour government.
The Guardian really?


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Snokitty on March 29, 2014, 01:28:48 pm
Yes it is the Guardian. You know the paper that is suing to get the letters released. The paper with all the inside knowledge of the case. The one paper that doesn't write drivel about how wonderful the royals are. The one paper that you can have the most trust in.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Freya on March 29, 2014, 01:33:10 pm
The Guardian is a left wing paper but it is considered a quality paper in the UK. It's the sort of paper that would attract academic left wing readers.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Aquitaine on March 29, 2014, 02:34:47 pm
^ Is there any other kind of academic but left-wing ones? :tehe:

The Guardian is also owned by a trust rather than a corporation, making it the UK's only major paper not subject to the same pressures and interferences from corporate boards, shareholders, politicians etc that other publications are, so it's no wonder that they're the only paper in a position to pursue this.


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Vesper on March 29, 2014, 05:24:36 pm
^I don't know... There are plenty of them that are limousine liberals. :tehe:


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Aquitaine on March 29, 2014, 06:06:40 pm
^ LOL, touché. There is a stereotype of Guardian journalists being privately-educated Oxbridge grads who decamp to their private Tuscan villas during the summer months, but I'd still take them over the Telegraph any day :P


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: Vesper on March 29, 2014, 06:30:05 pm
^Without a doubt. I have a friend, who's an academic but not a limo lib, who writes for them quite often.

To keep on topic, I bet they will win the case eventually!


Title: Re: Prince Charles loses bid to keep letters to government departments private
Post by: cate1949 on March 29, 2014, 06:52:04 pm
it is good to see a paper that is not all fluff and knows what the role of the press should be in a democratic society -

I think the head of state should have certain exemptions in that there are times when secrecy is necessary.  But Charles is not head of state - so those exemptions should not be applied to him.  If Charles crossed the line in terms of maintaining a neutral role  then the public has the right to know this - and if that precipitates a constitutional crisis - well - PC should have stayed within his boundaries and the ministers should have made that clear to him.

The best way for people to trust their government is transparency - if you try to hide things - even with good intentions - it erodes that trust.

But wow - constitutional crisis - Edward VIII all over again - way to go Charlie.


Title: The fight for Charles' letters
Post by: Countess of Holland on April 08, 2014, 02:38:29 pm
For years Charles has send handwritten letters to members of the government about subjects that are close to his heart (modern architecture, homeopathy etc). The Guardian, a republican newspaper) has been trying to get their hands on the letters, claiming they would fall under the UK transparency act. The government has declined and went to court several times to prevent that they have to make the letters public.

A Labour MP has now asked how much this government-fight has cost the British taxpayers. The answer of the government...300,000 pounds! And counting because the government has now gone to the Supreme Court after a ruling of a lower judge that the letters must be made public. So once more the government is trying to prevent the Guardian from seeing the letters. The government fears that it would 'harm' the Prince of Wales.

Two thoughts:
1. This whole circus isn't exactly doing wonders for his pr either;
2. If the content of the letters is that bad that is harms Charles, I would think the British people have a right to know, because it would automatically mean that he is unfit to become King because he clearly doesn't understand his role in the political structure of the country.

Jeezzz...I am getting more and more happy and content with King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima. They seem to know their place (unless when it comes to the Olympics, that is when the King is putting his foot down...he MUST be present at the Games, no matter who is the host).


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: RoyalWatcher on April 08, 2014, 03:28:57 pm
This could be some very interesting reading...or it could be something extremely dull and boring.  Release the letters and allow the public to see exactly what he's been doing for the past 50 plus years.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Stargazer on April 08, 2014, 04:10:30 pm
^ITA if the letters make him unfit to be King then he should not be. The Public should be informed about his attempts to influence the Government. After all you pay the taxes to keep them in their lifestyle! (I'm from Aus -we get that joy when they are on tour here only!)


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: RoyalWatcher on April 08, 2014, 04:42:47 pm
I'm so glad that we had the revolution and aren't financially responsible for them.  We have enough moochers on welfare.  they are called corporations.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: cate1949 on April 08, 2014, 11:48:10 pm
^   LOL



I hope this gets resolved soon - when will the supreme court rule on this - is a date known?  Here in the US the schedule is posted so we know when important cases will be heard -

If they support the lower court - it will be a victory for democracy - so go for it!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on April 11, 2014, 05:06:35 pm
Hmmm, some papers of chaz gone missing

https://twitter.com/MeirionTweets/status/454387889309511680


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Freya on April 11, 2014, 05:25:42 pm
If the letters show that he is trying to lobby Ministers and MP's then it makes a total farce of the fact that he is a hereditary monarch. He has not been democratically elected so should have no input into government.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: cate1949 on April 21, 2014, 07:39:31 pm
think this is a topic we shouldnot let go of - keep it active so we can see how the court case is resolved and what is in those letters ....


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 03, 2014, 04:26:21 pm
Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt Apr 30

The latest stage of the gov's attempt to stop @guardian publishing Prince Charles letters to ministers takes place at @UKSupremeCourt in Nov

 Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt Apr 30

The @UKSupremeCourt hearing of @AGO_UK v @guardian re: Charles letters will be Nov 24-25. Judgement is likely to be delivered 2 months later

Richard Palmer ‏@RoyalReporter Mar 27

The UK government has spent £274,481 so far on lawyers trying to block publication of Prince Charles's letters, the Commons had heard.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: RoyalWatcher on May 03, 2014, 05:08:03 pm
It may not amount to anything once the letters are published:  on the other hand, it could show that the BRF is from from just being a "ceremonial" monarchy as their PR claims, and that no laws are passed without the full cooperation and support of the BRF.

If the former turns out to the case, where they are in fact, ruling England, then perhaps this will finally lead to the British people demanding an end to the Monarchy itself.  Liz and her get will still be worth billions, and Germany has proven that you don't have to have hereditary heads of states to still enjoy and maintain castles.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on June 30, 2014, 12:19:01 am
How Charles influenced key policies: Extraordinary revelations from ex-Labour ministers show Prince 'consorted' with Government to push his own agenda

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2674373/How-Charles-influenced-key-policies-Extraordinary-revelations-ex-Labour-ministers-Prince-consorted-Government-push-agenda.html#ixzz364c2oq1M
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: cate1949 on June 30, 2014, 02:23:01 am
hardly seems as controversial as it once appeared - more concerned about lobbying from corporations than PC.  And do note that he as a person does have a right to express his opinions - just not publically.  As monarch he surely can speak up privately - the Queen does.  He cannot however be seen to favor one political party over another - he cannot try to influence elections.  He has done neither here.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Countess of Holland on June 30, 2014, 10:17:21 am
The problem however is access. Sure, the prince is allowed to voice his opinion. But he has easy access to the decisionmakers at Whitehall, much easier than a person in, say, Manchester who perhaps has an even better suggestion that would benefit more people than Charles' ideas. But the guy from Machester can't just call an MP or a member of the government. Charles can.

Now he can't help it that politicians are perhaps more inclined to listen to him, that is the problem of the politician. But he can make sure to use his easy access and priviledged position wiser and at less controversial subjects.

It is just like in the US where wealthy people can now donate undisclosed and unlimited amounts of money to super-PAC's and individual candidates. That money buys them access, it buys them time to make their point. And that time isn't given to someone who is trying to cope on a minimum wage. And although the system is still 1 man - 1 vote but access is far more important and efficient than just a vote on election day.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on June 30, 2014, 10:32:39 am
He cannot pressure politicians on what to do. No one has elected him. Politicians are chosen by the country to do their job not to let Charles whatever he wants.

If he works like that now imagine if he is king.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Countess of Holland on June 30, 2014, 11:11:11 am
To pressure a politician is indeed out of the question. But as King he has, in the words of philosopher Bagehot, the right to be consulted, the right to warn and the right to encourage. So he can, in private, speak his mind. But publicly stating his opinion is out of the question, especially when King.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Rosella on June 30, 2014, 11:25:13 am
Of course ministers can listen to Charles's point of view, they can discuss and debate points of policy with him. However  Cabinet makes policy decisions in a Parliamentary system and in the end the politician will do what appears to be most advantageous for his party (and occasionally for the country.) That decision may or may not coincide with Charles's point of view. I can't see conclusions being reached in Cabinet simply because the Prince of Wales can mount a good argument on a particular issue.




Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on November 24, 2014, 11:30:43 pm
Charles has 'a right to privacy' over his letters to ministers: Government lawyers argue Prince's notes must not be published because they are part of training to be King
Publishing dozens of letters in which Prince Charles lobbied ministers would infringe his ‘freedom of expression’, the Government claimed today.

The heir to the throne’s correspondence with senior politicians on major issues of the day forms an important part of his training to become King and must remain confidential, lawyers argued.

Former attorney general Dominic Grieve ruled that 27 memos sent by the Prince to ministers in seven Whitehall departments putting forward his views about policy could not be released.

David Cameron and his Cabinet backed the decision even though they had not seen all of the letters, which date from when Tony Blair was prime minister.

But the Court of Appeal overturned the ban, finding that Mr Grieve did not have ‘reasonable grounds’ for blocking the disclosure of the correspondence.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2847407/Government-Supreme-Court-bid-block-publication-Prince-Charles-private-letters-ministers.html



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on November 25, 2014, 08:00:29 pm
If they were innocuous they wouldn't be so  afraid of showing them.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on March 26, 2015, 10:09:24 am
I hope this ruling means we will read them at last.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snowdrop on March 26, 2015, 11:02:40 am
^ I doubt it.  I was watching an interview with a lawyer on Sky News and apparently the Government could overrule this but the feeling was that as we are in the run-up to a General Election this would/could be put on the "back burner".

In any event, do we know how many letters there are?  If not we wouldn't know how many are still hidden.  There is no way PC would want his reputation damaged before becomg king - of course some would say it has already been damaged by this and other matters.  :laundry:.  this decision has come from the highest court in the UK but I'm afraid I don't have confidence in the RF complying with the law on this - I hope I am proved wrong


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Rosella on March 26, 2015, 11:34:07 am
I'm glad these letters are being published. Charles is an incorrigible meddler, and it is very wrong, imo, for the heir to the throne to be regularly writing to and lobbying ministers. Yes, he should be able to express concern about issues he cares about but that is were it should end. Take some advice from your mother Charles, and stop the constant interference.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on March 26, 2015, 12:37:20 pm
A statement from Clarence House in response to the Supreme Court's judgment on the Attorney General's appeal about the publication of letters written by The Prince of Wales to government ministers in 2004-2005

"This is a matter for the government. Clarence House is disappointed the principle of privacy has not been upheld."
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/media/our-view/statement-clarence-house-response-the-supreme-courts-judgment-the-attorney-generals



Prince Charles letters to be released after Supreme Court ruling
Attorney General's office acted unlawfully when it prevented their publication in 2012.
The newspaper sought disclosure of the letters, written to seven government departments between 2004-5.
The prince's office at Clarence House said it was "disappointed the principle of privacy had not been upheld".

Cameron called the ruling "disappointing" and said the government would now consider how best to release the documents.
He added: "This is about the principle that senior members of the royal family are able to express their views to government confidentially. I think most people would agree this is fair enough."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32066554


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Countess of Holland on March 26, 2015, 02:05:42 pm
Cameron brown-nosing again I see.

As for letters and opinion of the RF needing to be private...if Charles had wanted to keep his opinion private he should not have written those letters. But Charles didn't want to keep his opinion private and he used his easy access to press his opinions on members of the government, knowing all to well that for some mediëval fluke, his opinion will matter more to a MP of member of government than the opinion of Mrs. Jones from Grimsby.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 26, 2015, 03:42:33 pm
Can't Charles get it?

The UK government has a lot to worry about and he's busy trying to distract him with his tomes on how to handle a lack of privacy. Economic collapse, war, ISIS, general running of government, and of course, additional responsibilities like cleaning up the messes made by the RF is of course taking up time.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on March 26, 2015, 05:17:09 pm
I will never get this ... it's not like he doesn't meet those people in private so I doubt those letters will be as interesting as The Guardian hopes like boring as hell with The Prince talking about environment and architecture ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snowdrop on March 26, 2015, 06:59:20 pm
^ I doubt it very much it only avout architecture etc.  According to some former Labour ministers he has tried to persuade get previous governments to change their policies.  I should think at least some of his meddling concerns the funding of the RF - the accounts of which are kept secret yet it is our money they are spending.  Have a look on the Republican movement's website - it is quite an eye-opener

https://republic.org.uk/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=142&qid=665565


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Val on March 26, 2015, 09:46:27 pm
^

Thanks for the above link Snowdrop - yes, really eye opening.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on March 28, 2015, 07:26:35 am
^ I doubt it very much it only avout architecture etc.  According to some former Labour ministers he has tried to persuade get previous governments to change their policies.  I should think at least some of his meddling concerns the funding of the RF - the accounts of which are kept secret yet it is our money they are spending.  Have a look on the Republican movement's website - it is quite an eye-opener

https://republic.org.uk/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=142&qid=665565
Chucks has been Prince of Wales only for the past 40+years do you really think he would talk about certain things through letters? Really? The Republican movement is hardly objective when it comes to Chucks ... they seem bitter as what they wish will never happen ...


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snowdrop on March 28, 2015, 04:48:46 pm
^ No I don't think he would write about highly contentious matters in letters - these  probably relate to things like archtiecture, GM farming etc.  However it is well-known that he has had (and probably stll doeshave)  meetings with politicians and that he meddles in things he shouldn't.  Our government is democratically elected to work for the people and the good of the country - well that's how it's supposed to work and I realise we all know poiliticans have selective memories regarding their promises when elections are over - however it certainly not for any member of the RF to try and cahnge government policies to suit themselves.  He has lobbied long and hard about the way the monarchy is funded and tax breaks for the Duchy  of Cornwall.  None of this will probably be in any of the letters but  plenty of politicians write memoirs once they retire and more left-leaning Labour MP's would be only too happy to blow the whistle.  One day PC may well be king and this will come back to haunt him , if not before

As for the Republican movement - their membership numbers are increasing,  especially since the coming of the middletons.  I know people who have attended their meetings and they have been quite impressed - bitter was not a word ever used to describe them.  As for saying what they wish for will never happen - never say never !


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: AnaBolena on March 28, 2015, 08:00:18 pm
I think Charles needs something else to occupy his mind.  Understandably he'd be bored, I mean who waits this long to get their job?  I certainly don't wish HM gone, but gone from the top job might not be a bad idea with the Medds taking over.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: sandy on March 28, 2015, 08:39:36 pm
Charles has a job. He is heir to the throne, Prince of Wales and has responsibilities. He did not sit back waiting and he knows his mother was young when she gave birth to him and it would be a long wait. I doubt he wants to abdicate himself and if his mother abdicates there would be clamors for him to do so too. I doubt he would like that. If he needs something to occupy his mind, he can do more with charities, find more interests/hobbies and branch out. The Middletons cannot take over in any "royal" capacity. But they are still George's grandparents.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on March 28, 2015, 08:54:01 pm
He's done a great job, but his meddling over fashionable causes is just a huge distraction.

If he were heavily educated and trained to comment on REAL problems, then they wouldn't be such a bad thing, but the dip is promoting insane alternative medical therapies that have nothing to do with reality. This is a man who doesn't understand why organic food isn't served in hospitals.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Jane23 on March 28, 2015, 09:01:24 pm
^ No I don't think he would write about highly contentious matters in letters - these  probably relate to things like archtiecture, GM farming etc.  However it is well-known that he has had (and probably stll doeshave)  meetings with politicians and that he meddles in things he shouldn't.  Our government is democratically elected to work for the people and the good of the country - well that's how it's supposed to work and I realise we all know poiliticans have selective memories regarding their promises when elections are over - however it certainly not for any member of the RF to try and cahnge government policies to suit themselves.  He has lobbied long and hard about the way the monarchy is funded and tax breaks for the Duchy  of Cornwall.  None of this will probably be in any of the letters but  plenty of politicians write memoirs once they retire and more left-leaning Labour MP's would be only too happy to blow the whistle.  One day PC may well be king and this will come back to haunt him , if not before

As for the Republican movement - their membership numbers are increasing,  especially since the coming of the middletons.  I know people who have attended their meetings and they have been quite impressed - bitter was not a word ever used to describe them.  As for saying what they wish for will never happen - never say never !
I he meddling or expressing his opinion? Those are two different things ... yes he expressing an opinion is different than the average joe expressing his/her opinion but I don't see how it is a bad thing after all his job will be to advice the Government of the day and have meetings with the Prime Minister ... what would be Chuck's point if he can't help the causes close to his heart? At least the man is passionate unlike his oldest son!!! Now if I was a Republican that is the guy I would look out for!!!


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 13, 2015, 03:47:01 pm
Publication of the Prince Charles 'black spider' letters: live

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2015/may/13/publication-of-the-prince-charles-black-spider-letters-live

Release of Prince Charles's letters shows the point of freedom of information

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/release-of-prince-charles-letters-point-of-freedom-of-information-black-spider-memos

I think we are supposed to getting them today


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on May 13, 2015, 04:33:42 pm
Quote

An early read of the letters published so far shows Charles wrote to ministers with concerns on a range of issues including:

    Beef farming
    Mid-term review reforms are a set of reforms of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy
    Problems affecting workers in the dairy sector
    Resources available for armed forces
    Cherry Knowle Hospital
    Badger culling

Prince Charles also wrote to ministers:

    Inviting them to attend a conference on architecture to give them a perspective on “vital aspects” of urban design.
    Raising concerns over the “fate of sea birds” and “illegal fishing”.
    Addressing problems in schools in South Gloucestershire in relation to diets of pupils.
    To arrange meetings with charity representatives, including In Kind Direct, which redistribute products from companies to charities.
    Rebuilding historic buildings in Northern Ireland.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Stephanie on May 13, 2015, 06:48:44 pm
Personally I think these letters will make Chuck more popular then any PR campaign ever could.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: dianab on May 13, 2015, 10:17:20 pm
Prince Charles' letter on Chelsea Barracks plan was ignorant, says top architect
A leading British architect today rounded on Prince Charles over his involvement in the scrapped £3 billion Chelsea Barracks project.
Jack Pringle, former president of the Royal Institute of British Architects, said the Prince's interference was "completely unacceptable". Plans for Britain's most expensive housing development were scrapped last year after Charles wrote to site owner Qatari Diar opposing them

Mr Pringle said that the Prince's letter, which criticised modernist architect Richard Rogers, was "ignorant".

He said: "Charles's letter describes the scheme as brutalist but Richard Rogers is not a brutalist architect by a long chalk. The comment is unfair, ignorant and historically inaccurate.

"I think it is outrageous that he is interfering in this way. The Prince's interpretation of his role in a constitutional monarchy is completely unacceptable."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/prince-charles-letter-on-chelsea-barracks-plan-was-ignorant-says-top-architect-6754397.html

Charles's black spider letters: ferociously detailed plans wrapped in faux-naïf style
Heir to the throne’s letters reveal a fondness for archaisms, a tendency to sneak in extra points and a self-deprecating tone that doesn’t stop him pestering ministers
When someone tells you that they are “at a loss to understand” quite how something regrettable has happened, one knows that they probably aren’t; more likely, they understand only too well, or at least imagine they do.

When Tessa Jowell received Prince Charles’s letter about the less than ideal funding prospects for the conservation of Scott and Shackleton’s Antarctic huts, she probably knew that her correspondent wasn’t quite buying the line that, what with this all happening a long way away, it wasn’t really up to us to put our hands in our pockets.

“But, on the other hand” – that other hand being a staple of the determined letter-writer – “I thought there was something called ‘the Government of the British Antarctic Territory’ which must mean there is some British Territory to be ‘governed’!”. Indeed. How could one not be at a loss?

Prince Charles’s letters to the then prime minister and assorted secretaries of state are studded with this sort of self-deprecation – the extent to which it is of the “faux” variety is a matter of opinion, although one notes it is rarely accompanied by a withdrawal from the topic at hand.

More usually, the gesture towards any lack of credentials is followed by a ferociously detailed mapping out of the terrain and an equally clear-eyed plan for how the future might be approached. Not to mention the head-scratching, can-it-really-be-thus? exclamation marks that appear frequently.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/charless-black-spider-letters-ferociously-detailed-plans-wrapped-in-faux-naif-style

5. He made a joke about transparency law
Prince Charles joked about the Freedom of Information Act - the same law that enabled his letters to be published.

In a letter to Tony Blair dated February 24, 2005, Charles said: "It was very good to see you again the other day and, as usual, I much enjoyed the opportunity to talk about a number of issues.

"You kindly suggested that it would be helpful if I put them in writing - despite the Freedom of Information Act!"

6. He wanted to weaken laws restricting herbal medicine
The Prince has long been a supporter of so-called complementary medicine.

Many doctors criticise the methods due to the lack of medical evidence.

But Prince Charles described a European regulation to restrict practitioners of herbal medicine as like "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut".

In a letter to Tony Blair in February 2005, Charles said the European Union Directive on Herbal Medicinal Products was having a "deleterious effect" on the UK's complementary medicine sector by "effectively outlawing the use of certain herbal extracts".

The 2004 directive left many practitioners unregulated, forcing some products to disappear from the market.

The Prince added: "I think we both agreed this was using a sledgehammer to crack a nut."

10. Charles Clarke was a 'humble and obedient servant'
Prince Charles had correspondence with the then-education secretary about healthy eating in schools.

Mr Clarke replied by saying: "I too have heard anecdotal evidence that children's behaviour improves when they eat a healthy diet."

But it's the sign-off that's attracted people's attention.

It ended: "I have the honour to be, Sir, Your Royal Highness's most humble and obedient servant".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-letters-11-things-5692749?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: HRH Tiana of NOLA on May 13, 2015, 10:58:16 pm
I can't wait to hear (read) eveyone's thoughts on these.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: YooperModerator on May 13, 2015, 11:25:57 pm
Personally, I have a problem with this because he is not an elected official but one of influence.  It shows he has intense interest, though, so there's some balance but anything to do with the military I believe he should keep to himself.

The US Media has just started reporting this and, as usual, are cushioning it with "it might be a little dicey politically but he's not that important, really" kind of thing.  There are even some dodos who think that the monarchy still rules the government in England - commenters, not journalists.  And, hey, he's just a citizen like everybody else expressing his concerns and so forth, no big deal. That's Freedom!  But, when the English people try to explain a few light bulbs go off but not many.  I had to point out to one group that there is a Parliament that is elected, not the monarchy.  That was a kid, tho, but still.  Come on, people, read a book!  Ignorance angers me.



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 13, 2015, 11:47:19 pm
Thing is, there is no defined role of the heir or monarch, which leads to instability.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: dianab on May 14, 2015, 12:20:08 am
Says it all:
sharkyparky, Moscow, 1 hour ago
Simply because when you or I write, we will be ignored.. If you read the correspondence he gets highly grovelling responses highly detailed and it's quite simply abuse of his position. He owns land and businesses that could benefit from favourable policy decisions.. He lobbies for job for is friends and they MPs listen !! Because he can grant honours etc for them..it's awful. We have democracy for a reason, we fought and died...And he has a life of privilege because he was born.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079730/Charles-black-spider-letters-finally-revealed-10-years.html#ixzz3a3zKswYM
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

sharkyparky, Moscow, 5 minutes ago
Osm...The heir to the throne will become a monarch ...our monarch must be above politics..otherwise they are not worthy. It's not a legal matter ,it's a matter of suitable and just behaviour. Abuse of position and power is and should be beneath any monarch. We elect our administrators we don't breed them. He is free to have his opinions, but how dare he lobby my duely elected servants, and fight to keep them private ! Let him speak his mind from the platform we allow him to occupy openly and see how long that lasts.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079730/Charles-black-spider-letters-finally-revealed-10-years.html#ixzz3a3zPHKkJ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

sharkyparky, Moscow, 1 hour ago
With all the privilege in his life... Sorry but undemocractically influencing our GOVT policy is one he should not have ! When the monarchy is elected ..then they can have their say! Otherwise keep quiet! And be happy with money,privilege, no life pressures at all! If you want a say, then resign.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079730/Charles-black-spider-letters-finally-revealed-10-years.html#ixzz3a3zkZEA4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

someone, somewhere, 1 hour ago
But it isn't just your opinion when you're the King of England. And his letters have the air of someone who is issuing an order, not sharing their opinion. He clearly expects his opinion to become fact and his order to be followed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079730/Charles-black-spider-letters-finally-revealed-10-years.html#ixzz3a3zzfHN8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

someone, somewhere, 28 minutes ago
He will be. If you like what his letters are arguing for you probably wouldn't care but don't kid yourself - he isn't giving his opinion he is issuing what he thinks is an order that will be carried out. It's possible it's the same with the Queen, though, and you just don't know it because she doesn't put it in writing - or if she does you don't get to see it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079730/Charles-black-spider-letters-finally-revealed-10-years.html#ixzz3a407Mexx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: CarryingOn on May 14, 2015, 09:14:24 am
^ It does say it all. He should keep his nose out of things. He has an unfair advantage and no matter what anyone says, he's not some private citizen who doesn't really matter.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on May 14, 2015, 04:25:20 pm
Prince Charles's senior aide pulls apart Michael Crick's microphone as he tries to ask him question

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/11602561/Prince-Charless-senior-aide-pulls-apart-Michael-Cricks-microphone-as-he-tries-to-ask-him-question.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: YooperModerator on May 14, 2015, 04:52:50 pm
^Well, now.  There should be a job opening coming up for a Senior Aide to PC if anybody's interested. 


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on May 14, 2015, 07:37:02 pm
Shows a total lack of self control in public, and at the same time very revealing.  Why all the tension and etc if (a) nothing to hide and (b) if he is not still writing letters.  Talk about give the game away big time.  He needs to get rid of her, doing him no favours at all right now.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on May 14, 2015, 09:51:06 pm
Dimbo cameron on TV tonight defending the letters and said that they had put measures in force to keep letters private now and that he had had several meetings with chucky.  He should not be writing letters like that, let alone dimbo cameron putting measures in place to keep them private.  The rf need a good shake up and made to toe the line, getting beyond a joke now with all their lies, deceit and fraud.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 15, 2015, 01:31:09 am
Charles is not educated or experienced in anything beyond appearances and doing pet projects like building eco villages and of course, yammering via speeches. He is not educated or trained or experienced in economics or diplomacy or trade, or anything else of relevance. If these spider messages end up being brought more out into the open and he's been manipulating things behind the back of the public then of course, he should be pilloried. Among the long lines of his ancestors, he's the most pointlessly educated. In the past princes learned EVERYTHING, which is why it's a lifetime role. With all his time and money he should be MUCH better educated in trade, diplomacy, be trained and educated in economics and then he might be an asset as monarch.

As for Cameron, he should be working for the nation, not the Crown. When the Crown made sacrifices and took care of the country, the people respected the monarchy. Cameron should be bringing Charles to account and Charles is insanely lucky that it's not a Labor MP in power right now.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on May 15, 2015, 01:32:12 pm
I’m a Conservative, but Prince Charles’s lobbying shows the monarchy must go
Kate Maltby


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/14/conservative-prince-charles-lobbying-monarchy-black-spider?CMP=share_btn_fb

The British royal family is an age-old institution held in high esteem throughout much of the world. With a cuddly, unassuming old lady as their figurehead, the royals have clung to power for decades.

Now though, with the all too real prospect of King Charles III looming on the horizon, should we be worried that this family of patronising, privileged elitists has too much power?


http://www.konbini.com/en/lifestyle/topic_society/politics/down-with-the-monarchy/


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snowpea on May 16, 2015, 02:29:36 pm
Dimbo cameron on TV tonight defending the letters and said that they had put measures in force to keep letters private now and that he had had several meetings with chucky.  He should not be writing letters like that, let alone dimbo cameron putting measures in place to keep them private.  The rf need a good shake up and made to toe the line, getting beyond a joke now with all their lies, deceit and fraud.

Cameron is a dangerously stupid toady who should have just left his mouth shut. No, they shouldn't be writing letters like that, BUT he seems to show an interest and a care that is lacking in his stupid eldest son. Maybe good intentions, but he has to assume an air of neutrality.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on May 16, 2015, 08:17:11 pm
Stupid Charles has to understand that when he's messing with the neutrality, he's setting up his son William to be able to meddle, along with his nasty wife Duchess Kate, whose family is so determined to grab power that it's frightening. Charles isn't thinking of the future, he's thinking only of himself.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Snowpea on May 19, 2015, 02:49:00 pm
Stupid Charles has to understand that when he's messing with the neutrality, he's setting up his son William to be able to meddle, along with his nasty wife Duchess Kate, whose family is so determined to grab power that it's frightening. Charles isn't thinking of the future, he's thinking only of himself.

Seriously hope he leaves Billy to sink or swim.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: YooperModerator on May 19, 2015, 04:38:20 pm
There are a couple of untidy things going on here the more I think on it.  PC has been in a state of public impotence for so long that I can see how this makes him feel 'important'.  From what I can see, the prime minister or anybody listening to him pretty much toadies about but doesn't take action unless it's politically prudent to do so and would have anyway without PC butting in. 

However, as a non-elected official, what I don't get is instead of popping off these undoubtedly highly annoying missives, how about getting himself and his family fully engaged in the charitable arms of all of these issues?  That's his real job.  I could sit here all day long and write to Obama about Core Math and poverty in the US but instead I choose to petition the core math indoctrination whenever possible, support the local grade schools and volunteer with our local soup kitchens and give out food parcels through my church.  Community Activism if you will.  If I can do it, so can he. 

The problem with this is that it's kind of benign now but when he becomes King, if he outlives his mother (doubtful), he'll continue this but with more muscle.  I don't object to his interests; they are, mostly, admirable but it's a thin line he's walking on.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on June 04, 2015, 08:05:42 pm
Prince Charles's letters reveal hospital and building concerns
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33011471



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Tpearl on June 17, 2015, 02:56:53 am
Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: marion on August 30, 2015, 07:43:10 pm
More meddling from PC - I hope the Scottish government stand up to him unlike the wimp we have in Downing Street - Nicola Sturgeon seems like someone with a bit of backbone unlike call-me-dave

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216159/Black-spider-memos-Prince-Charles-lobbied-Alex-Salmond-stately-home-castle-Highlands-food-brand.html


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: marion on December 15, 2015, 06:47:31 pm
The Guardian has just reported the Republic's research  that shows Prince Charles is routinely given access to confidential Cabinet papers.

https://republic.org.uk/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=414&qid=1437364

Republic has written to David Cameron to demand the government stops giving Charles access to these papers as the documents would give Charles a major advantage when lobbying ministers. He would also benefit from access to market sensitive information without any need to disclose his financial interests.
The revelation came from the Cabinet Office 'Precedent Book' released to Republic's researchers under a Freedom of Information request. The research is part of a new Royal Secrets report to be launched this week. 

Graham Smith, Chief Executive Officer of Republic,  told the media today that "Charles has no legitimate need to see Cabinet papers at all. His political and private interests and the high degree of secrecy surrounding his lobbying mean there is a real danger this information can be abused without any possibility of accountability."


https://republic.org.uk/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=414&qid=1437364


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on December 15, 2015, 06:52:09 pm
Cameron won't stop Charles, he's too much of a toady to the royal family and it's not like he has the guts to stand up to HM and ask HM to put a stop to it. I do know that each time Charles meddles, it only gives more ammunition to his enemies and to the enemies of the institution of monarchy. I do think that if someone like Tony Blair gets into power, it won't be just the royal perks that get trimmed, but serious cuts against the RF themselves. Charles is making the BRF vulnerable to legitimate attacks against them.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: marion on December 15, 2015, 06:55:11 pm
ITA re Cameron - he's a useless waste of space if ever there was one. 

I think it would need a more left-leaning Labour leader to deal with the RF though - Corbyn would be the man to do it but he has about as  much chance of becoming PM as a snowball's chance in hell


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on December 15, 2015, 07:41:03 pm
The last time the Windsors ended up making such a mess of things, Blair was elected. It is likely that a radical reformer could be elected and start snipping away at the Windsor's meddling and of course, expose Charles' meddling and have the Cambridges brought into line. Cameron needs to stop worrying about the Windsors and start worrying about the country. Charles himself is out of control and is someone who is only setting himself up for a backlash.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: meememe on December 15, 2015, 08:53:40 pm
It has been normal practice throughout the 20th century and even earlier for the heir to the throne to see the same papers as the monarch, except for the most sensitive ones.

There are photos of the then Princess Elizabeth actually discussing the papers with her father when she was still in her teens and she did the same thing with both Charles and William as part of their training. Charles has to know what is going on unless they want a situation whereby he becomes King and knows nothing and has to take time to learn - meaning a stopping of the government while he gets up to speed.

One of the biggest criticisms of Queen Victoria was that she wouldn't let her heir see these papers but she did so in the late 1890s.

Edward VII had George V see them from the very beginning of his reign and George repeated the situation with Edward VII.

This isn't even newsworthy as it is common practice and has been for ages.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Kuei Fei on December 15, 2015, 10:09:57 pm
This isn't just viewing papers, he's actively trying to tell ministers how the country should be run.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: meememe on December 15, 2015, 10:33:05 pm
Which every citizen has the right to do.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Emperor on December 16, 2015, 01:36:13 am
^ Not a member of the royal family .


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: meememe on December 16, 2015, 04:01:47 am
Most definitely including members of the royal family - most of whom are also eligible to vote (Camilla, Kate, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Sophie, Anne, Birgitte, Katherine, Michael and Marie-Christine are all HRHs but all have the right to vote as they are commoners).

The Queen makes her views known and it was reported in the late 1990s that she told Mr Blair that she wouldn't sign legislation that removed some of her powers - so the legislation wasn't even brought before the parliament. She interferes a lot more than we are told and Charles does nothing more than he is allowed to do - as do his sons and siblings as well.

They have the same rights as any other citizen with regard to contacting ministers of the government and expressing their points of view.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: marion on December 16, 2015, 12:36:08 pm
The RF are not supposed to meddle in politics and the fact the ER does too doesn't make what PC does right.  He is only interfering for his own advantage, as does ER.  His meddling probably wouldn't be seen as a problem if he was doing so with the best interests of his future subjects in  mind.  We can all vote and write to MP's etc but none of us have the clout PC and ER do - they should butt out.  

In cases like this I wish for a real left-leaning PM like Corbyn


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on December 16, 2015, 03:55:46 pm
^Correct, they are not meant to meddle in politics, that is what we are always told, hence all the trouble gone to to release chucky´s letters, and we can see now why he did not want us to see them.  He probably gets a say in  many things but we just don´t get to hear about them, but now we know it is happening, confirmed as well.  If they were allowed to meddle in politics and it was confirmed public knowledge then there is the little question of why was it kept secret.  If things are legitimate and above board you have no need to them.  A lot of their little secrets coming out now, and long over due.


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Fly on the wall on December 16, 2015, 11:12:42 pm
Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt

The BBC has learnt that the Duke of Cambridge does receive Cabinet papers. He is given them occasionally.
Cabinet Office: "The Duke of Cambridge is a senior member of the royal family and future heir to the throne and therefore of course ...
Prince William is given the gov documents to help him understand the workings of Whitehall and to prepare him for when he is King



I wonder if i want to be  Normal William understands what he's reading .I'm sure Charles does . It is more scary that William gets a hold of them then Charles


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: marion on December 16, 2015, 11:16:05 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35116875



Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Akasha 85 on December 17, 2015, 04:36:58 pm
I tottally agree with you fly wills imatureness and gov papers dont mix


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Alexandrine on December 17, 2015, 05:49:06 pm
It's normal that Charles gets info. He's the heir and the Queen is 90. Anything can happen in a day.

But there's a difference between getting privileged knowledge and using it and his position to influence elected politicians.

 


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: gingerboy24 on April 03, 2016, 01:37:55 pm
Ministers rapped for keeping Prince Charles' letters secret

SCOTLAND’S information watchdog has found the Scottish Government guilty of breaching freedom of information law by keeping ‘black spider’ letters from Prince Charles secret.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14400609.Ministers_rapped_for_keeping_Prince_Charles__letters_secret/


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Akasha 85 on June 24, 2016, 07:14:19 pm
Why didn't the idiot just write the notes on self igniting paper?
or send highly encrypted e-mails through a dummy account.
He should have watched more Bond movies, smuck!

It's such a no-brainer really
If you want do something naughty/ risky that anyone might use against you at some point you:
A think very hard on whether it's worth the risk
B get rid of potential evidence afterwards
C make sure you have plausible deniability, a potential scapegoat to take the fall and get a solid alibi

Really Charles, 60+ years in the RF and you still don't know the basic's....color me disappointed!
Tsk tsk tks!  bignono


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: HRH Tiana of NOLA on June 26, 2016, 02:44:30 am
^One word: HUBRIS


Title: Re: Charles lobbies Ministers - Now the letters must be made public
Post by: Akasha 85 on June 26, 2016, 05:57:00 pm
Just to be clear my last post was pure snark and sarcasm.
He is an idiot to write and stick his nose where it doesn't belong.